[biturbodieselRO]

Hello guys! How are you? I am going to make a quick notice about a problem i encountered a few days ago, starting with a check engine light(CEL). The CEL after a quick diagnosis revealed a malfunctioning swirl flap actuator(signal too low). Went to the dealership and they discovered enormous carbon deposits on the intake manifold. I will attach some photos, so they can speak for themselves.
Also, the car is IMO very well maintained(86.000km...53.000 miles) with original oil changes at 8000 km(aprox. 5000miles)+all filters at the dealership, i had the car since new and i only filled it up with premium diesel(CN=55+no biodiesel+premium additives). Moreover i have been squeezing the juice out of it, so no slow driving related deposits.
Please feel free to reply or PM me to give you more details.
530D XDrive B57 engine

P.S: coolant leaks from the EGR(coolant low warning...adding up coolant etc.) into the air intake and combined with the EGR recirculated gasses it creates sludge, carbon deposits and many more problems. Please take care and inspect your diesel cars to avoid this problem.

[raduron10]

Wow that does look like a mess, if you allow me a joke, maybe the problem was that you changed the oil too often at 8000 km. BMW says every 30 000 km.

On a serious note, what solution to this did they give you ?

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by raduron10

Wow that does look like a mess, if you allow me a joke, maybe the problem was that you changed the oil too often at 8000 km. BMW says every 30 000 km.

On a serious note, what solution to this did they give you ?

Haha LONG-LIFE

Hello! They told me that a new intake manifold is required, due to the fact that the swirl flap shaft has a play(aprox. 1500 euro-no labour included)...new swirl flap actuator and cleaning the intake valve ports. Due to the fact that the car has under 100k km maybe I will get a good-will warranty...or maybe not, i'll update the post when I have some news.

They gave me a solution but no cause! "we don't know why, we will sort it out".

Until then check with a boroscope through the throttle body. It's an easy DIY to avoid any problems

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by biturbodieselRO

Haha LONG-LIFE

Hello! They told me that a new intake manifold is required, due to the fact that the swirl flap shaft has a play(aprox. 1500 euro-no labour included)...new swirl flap actuator and cleaning the intake valve ports. Due to the fact that the car has under 100k km maybe I will get a good-will warranty...or maybe not, i'll update the post when I have some news.

They gave me a solution but no cause! "we don't know why, we will sort it out".

Until then check with a boroscope through the throttle body. It's an easy DIY to avoid any problems

The fact the deposits are so wet, indicates to me, either a lot of short trips, (cold engine), or it is due to the EGR failure you refer to.

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The fact the deposits are so wet, indicates to me, either a lot of short trips, (cold engine), or it is due to the EGR failure you refer to.

Hello! No short trips for this car, a minimum of 70km/day (80%outside 20% inside city), never heard a "missed" DPF regen(cooling fans running after cutting off the engine). Also, as a habit of mine, I take the car every two weeks on the highway 180 km/h for more than 1h...Just to stretch it's legs . Maybe some condensation from starting the car early in the morning after a night outside the dealer, or coolant as you said...although I haven't added any since I've changed it...more than 6 months ago. It dropped to a certain level in the first days and it stays there since.

[raduron10]

Depending on your relationship with the particular dealer they should help you out, at least they should pay for the labor considering you had all the service done at them.

Keep us posted, I wish you luck.

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by raduron10

Depending on your relationship with the particular dealer they should help you out, at least they should pay for the labor considering you had all the service done at them.

Keep us posted, I wish you luck.

Thank you! I'll update the post every now and then. Tomorrow I will get an answer from BMW and i hope it will be positive.

[CnSky]

Maybe related and could help, I had a similar issue with an E92 diesel 320 in 2011 only 60km on the clock, well maintained and long commuter drives daily.

BMW eventually found that a sensor in the exhaust system was out of limits but not throwing a fault until they updated the software. It then kicked a fault.

Seems it must agree with a second sensor in the exhaust system for the EGR system to work properly and resulted in a huge carbon build up.

Luckily they found it early enough and a removal and clean solved it all.

[biturbodieselRO]

Hello guys. As i said, I will update the situation. BMW after 2 weeks of insisting and negotiations gave me 60% off for the intake manifold(at first they gave me nothing). Rounded up, it was about 600€ to get the car sorted and the intake manifold changed+swirl flap actuator, the valve ports cleaned. As per the EGR, it seems that the tests were ok, no leaks, no pressure drop(crystal clean on the inside...no coolant inside, no carbon deposits), all the parameters verified and in order. Thank you for the awesome support and ideas! Have a great day!

[raduron10]

Great I am happy you resolved the issue.
Have fun driving now.

[MikeyMike7]

I have a similar issue. Error code says swirl valve position sensor out of physical limits. The car was already back at the dealer a year ago for a recall for possible leaking EGR coolant in the intake system. Now of course this has nothing to do with the current fault according to the dealer.
The thing is that when I reset the fault the motor runs more smooth at idle. I have taken off the actuator motor and that still works. Also the swirl valve actuator rod operates easily. So everything seems to be OK.

It is just that the last learned value in the adaptation values (720mV) is higher than the value when the car is turned off or when accelerating hard (flaps (edited to) open , 410mV). See screenshots.
Can anybody tell me if this is due to a faulty actuator motor (is the position sensor inside the actuator motor?) or can this be fixed by new adaption values, or?

.

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike7

I have a similar issue. Error code says swirl valve position sensor out of physical limits. The car was already back at the dealer a year ago for a recall for possible leaking EGR coolant in the intake system. Now of course this has nothing to do with the current fault according to the dealer.
The thing is that when I reset the fault the motor runs more smooth at idle. I have taken off the actuator motor and that still works. Also the swirl valve actuator rod operates easily. So everything seems to be OK.

It is just that the last learned value in the adaptation values (720mV) is higher than the value when the car is turned of or when accelerating hard (flaps closed , 410mV). See screenshots.
Can anybody tell me if this is due to a faulty actuator motor (is the position sensor inside the actuator motor?) or can this be fixed by new adaption values, or?

.

Well, the swirl flap actuator has "path feedback" and even the slightest error (5-10% difference between "desired position" and "actual position" throws a CEL). These type of errors don't actually indicate the exact problem, but a "review" of the situation. If you have ISTA and you can run a full test of the swirl flaps, the graph will show you the difference. It's about the delay in action. Moreover, check between the swirl flap actuator and the intake manifold for leaks(black goo) or diesel smell in that area. Also, the actuator itself rarely gets damaged or "underperforms".
Furthermore, the EGR is a fundamental problem. No dealer whatsoever will actually tell you, or agree to you, that the fins in the EGR cooler have pores that get dilated when hot(coolant consumption when no other leak is visually detected) . No pressure test(or just 5% of them) made at the dealer will identify the leaking pore in the EGR. Only if you have a very good relationship with the mechanic and the service consultant, will get you the EGR changed with a new part(the coolant leak is inside the cooler not on the outside so it's not visible by naked eye or by endoscope) I will also add that, even though they will check the EGR both ways-from the intake/exhaust manifolds sides(the leak is somewhere between the fins so no visual aspect of it due to the fact that it gets burned both sides).
If I can help you more, don't hesitate.

[TEF]

The four and six cylinder BMW diesel sold in the US have been the subject of a recall for ERG Cooler leaks. There have been reports that a coolant leaks can case engine fires. My 2016 X3 28d has been part of a recall campaign for the last two three years as BMW promises to install a redesigned EGR cooler once it knows how. In the meantime, both the F25 and F10 diesels continued to be inspected by dealers for leaks. Thus far, both of my cars are on their second dealer recall.

While I have no proof for this, there seems to be theory that these BMW diesels benefit from high speed use as it supposedly reduces the the soot build up.

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by TEF

The four and six cylinder BMW diesel sold in the US have been the subject of a recall for ERG Cooler leaks. There have been reports that a coolant leaks can case engine fires. My 2016 X3 28d has been part of a recall campaign for the last two three years as BMW promises to install a redesigned EGR cooler once it knows how. In the meantime, both the F25 and F10 diesels continued to be inspected by dealers for leaks. Thus far, both of my cars are on their second dealer recall.

While I have no proof for this, there seems to be theory that these BMW diesels benefit from high speed use as it supposedly reduces the the soot build up.

The recall which causes fire is global and it's about a pipe which leaks coolant (visual inspection confirms this). There is no recall on the EGR, but an "INFO" tag. This tag is a customer complaint related recall. Some versions of F series cars have the older engine n47 and the new-leaking-EGR and some the newer engine B47+coolant consuming EGR. Since the "semi facelift" of the g30 approx 2019(almost all Diesel engines all Gseries and F series facelift) have the newer-not leaking-EGR. Also, a recall on blocked EGR valve which causes the melted intake manifold.

[MikeyMike7]

Thanks biturbodieselRO for the info.

Path feedback meaning?
I don't think it has feedback on the position other than a sensor in the actuator motor (at least looking at the swirl flaps removal video's there is no other sensor).
The actuator rod runs in a warped (don't know the English word) opening / slot, so it cannot really move out of physical limits anyway.
So the issue seems to be low voltage. 410mV is lower than the learned lowest value of 740mV.

Is it the actuator motor causing this?
I read something about resetting the adaptation values, but my garage could not find a way to do that in ISTA

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike7

Thanks biturbodieselRO for the info.

Path feedback meaning?
I don't think it has feedback on the position other than a sensor in the actuator motor (at least looking at the swirl flaps removal video's there is no other sensor).
The actuator rod runs in a warped (don't know the English word) opening / slot, so it cannot really move out of physical limits anyway.
So the issue seems to be low voltage. 410mV is lower than the learned lowest value of 740mV.

Is it the actuator motor causing this?
I read something about resetting the adaptation values, but my garage could not find a way to do that in Vida.

Hello! Well long story short path feedback means that somehow the ECU and the flap actuator will know if there is some play in that shaft which holds the swirl flaps. A guy on YouTube, Vlasov(Russian video) actually has a detailed video from which you will get the general idea(I don't know Russian but the pictures were elocvent enough to get the idea). He is the only one which has "fixed" the intake manifold and the codes regarding the actuator.

Unfortunately, BMW even though has improved some parts of the intake manifold, the last flap from cyl 6 rests on the intake manifold itself and it creates a slight wear, thus creating shaft play at the end(axial play). Moreover, the shaft being made from aluminium, it gets somehow rounded at every valve port(where it meets the intake manifold), thus creating more play(up and down play). The soot itself works as a "helper" to limit shaft play, but if you think about ultrasonic cleaning or nut blasting, the situation will get worse.
I had an axial play of about 2mm(permanent CEL) and a friend of mine has tried to clean the intake manifold and change the actuator, but no improvement(100km no CEL, but after a lot of visible vibration in the actuator and after checking the intake manifold without the actuator the play was immense in all directions). I will attach some videos and links.

If you have the possibility to get a different actuator(new OE part is a must), try it out, but this method was tried and tested here but no succes at all. Be sure to have an extended return policy
A German guy got away with cleaning the intake and changing the actuator, but no update since then. The possibility to buy a 300$ actuator and to get a CEL after a month is pretty high(+new intake manifold 1500$).
A friend who works as a BMW master tech since '95 told me that 95% of time the actuator errors are intake manifold errors(shaft related, wear related).
I hope that your error is a matter of electrical gremlins inside the actuator (and not everything else). Don't buy advices like change the cables because of heat they don't work as well(if that would be, the whole "tree" would light up your dash).

Again, find someone with ISTA, because the problem consists in delayed action time. The testing graph should be with almost perfect rectangular peaks, and the delay would appear as a rounded-delayed peak.

Thank you. If I can help more, anytime!



My intake manifold: https://eu.citnow.com/vtSL_nPwpQr

My friends' intake manifold: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CxE...aO2cU_w-DGpRuH
*sorry for the adjacent cursing and talking

The vlasov Video:

[MikeyMike7]

Originally Posted by biturbodieselRO

Hello! Well long story short path feedback means that somehow the ECU and the flap actuator will know if there is some play in that shaft which holds the swirl flaps. A guy on YouTube, Vlasov(Russian video) actually has a detailed video from which you will get the general idea(I don't know Russian but the pictures were elocvent enough to get the idea). He is the only one which has "fixed" the intake manifold and the codes regarding the actuator.

Unfortunately, BMW even though has improved some parts of the intake manifold, the last flap from cyl 6 rests on the intake manifold itself and it creates a slight wear, thus creating shaft play at the end(axial play). Moreover, the shaft being made from aluminium, it gets somehow rounded at every valve port(where it meets the intake manifold), thus creating more play(up and down play). The soot itself works as a "helper" to limit shaft play, but if you think about ultrasonic cleaning or nut blasting, the situation will get worse.
I had an axial play of about 2mm(permanent CEL) and a friend of mine has tried to clean the intake manifold and change the actuator, but no improvement(100km no CEL, but after a lot of visible vibration in the actuator and after checking the intake manifold without the actuator the play was immense in all directions). I will attach some videos and links.

If you have the possibility to get a different actuator(new OE part is a must), try it out, but this method was tried and tested here but no succes at all. Be sure to have an extended return policy
A German guy got away with cleaning the intake and changing the actuator, but no update since then. The possibility to buy a 300$ actuator and to get a CEL after a month is pretty high(+new intake manifold 1500$).
A friend who works as a BMW master tech since '95 told me that 95% of time the actuator errors are intake manifold errors(shaft related, wear related).
I hope that your error is a matter of electrical gremlins inside the actuator (and not everything else). Don't buy advices like change the cables because of heat they don't work as well(if that would be, the whole "tree" would light up your dash).

Again, find someone with ISTA, because the problem consists in delayed action time. The testing graph should be with almost perfect rectangular peaks, and the delay would appear as a rounded-delayed peak.

Thank you. If I can help more, anytime!



My intake manifold: https://eu.citnow.com/vtSL_nPwpQr

My friends' intake manifold: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CxE...aO2cU_w-DGpRuH
*sorry for the adjacent cursing and talking

The vlasov Video:

Ok so that doesn't seem very good news.

I can buy a refurbished intake manifold with actuator motor for 300 euro on ebay. Maybe that is worth a try?

[biturbodieselRO]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike7

Ok so that doesn't seem very good news.

I can buy a refurbished intake manifold with actuator motor for 300 euro on ebay. Maybe that is worth a try?

Hello! Firstly, ISTA and test the swirl flaps. Secondly, try finding an actuator which is in a good working condition and try it out. Repeat the tests with ISTA. Lastly, if there is no improvement or temporary improvement with the known working actuator, go ahead and take out the intake, inspect it and change it. From my POV, having a refurbished one is a 50/50 chance of finding one in perfect working state. This is your call.

If you do have a good relationship with a shop, you can go ahead and start the process of finding the bad link(part). In most cases, a bad intake manifold with a new actuator will light up CEL somewhere between a few hundred km or a week. FCPEuro has a nice return policy or AutoDoc24(Europe-for a modest cost like 10$/€ will give you a 60/90 day return policy for whatever the reason, will give you all the money back).

Also, try a dealership with good reputation. Here the test and diagnostic costed me 70€. On the big parts, the dealer doesn't have a enormous profit margin. They have(at least here, at my dealer) the intake at 1300-1400€(same on the internet-as a stand-alone part) and I am sure that if you go a little bit "unhappy" about the car and situation they will give you support in resolving the problem. They may give you a discount/working hours/diagnostics for free. Be sure that, if you go to the dealership, your BMW is maintained and checked by them or another bmw dealer(so the maintenance in the electronic history appears to be made by BMW)

Attached you have a graph with the before mentioned problem. Delayed action time.

Be sure that you check thoroughly the part number on the intake manifold. There is a old part number(with 2 subtypes RDE and non-RDE) and one new part number also with RDE/non-RDE. RDE stands for Real Driving Emissions. The RDE one is made for lower powered B57(245hp) for countries like Belgium. Non-RDE is what you are looking for.

I hope this helps

Have a great day!

[MikeyMike7]

Maybe this fix will work for me?

https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1529853

[pepitko]

Just out of curiosity, is your car stock or do you have a ECU tune?

[babyfaby]

Originally Posted by pepitko

Just out of curiosity, is your car stock or do you have a ECU tune?

That's THE question!

[babyfaby]

Originally Posted by biturbodieselRO

Hello! Firstly, ISTA and test the swirl flaps. Secondly, try finding an actuator which is in a good working condition and try it out. Repeat the tests with ISTA. Lastly, if there is no improvement or temporary improvement with the known working actuator, go ahead and take out the intake, inspect it and change it. From my POV, having a refurbished one is a 50/50 chance of finding one in perfect working state. This is your call.

If you do have a good relationship with a shop, you can go ahead and start the process of finding the bad link(part). In most cases, a bad intake manifold with a new actuator will light up CEL somewhere between a few hundred km or a week. FCPEuro has a nice return policy or AutoDoc24(Europe-for a modest cost like 10$/€ will give you a 60/90 day return policy for whatever the reason, will give you all the money back).

Also, try a dealership with good reputation. Here the test and diagnostic costed me 70€. On the big parts, the dealer doesn't have a enormous profit margin. They have(at least here, at my dealer) the intake at 1300-1400€(same on the internet-as a stand-alone part) and I am sure that if you go a little bit "unhappy" about the car and situation they will give you support in resolving the problem. They may give you a discount/working hours/diagnostics for free. Be sure that, if you go to the dealership, your BMW is maintained and checked by them or another bmw dealer(so the maintenance in the electronic history appears to be made by BMW)

Attached you have a graph with the before mentioned problem. Delayed action time.

Be sure that you check thoroughly the part number on the intake manifold. There is a old part number(with 2 subtypes RDE and non-RDE) and one new part number also with RDE/non-RDE. RDE stands for Real Driving Emissions. The RDE one is made for lower powered B57(245hp) for countries like Belgium. Non-RDE is what you are looking for.

I hope this helps

Have a great day!

Maybe you have a strong delay because of a clogged intake manifold.
Did you already remove the intake manifold to check the carbon build up?