03-02-2020, 02:37 PM | #23 | ||
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Viffermike1753.00 |
03-02-2020, 02:39 PM | #24 |
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I have driven by brothers manual Wrangler enough to know that it is one of the worst things on this Earth. By SUV I meant something that can tow and fit 5+ people easily, while also having the BASIC of interior niceties. Wranglers are incredibly bare bones.
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03-02-2020, 02:40 PM | #25 | |
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But what you described actually sounds more like an E63 Touring. Just get it in bandaid color and put a green taxi sign on it. |
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03-02-2020, 02:43 PM | #26 | |
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At some point I will let Electric Uber take me places. But today is not the day. There is a Fun to a Manual which can not be understated. Executing a heal-and-toe well is super rewarding. Pulling a level does nothing to raise your pulse.
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03-02-2020, 02:44 PM | #27 |
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That's why the daily is a $2000 30 year old Miata. Fun as it is, it's main purpose is cheap transportation. $3.60 a month for insurance, 28 mpg, and valued at less than most peoples wheel setups on this forum. Ultimate appliance, even if it does sit at 4000 rpm on the highway and rattle my teeth out.
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03-02-2020, 02:59 PM | #28 | |
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That 'man pedal' ain't what makes me one. Sorry to hear it's what makes you one.
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03-02-2020, 03:27 PM | #29 | |
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BUT (and here's where I disagree with you)-- as long as a MT is available *in a vehicle I like*, with the *motor I like*, I'll lean in that direction. It's not "resisting"-- it's enjoying a skillset that I've spent my entire adult life learning. My wife has an Acura RDX-- it's a fine SUV. All sorts of bells and whistles. It's faultless and bombproof. It's also about as exciting as a can of paint to drive. By comparison, my 2005 Honda Element (one of the VERY few MT's in that model) is a total hoot with its third pedal (at least as much as a small SUV can be). I look at it in comparison to the Airbus and Boeing philosophies of designing aircraft. Airbus does everything in its power to take the pilot out of the equation while Boeing still leaves the pilot in control (you can kill ALL of the magic in a Boeing-- not so in an Airbus). Is the Airbus 320 (i.e. a flying Tesla) a better passenger hauler than the Boeing 737 (i.e. a MT w/ power windows)? From a passenger and ease of flying standpoint-- probably. But, at the end of the day, the Boeing still requires you to have "stick and rudder" skills, do a lot of stuff manually, and it's much more fun to fly when you kick the autopilot and auto throttle off. My buddy's an Airbus captain and he drives nothing but automatics (he LOVES his Tesla). I'm a 737 Captain who drives nothing but manual's. There's probably a reason that we each fly what we fly. R. Last edited by flybigjet; 03-02-2020 at 03:38 PM.. |
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03-02-2020, 03:37 PM | #30 | |
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And while I don't disagree with your bigger point (modern automatics are more efficient and easier to use) I disagree with the idea that they are a superior transmission for sports cars. Everyone thinks the point of fast cars is to go fast. That's not the point of them at all. Sports cars are only fast because going fast is fun. A manual may be slower, but if a driver enjoys it more and the primary mission of that vehicle is to be entertaining, it's the superior piece of kit. That said, there are people who actually enjoy a nice paddle shifted setup over a manual. Nothing wrong with that either. Different strokes for different folks. |
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03-02-2020, 03:49 PM | #31 | |
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Last edited by Conissah; 03-03-2020 at 03:48 PM.. |
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03-03-2020, 12:37 PM | #32 | |
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My first vehicle was an automatic, and everything after that has been a manual. How do you and your wife like the RF? I would really like to add one to my stable at some point.
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03-03-2020, 01:10 PM | #33 | |
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Me? I can't fit in the damn thing. I'm 6' with a very tall (37.5") torso, and it's Unfun for me to wiggle myself into it, and then I damn near need a can opener to get out. I do NOT fit in it at all with the top up-- with the top down, I feel like a golden retriever with his head out the window. That being said, I've driven it a few times (to the PPF place) and it's a full-on hoot to drive. And the MT shifter might just be the best on the planet. My wife got the GT-S package-- if you get an RF, I'd *really* recommend it. upgraded Bilstein struts (and my wife has *zero* interest in modding her car), a blacked out roof panel, and most importantly? A LSD. *That* was why I talked her into the package. R. |
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03-03-2020, 01:29 PM | #34 |
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As a 6'2" person who had an NB, rip out the sun visors, see if the seat rails have a stop preventing the seat from going all the way back and consider removing some of the seat foam. I did all of those and went from uncomfortably tight to pretty livable.
I actually found the ND pretty roomy when I drove one, but didn't try the RF, maybe they're a little tighter? I did find that the Recaros are a good bit lower than the standard seats though. |
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03-03-2020, 01:35 PM | #36 | |
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This is more than just supply and demand, this is auto maker greed. |
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03-03-2020, 01:53 PM | #37 | |
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And tearing my wife's 'toy' apart? Baaaaaaad plan. It's actually the hardtop roof that I hit-- everything else is just cramped. I think maybe that the RF seats don't recline quite so far back as they had to make room for the motors, etc as well as the hardware/storage for the hardtop. Can't prove it-- but it sure feels that way. R. |
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03-03-2020, 01:54 PM | #38 |
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Greed is right, they're turning their backs on the die hards in favour of volume sales.
There's still brands that respect manual drivers, VW, Mazda, Hyundai, Subaru for a couple examples. Miata's are a majority manual, GTIs/Rs are 50/50ish, Hyundai's N sub-brand currently is 100% manual and their new G70 they intentionally made a low volume of manuals to test the waters. STIs are still all manuals. High or top trim level examples but still available in lower trims. |
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03-03-2020, 01:54 PM | #39 | |
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R. |
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03-03-2020, 02:05 PM | #40 | ||
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03-03-2020, 02:17 PM | #41 | |
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https://carbuzz.com/news/your-next-n...-backup-camera |
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03-03-2020, 03:55 PM | #42 | |
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![]() Thing is, it's not 'automaker greed'. It's economics. You do realize that every single model with a manual transmission must be certified independently for safety, emissions, etc. in every market it's sold in? Also: You do realize that developing a transmission -- even a relatively turnkey third-party solution from someone such as Getrag -- still takes millions to execute per model? Greed doesn't make, say, BMW pull manuals from the 3 Series, or not offer a manual across the Z4 range (much less the Zupra at all). It's simply too much of a financial gamble -- and one that most automakers have documented losses in as precedent. In the case of the 3 Series, it's a lack of consumer interest because of what the 3 Series is now, and the customer base it has now (and, thus, we have the M2 Comp). In the case of the Z cars, it's simply not produced in sufficient volumes to justify the R&D and cost up front. (Yeah, the base 20i has one available now in the EU. But that's the EU ... and, likely, an experiment by BMW.) Seriously: If either sold like hotcakes, you'd likely see a manual version at some point here. But I would guess, based on how things are going now, that we won't. Ever. And I'm not even going to get into why cars such as the C8 or the Alfa 4C aren't/didn't get manuals. Figure that out on your own. It really is pretty simple. (Hint: better!)
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03-03-2020, 04:07 PM | #43 | |
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Here's a counterpoint: I detest four-door cars. I have no use for one. When VW killed the three-door GTi (and never offered that in the R), I was not happy. I dealt with it and moved on. Similarly, I hate sedans. When Subaru killed the five-door WRX/STi, I was no happy. I dealt with it and moved on. (Disclosure: I've owned both. Both were manuals, too!) Manuals will eventually be killed from those cars, too. You and others won't be happy. Deal with it and move on ... or better yet, maybe learn to play with paddles now before you're actually forced to. That's the approach I decided to take, rather than limit my choices to what is on the list this thread was created to discuss.
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03-03-2020, 04:43 PM | #44 | ||
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