[Daniels1117]

I’ve been in the market for a carbon fiber front lip and side skirts for a while now. I was planning to just bite the bullet and order from RW carbon, as many people (including myself — m5cs spoiler and rear wheel arches) have done before. I spoke to a few guys in the parts industry and they basically told me that just about all the carbon fiber aftermarket parts come from China.

There’s companies like Rw carbon, twentytwotuning, aha carbon, and EZ carbon, etc. that charge like $650-900 for side skirts or a front lip. They claim they have a premium product but none of these companies have been able to clearly explain what makes their product premium. Seems to me that these CF companies are buying Chinese made stuff and rebranding/marketing and then double or tripling the price. To be fair I’ve contacted several of these companies directly and they have provided quick responses regarding pricing and availability. However, as mentioned I still haven’t really been told “we make our stuff in house using xyz technique…”

I was able to find the exact same stock pictures used on some of the “premium” brands sites for seemingly the same product on aliexpress/ebay. So is this the Chinese manufacturer taking the pics from the other brands or vice versa? There’s obviously some garbage coming out of china I’m not debating that, I found front lips for $50-120 that are “carbon look” aka plastic but I also found “real carbon fiber” front lips and side skirts for $220-400 (the same looking ones that are being sold for $859+ on competitors websites). Obviously I have no interest in buying the dirt cheap stuff that’s plastic but if I can get real carbon fiber for ~$250 instead of $850 what’s the catch?

Some people might say you’re paying the premium price for fitment and after ordering care, however several of these companies don’t offer any warranty anyways and there’s tons of horror stories regarding fitment issues from the high-end brands products. Furthermore, several of these “higher end Cf brands” don’t have parts in stock, why!? If they make them you’d expect them to have them, at least most of the time. My guess is they are importing them first, likely from the same Chinese manufacturers that we can buy direct from.

This isn’t an attempt to put anyone on blast I really just want to understand what I’m missing here? Is there actually a difference in quality between these products or are we really just dealing with effective marketing and rebranding of Chinese made carbon? Maybe someone with manufacturing experience can chime in and break this down for me!? The Chinese companies claim they use real molds taken from the actual vehicles to produce their products. I just want to order some respectable carbon fiber stuff to enhance the already amazing look of my vehicle.

I just figured that I would share my experience because I’ve been going back and fourth between a few options of where to order these parts and I know a few of you guys have gone through a similar experience when purchasing parts for your cars. I am far from the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to cars or the car industry in general. So I was just hoping to have someone who knows more about this topic than I do explain what may or may not be going on here.

[tjbuggy2b]

TL;DR

You'd be surprised how much carbon fiber AND higher-quality aluminum stuff in the world are "stickered" Chinese products. Hell, most of the wheels we buy, body kits, most of the bicycles in the world all come from china, Singapore, Malaysia, etc. Some of this stuff is the exact same part yourfind in a US based store, even sometimes claiming to be "made in the USA" due to some technicality that allows them to make that claim. Other stuff is junk.

------------------------------------------
Novel length explanation...

Sparked by an experiment to see how cheaply I could build up a good quality mountain bike if I wasn't paying for a logo, I went down a rabbit hole that surprised me. ....which then led me to researching how to get the same "high end" products for less than half the price on tons of otherwise expensive stuff. What I found is that a lot of times, if you dig enough, you can find what is likely the root manufacturer of products that are rebranded and up-charged by 40%-60%.

There are a couple ways this appears to go. First, an American company designs a product but manufacturing in the USA is crazy expensive. So, they offshore the production to China, et al. Sometimes this can be exclusive manufacturing for only that one company, or sometimes they will license away limited rights for re-branding or reselling for a discount on their own supply.

The second way is one of these manufacturing companies comes up with a good quality "commodity" design for which a US company enters into a licensing agreement to sell in the US.

Recently, I found what I believe to be the root manufacturer for an expensive piece of kit for one of my projects that would normally have cost ~$8000. I was able to order that kit from what I believe to be the actual factory for ~$3100, shipped to my door.

The bonus that I've found, when dealing with these Asian companies, is that usually you can get your stuff customized for free or a minimal upcharge. For instance, I once bought a set of wheels from China but was able to get their engineers to adjust the concavity profile just a touch, and got a custom brushed finish and paint color directly from the factory for no additional fee.

A lot of the price charged by US companies is a result of design, production, shipping costs, import fees, taxes, warehousing, sales teams, advertising, executive salaries, and (hopefully) tight quality tolerances. Then, they still have to have a profit margin. When you order directly from China, someone else paid for the design, shipping rates are probably reduced due to volume, there iare miniimal warehousing, advertising, or sales teams involved, and quality assurance is done in house.

The crucial thing, if you're considering going the Asian route, is to do your homework. No US company is going to divulge where they source their parts from, and it can be very difficult to find reliable information on the internet about the manufacturer. Once you think you've found a candidate for direct ordering, you usually have to piece together a small handful of comments, and really have an eye for the phraseology and verbiage used in the review you've been able to find, as well as the commentary on their website. Be ok with settling into a good email conversation with the company. It takes time, so you have to be patient. There are language barriers and time differences to deal with. ...even after all this, there still isn't a guarantee. You're making an educated guess but there is a leap of faith involved, here.

It should be stated, though, that sometimes your spidey sense tells you may be in legally or ethically ambiguous territory when dealing with these companies. Trust your gut and conscience.

Lastly, all of these obviously Chinese part being sold on Amazon, Ebay, etc... Whether their super cheap or really expensive, there is no way to know how good that product is going to be because you can't speak directly to the manufacturer. The reviews on these ads are not trustworthy. So, unless you have seen the product in person, it's a crap shoot.

[Daniels1117]

Originally Posted by tjbuggy2b

TL;DR

You'd be surprised how much carbon fiber AND higher-quality aluminum stuff in the world are "stickered" Chinese products. Hell, most of the wheels we buy, body kits, most of the bicycles in the world all come from china, Singapore, Malaysia, etc. Some of this stuff is the exact same part yourfind in a US based store, even sometimes claiming to be "made in the USA" due to some technicality that allows them to make that claim. Other stuff is junk.

—————————————————————
Novel length explanation...

Sparked by an experiment to see how cheaply I could build up a good quality mountain bike if I wasn't paying for a logo, I went down a rabbit hole that surprised me. ....which then led me to researching how to get the same "high end" products for less than half the price on tons of otherwise expensive stuff. What I found is that a lot of times, if you dig enough, you can find what is likely the root manufacturer of products that are rebranded and up-charged by 40%-60%.

There are a couple ways this appears to go. First, an American company designs a product but manufacturing in the USA is crazy expensive. So, they offshore the production to China, et al. Sometimes this can be exclusive manufacturing for only that one company, or sometimes they will license away limited rights for re-branding or reselling for a discount on their own supply.

The second way is one of these manufacturing companies comes up with a good quality "commodity" design for which a US company enters into a licensing agreement to sell in the US.

Recently, I found what I believe to be the root [...]

Thank you for this thoughtful reply I have some follow up questions. Check your DM.

[Joe-BMW33]

I'm pretty convinced all this CF aftermarket shit comes from the same place, China.

[Daniels1117]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

I'm pretty convinced all this CF aftermarket shit comes from the same place, China.

Yep I spoke to another industry guy today that reps several of these brands and he confirmed this.

[Orion12521]

Taiwan produces some of the finest carbon fiber products in the world. Pretty much every carbon fiber bicycle frame produced by the major bicycle manufacturers come from Taiwan. Trek was one of the last holdouts, continuing to produce their best high-end frames in house in Wisconsin, but even they found they were unable to achieve the same quality level and remain at a competitive price point when compared to the product coming out of Taiwan. Trek made the switch almost a decade ago.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by Orion12521

Taiwan produces some of the finest carbon fiber products in the world. Pretty much every carbon fiber bicycle frame produced by the major bicycle manufacturers come from Taiwan. Trek was one of the last holdouts, continuing to produce their best high-end frames in house in Wisconsin, but even they found they were unable to achieve the same quality level and remain at a competitive price point when compared to the product coming out of Taiwan. Trek made the switch almost a decade ago.

Well Taiwan will be part of China soon enough, so China it is.

[PetieD 7]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Well Taiwan will be part of China soon enough, so China it is.

I don’t think so…it will remain Taiwan indefinitely.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by PetieD 7

I don’t think so…it will remain Taiwan indefinitely.

I was joking, but let's hope so.