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      08-05-2019, 07:55 PM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
2JZ-GTE
a stock 2jz gte or is that a joke?

A stock 2jz gte made 315 whp at best and do we even want to talk about spool characteristics?

Or are you talking about the 1000 whp rebuilt / different turbo motors that didnt even come into existence until the early 2000s?
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      08-05-2019, 08:12 PM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
a stock 2jz gte or is that a joke?

A stock 2jz gte made 315 whp at best and do we even want to talk about spool characteristics?

Or are you talking about the 1000 whp rebuilt / different turbo motors that didnt even come into existence until the early 2000s?
If this is all you're coming with, this isn't an argument worth having. There's far more to an engine than mechanical power output and the boost curve. This is also coming from the clown that believes the M2C has a "race motor". Enjoy your evening buddy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I've said this once and I'll say this again... outside of name; why would anyone buy this instead of an M2 comp? why? why?

You can have an M2 comp at a few k msrp off and be close to supra price in a car that is only 1000x better, comes with a race motor; a DCT and a much better interior...
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      08-05-2019, 08:17 PM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
a stock 2jz gte or is that a joke?

A stock 2jz gte made 315 whp at best and do we even want to talk about spool characteristics?

Or are you talking about the 1000 whp rebuilt / different turbo motors that didnt even come into existence until the early 2000s?
If this is all you're coming with, this isn't an argument worth having. There's far more to an engine than mechanical power output and the boost curve. This is also coming from the clown that believes the M2C has a "race motor". Enjoy your evening buddy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I've said this once and I'll say this again... outside of name; why would anyone buy this instead of an M2 comp? why? why?

You can have an M2 comp at a few k msrp off and be close to supra price in a car that is only 1000x better, comes with a race motor; a DCT and a much better interior...
sounds like you're the one that should be coming with a better arguement yet I don't see it... oh yeah iron block lmao, closed deck...

B58 is only one of those and yet can still make 700 whp on a stock motor with 3 years of development not over 25...

Oh and race motor... yes an S55 is track tested and is created to be beaten on a track... to me that is defined as a race motor.
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      08-05-2019, 08:26 PM   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Dai is a beast. For comparison that is 2sec slower than stock GTR time set by Steve Millen 10+ years ago. Not bad for new Supra.
10 years later with the leaps and bounds made in auto tech, yet still 2 seconds slower is a good thing? I guess when you compare price points ok, but meh.

The Supra and GTR are supposed to be rivals, the fact Toyota couldn't come close in 10 years is a pretty big bummer.
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      08-05-2019, 10:00 PM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
10 years later with the leaps and bounds made in auto tech, yet still 2 seconds slower is a good thing? I guess when you compare price points ok, but meh.

The Supra and GTR are supposed to be rivals, the fact Toyota couldn't come close in 10 years is a pretty big bummer.
With modern tires and significantly less weight
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      08-05-2019, 11:22 PM   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
10 years later with the leaps and bounds made in auto tech, yet still 2 seconds slower is a good thing? I guess when you compare price points ok, but meh.

The Supra and GTR are supposed to be rivals, the fact Toyota couldn't come close in 10 years is a pretty big bummer.
The fact that Toyota couldn't make their own engine is even more disappointing.
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      08-06-2019, 08:48 AM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
10 years later with the leaps and bounds made in auto tech, yet still 2 seconds slower is a good thing? I guess when you compare price points ok, but meh.

The Supra and GTR are supposed to be rivals, the fact Toyota couldn't come close in 10 years is a pretty big bummer.
2020 Toyota Supra: Starts at $49,990
2020 Nissan GTR: Starts at $113,540


Stupid Toyota. Why didn't they build something even fewer people can afford!
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      08-06-2019, 09:35 AM   #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
2020 Toyota Supra: Starts at $49,990
2020 Nissan GTR: Starts at $113,540


Stupid Toyota. Why didn't they build something even fewer people can afford!
That 2 seconds was off the lap of a gtr 10+yrs ago
Gtr first went on sale for $69,850 back in July 2008
Not that far off from the launch edition zupra today
Btw a 2020 gtr would blow the doors off the zupra
They've gotten quite a bit of upgrades since 2008
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      08-06-2019, 10:36 AM   #933
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GTR sold at msrp then?, and as low as inflation think it would still up by at least 15% adj for inflation
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      08-06-2019, 10:45 AM   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
That 2 seconds was off the lap of a gtr 10+yrs ago
Gtr first went on sale for $69,850 back in July 2008
Not that far off from the launch edition zupra today
Btw a 2020 gtr would blow the doors off the zupra
They've gotten quite a bit of upgrades since 2008
Back when Nissan delivered a car that completely disrupted the status quo. They built their own car from the ground up that blew cars away 3x the cost. The C8 is creating that same disturbance from over a decade ago. After the long wait, the Zupra is a complete dud.
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      08-06-2019, 11:23 AM   #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
That 2 seconds was off the lap of a gtr 10+yrs ago
Gtr first went on sale for $69,850 back in July 2008
Not that far off from the launch edition zupra today
Btw a 2020 gtr would blow the doors off the zupra
They've gotten quite a bit of upgrades since 2008
Wait, a GT-R is faster? NO WAI!

And a $45k SS 1LE is faster around the track than a Zupra as well.

What's your point?


It seems some of you were expecting a $40k car that was going to keep up with Ferrari's or something.
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      08-06-2019, 12:17 PM   #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Wait, a GT-R is faster? NO WAI!

And a $45k SS 1LE is faster around the track than a Zupra as well.

What's your point?


It seems some of you were expecting a $40k car that was going to keep up with Ferrari's or something.
You're interpretation of the post is all wrong
I simply pointed out the lap times comparison was to a gtr back in 08
Which you compared a 2020 , which has a totally different msrp
Facts are out there for people to make their own conclusions
I don't have a horse in this race not do I have any expectations of the zupra , since I wouldn't buy one
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      08-06-2019, 12:40 PM   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
It seems some of you were expecting a $40k car that was going to keep up with Ferrari's or something.
Most Supra fans were expecting(or wanting) a car actually built by Toyota. Something in the $75-$85k range would have been ideal. Nissan did it in 2008, Toyota has no excuse with the amount of cash they have on hand. In 2008 Nissan provided a $69k car that blew the doors off 911 Turbo, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. Instead we got a hairdresser's BMW with a fixed roof and Supra badge.
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      08-06-2019, 12:51 PM   #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
It seems some of you were expecting a $40k car that was going to keep up with Ferrari's or something.
Most Supra fans were expecting(or wanting) a car actually built by Toyota. Something in the $75-$85k range would have been ideal. Nissan did it in 2008, Toyota has no excuse with the amount of cash they have on hand. In 2008 Nissan provided a $69k car that blew the doors off 911 Turbo, Ferrari, Lambo, etc. Instead we got a hairdresser's BMW with a fixed roof and Supra badge.
Can you imagine the crickets if they'd brought in an $80k Supra? They'd have sold a few thousand the first year and then none for however long it took to just kill it.

The C8 would have crushed it for $20k less, even if they'd have plugged, what, a V6TT in with 500hp? It wouldn't put the power down like a mid engine car, knowing Toyota it would have had a single clutch auto and been around 4K pounds. They won this round by just not participating.
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      08-06-2019, 01:01 PM   #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
After the long wait, the Zupra is a complete dud.
In what regard? The car fits nicely between the 370z/BRZ and the Cayman S price wise while having equitable performance of the Cayman S. It is actually a great car in that niche group.

Dud because it decided not to try to outgun the GTR and NSX? Yeah they definitely should have tried to replicate their 90's sales flop for sake of fanboy bragging rights.

And, dare I say it, Toyota walked into BMW's kitchen and baked a better BMW with BMW ingredients than BMW has in years.
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      08-06-2019, 01:33 PM   #940
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Lets face it...Toyota no longer has the engineering prowess to compete with the R35, either that or the balls to even try. They sell enough Tundra's and Tacoma's to fund a project to compete with their old JDM foe. They gave up after the LFA.
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      08-06-2019, 02:35 PM   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
You're interpretation of the post is all wrong
I simply pointed out the lap times comparison was to a gtr back in 08
Which you compared a 2020 , which has a totally different msrp
Facts are out there for people to make their own conclusions
I don't have a horse in this race not do I have any expectations of the zupra , since I wouldn't buy one
No it wasn't. I was pointing out that comparing a 10-year old, vastly more expensive car is a poor comparison. You'll notice I quoted you where you said:

"Btw a 2020 gtr would blow the doors off the zupra
They've gotten quite a bit of upgrades since 2008"

Which is why I pointed out the MSRP. I would certainly hope a car that has been produced and refined for more than a decade and is DRAMATICALLY more expensive would be faster.
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      08-06-2019, 02:38 PM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Can you imagine the crickets if they'd brought in an $80k Supra? They'd have sold a few thousand the first year and then none for however long it took to just kill it.

The C8 would have crushed it for $20k less, even if they'd have plugged, what, a V6TT in with 500hp? It wouldn't put the power down like a mid engine car, knowing Toyota it would have had a single clutch auto and been around 4K pounds. They won this round by just not participating.
Exactly. An $80-85k Supra? Sorry, I'm buying a Cayman S at that price point.

I'm pretty sure the largest automaker in the world understands what they are doing.

This is starting to sound like Jalopnik or GRM. "Why can't I have an AWD, manual wagon, makes 500hp, never needs maintenance for 300k miles, and only costs $20k new."
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      08-06-2019, 02:59 PM   #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Exactly. An $80-85k Supra? Sorry, I'm buying a Cayman S at that price point.

I'm pretty sure the largest automaker in the world understands what they are doing.

This is starting to sound like Jalopnik or GRM. "Why can't I have an AWD, manual wagon, makes 500hp, never needs maintenance for 300k miles, and only costs $20k new."
Well, at $50K-$60K, it looks like people are saying "Sorry, I'm buying a C8 at that price point." In fact, I'd probably still buy a regular Cayman over the current Supra.

I think the Supra would be more compelling if it was $85k, designed in house, and competed with the 911s and GTRs at a higher price point. Less Z4, more LFA.
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      08-06-2019, 03:11 PM   #944
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To the poster who said the Supra has 'equitable performance to a Cayman S': NOT. I literally laughed out loud when I read that.

Anyway ...

TMC isn't the largest automaker. It's one of the largest automakers. Right now, TMC, VW AG and Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi are basically neck-and-neck. GM and Korean Hyundai aren't that far behind, either ...

... which brings me to my point: BMW needed Toyota. Toyota did not need BMW. Yes, Toyota knows what it is doing -- and that hasn't been building world-topping high-performance sports cars since the days of, well, pretty much ever.

I've said this in several other places on this forum and others: the only reason Toyota races is for trickle-down benefits for its consumer products. This has been plainly stated in the company's mission statements since the 1950s. Why does that matter regarding the Supra? Toyota's recent major racing involvement includes NASCAR, WRC and WEC Hybrid/Hypercar. That's it -- nothing even remotely related to conventional sports cars.

That speaks volumes. Volumes.

I'm as disappointed as anyone in the new Supra. But it's really a BMW. Why? Because that made the most consumer and fiscal sense for Toyota. Period. End of story.
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      08-06-2019, 03:28 PM   #945
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So far only stock Supras showing up on YouTube. Has anyone tried a JB+ or JB4 yet?
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      08-06-2019, 03:40 PM   #946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
To the poster who said the Supra has 'equitable performance to a Cayman S': NOT. I literally laughed out loud when I read that.
Youre welcome to grow up a pair and @ me, it won't hurt my feelings.

Unfortunately we don't have a direct comparison to the 718 s, but we do have some with base and GTS models.

Feel free to explain how their performance differences can be laughable in any regards. And let's not discredit 1.58.9 at Buttonwillow while we are here

https://www.motortrend.com/news/auto...he-718-cayman/

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/rev...porsche-cayman
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