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      01-28-2020, 02:11 PM   #67
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Amazes me that we have folks judging instead of being human and kind. Think about all that was lost on that helicopter. A lot people hurt, regardless of choices their loved ones made. Pretty low to attack the deceased...
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      01-28-2020, 02:11 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I fail to see how that's a defense to Kobe. Or how it tells us if she did or didn't consent to having sex with him. Are mentally questionable people incapable of being raped? Is that your argument? And if true, means Kobe has bad judgement in the women he chooses to sleep with.
It goes both ways. You do realize he was never convicted of rape and the question still remains.
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      01-28-2020, 02:15 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So did you work on his defence team? I'm not going to suggest that you don't know any of that to be correct but I don't know that that is public knowledge. What is public knowledge and part of the court record paints him in a pretty poor light. Everything you say might be true, but does it change what we know to be true?
All true, reported by various media outlets at the time. She also attended a party within a week of the incident. Party goers said she was in a happy mood and even bragging about the incident. She even detailed his anatomy.
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      01-28-2020, 02:20 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
All true, reported by various media outlets at the time. She also attended a party within a week of the incident. Party goers said she was in a happy mood and even bragging about the incident. She even detailed his anatomy.
So I have investigated lots of serious crimes, including sexual assault. How a victim behaves or responds isn't always what you would expect or think. It's like telling someone a family member has died, the response can be very much not what you would predict. I'm not saying she didn't have issues, and maybe she was a party favour.....that doesn't mean that the allegations against Bryant weren't true. From what I've read that seems to be pretty fact based he clearly was with her and his admission seems to be that consent was an issue. He wasn't convicted but neither was OJ, and my only point there is not guilty and innocent are two very different things.

Women absolutely make false allegations, but what I've read causes me concern about his side of the story. He has and had the money to pay to go to trial and clear his name, which would be more important to his brand and would've been cheaper than what he lost in endorsements. If I was him and didn't do it I would've fought to the bitter end to clear my name.
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      01-28-2020, 02:27 PM   #71
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She has to be getting offered money right now to talk to media.


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      01-28-2020, 02:37 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
All true, reported by various media outlets at the time. She also attended a party within a week of the incident. Party goers said she was in a happy mood and even bragging about the incident. She even detailed his anatomy.
Even Bryant's lawyers got admonished for lying.

October 20, 2003 article by Richard Hoffer, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED
"...Mackey asked in cross-examination if it was
"consistent with a person who had sex with three different men in
three days." That suggestion, which Mackey could not or was
unwilling to back up, earned her a recess in the judge's chamber
but pushed a promiscuous (and irrelevant) image of the
complainant into the media."
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      01-28-2020, 02:53 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
It goes both ways. You do realize he was never convicted of rape and the question still remains.
I don't follow. What do you mean by "It goes both ways"?
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      01-28-2020, 03:01 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottSinger View Post
Even Bryant's lawyers got admonished for lying.

October 20, 2003 article by Richard Hoffer, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED
"...Mackey asked in cross-examination if it was
"consistent with a person who had sex with three different men in
three days." That suggestion, which Mackey could not or was
unwilling to back up, earned her a recess in the judge's chamber
but pushed a promiscuous (and irrelevant) image of the
complainant into the media."
Faber likely had sex with another man hours after the alleged rape. That girl was sketch as hell.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/u...rape-case.html
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      01-28-2020, 03:41 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by cjackson1906 View Post
Once again, Tom is on point with his latest post. Even more importantly, if the Kobe “truthers”, “What about the other passengers” or “he just played basketball” commentators feel they now want to air their opinions, feel free to create another thread because this thread is titled “RIP Kobe Bryant”, not “Kobe Bryant: A Retrospective” or “Let’s acknowledge all deaths”. The OP obviously created this thread to share condolences and express positive sentiments after Kobe Bryant’s death. So again, feel free to create those other threads and others will choose (or not) to share their thoughts on that topic.
True.

I jumped on the negativity with respect to the thread.
I don’t need to start another thread, that should be directed to the OP who decided to crap on his demise to soap box about morality.

I respect your point and have moved on.
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      01-28-2020, 04:11 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Faber likely had sex with another man hours after the alleged rape. That girl was sketch as hell.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/u...rape-case.html
defenses proposed that prosecutor lawyer denies that.

Kobe, lied to the cops, threw a semen stained shirt at a cop. snitched on Shaq. Kobe was asshole at that time in his life.
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      01-28-2020, 04:23 PM   #77
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The guy’s human! He traveled every few days to major cities across the nation and in each one, girls would be lining up outside his hotel room. Maybe the temptation was too great at that moment. At least he learned his lesson and moved on
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      01-28-2020, 04:50 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
True.

I jumped on the negativity with respect to the thread.
I don’t need to start another thread, that should be directed to the OP who decided to crap on his demise to soap box about morality.

I respect your point and have moved on.
The thing is though that you guys haven't done anything against my point other than deflect.

I stated it saddened me that society is mourning the loss of someone simply for being good at basketball and not for being a good human being. Not one of you guys have come back with a single thing showing he was a good human being. Instead you argued that he didn't rape the girl and took the woman as mentally unstable, so therefore (for some strange reason) that doesn't count as rape. Which I get that you'll want to protect your idol, but it doesn't change things. Because, whatever way you'll want to twist around his rape case, he still cheated on his wife and family and done various other things that good human beings don't do. All with never apologizing for...
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      01-28-2020, 04:52 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HXS View Post
The guy’s human! He traveled every few days to major cities across the nation and in each one, girls would be lining up outside his hotel room. Maybe the temptation was too great at that moment. At least he learned his lesson and moved on
Yet you own an M5
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      01-28-2020, 04:59 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
True.

I jumped on the negativity with respect to the thread.
I don't need to start another thread, that should be directed to the OP who decided to crap on his demise to soap box about morality.

I respect your point and have moved on.
The thing is though that you guys haven't done anything against my point other than deflect.

I stated it saddened me that society is mourning the loss of someone simply for being good at basketball and not for being a good human being. Not one of you guys have come back with a single thing showing he was a good human being. Instead you argued that he didn't rape the girl and took the woman as mentally unstable, so therefore (for some strange reason) that doesn't count as rape. Which I get that you'll want to protect your idol, but it doesn't change things. Because, whatever way you'll want to twist around his rape case, he still cheated on his wife and family and done various other things that good human beings don't do. All with never apologizing for...
What he did was between he and his wife. She stuck with him. Now, he is answering to God.

Why don't you just let people mourn how and who they want to and keep the negativity to yourself?
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      01-28-2020, 05:05 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
The thing is though that you guys haven't done anything against my point other than deflect.

I stated it saddened me that society is mourning the loss of someone simply for being good at basketball and not for being a good human being. Not one of you guys have come back with a single thing showing he was a good human being. Instead you argued that he didn't rape the girl and took the woman as mentally unstable, so therefore (for some strange reason) that doesn't count as rape. Which I get that you'll want to protect your idol, but it doesn't change things. Because, whatever way you'll want to twist around his rape case, he still cheated on his wife and family and done various other things that good human beings don't do. All with never apologizing for...
I’m not going to join a debate as to whether a sexual assault or two consenting adults engaged in sexual activity, but you asked for evidence of him being a good human being. Here you go...and it’s not hard to find if you really care to know and want to acknowledge it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/27/us/honoor-kobe-bryant-charity-iyw-trnd/index.html
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      01-28-2020, 05:25 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HXS View Post
The guy’s human! He traveled every few days to major cities across the nation and in each one, girls would be lining up outside his hotel room. Maybe the temptation was too great at that moment. At least he learned his lesson and moved on
So lets unpack that....yup, pro athletes, rock stars, movie stars, high profile politicians etc. have groupies......and handlers.....tell them what you want, and someone like Bryant could have them properly vetted so as not to be crazy......Tiger liked the crack ho's, I'm not judging i'm just sayin'.



and yet here we are.
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      01-28-2020, 05:26 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by cjackson1906 View Post
I’m not going to join a debate as to whether a sexual assault or two consenting adults engaged in sexual activity, but you asked for evidence of him being a good human being. Here you go...and it’s not hard to find if you really care to know and want to acknowledge it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...rnd/index.html
The two are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people did good things, look at Cosby for an example if you need one.
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      01-28-2020, 05:57 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
The two are not mutually exclusive. Lots of people did good things, look at Cosby for an example if you need one.
The person I replied to asked for evidence of him being a good human being....I provided that. It’s your choice if you want to discount his contributions to humanity, but that does not make them any less impactful or irrelevant. Further, it’s also your choice to place more weight on an unproved allegation of sexual assault compared to his philanthropy, community service and impact off the court. One is rooted in fact, while the other is rooted on speculation or at a minimum, incomplete facts/evidence.

As far as bringing up Cosby, that’s a false equivalency since Cosby was convicted of a crime and is serving time in prison. In other words, the facts/evidence support the allegations. Also, there’s multiple allegations against Cosby that span several decades. That’s not the case for Kobe.
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      01-28-2020, 06:01 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by cjackson1906 View Post
The person I replied to asked for evidence of him being a good human being....I provided that. It’s your choice if you want to discount his contributions to humanity, but that does not make them any less impactful or irrelevant. Further, it’s also your choice to place more weight on an unproved allegation of sexual assault compared to his philanthropy, community service and impact off the court. One is rooted in fact, while the other is rooted on speculation or at a minimum, incomplete facts/evidence.

As far as bringing up Cosby, that’s a false equivalency since Cosby was convicted of a crime and is serving time in prison. In other words, the facts/evidence support the allegations. Also, there’s multiple allegations against Cosby that span several decades. That’s not the case for Kobe.
So, have you read the reports on court testimony? It's ok, lets us OJ as a comparison.....had his day in court....Not Guilty. Innocent? You tell me.

So if someone accused you of chocking them, forcing them to perform oral sex on you and then holding them bent over a chair while you forcibly raped them would you pay them to go away, or would you use your extreme wealth to defend yourself, your reputation and your multimillion dollar career and endorsements?

My point is simple....the list of deeply flawed rich famous people is very long, lets not make them out to be something they are not because they were rich and famous, were great musicians, actors, athletes or politician.....

Last edited by Salty Dog; 01-28-2020 at 06:12 PM..
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      01-28-2020, 07:47 PM   #86
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It's human nature to focus on a single negative over the many positives. Our brains are programmed to be Negative Bias so this is understandable. It will take a lot of mental and psychological development through a multitude of personal experiences to break past such mindset.

The reality is none of us are infallible, and Kobe was no exception to this. That being said, may the souls of all those on board the helicopter rest in peace, and most of all, R.I.P. Kobe Bryant!
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      01-28-2020, 08:20 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So, have you read the reports on court testimony? It's ok, lets us OJ as a comparison.....had his day in court....Not Guilty. Innocent? You tell me.

So if someone accused you of chocking them, forcing them to perform oral sex on you and then holding them bent over a chair while you forcibly raped them would you pay them to go away, or would you use your extreme wealth to defend yourself, your reputation and your multimillion dollar career and endorsements?

My point is simple....the list of deeply flawed rich famous people is very long, lets not make them out to be something they are not because they were rich and famous, were great musicians, actors, athletes or politician.....
Anyone can make an accusation, especially when there’s no other witnesses. Like you, I worked with sexual assault/Title IX cases (U.S. law). I’ve seen numerous allegations where people lied, had a distorted recollection of the truth (usually alcohol induced) or misinterpreted the situation. There were also numerous cases where an assault occurred where the evidence was irrefutable. That wasn’t the case in terms of Kobe.

As far as OJ is concerned, he wasn’t proven guilty but that doesn’t mean he’s innocent. Whether I or you believe OJ guilty is irrelevant. OJ and the prosecutor had an opportunity to present facts and be judged by his peers. However, bringing up OJ in relation to Kobe is an apples to Canadian bacon comparison...not even remotely related other than being athletes, financially stable and black.

There’s more deeply flawed people who are not rich or famous...some of which want to be rich and famous and b/c of that desire, they become even more flawed people and will do (and say) all sorts of things in the process.
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      01-29-2020, 07:42 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
The thing is though that you guys haven't done anything against my point other than deflect.

I stated it saddened me that society is mourning the loss of someone simply for being good at basketball and not for being a good human being. Not one of you guys have come back with a single thing showing he was a good human being. Instead you argued that he didn't rape the girl and took the woman as mentally unstable, so therefore (for some strange reason) that doesn't count as rape. Which I get that you'll want to protect your idol, but it doesn't change things. Because, whatever way you'll want to twist around his rape case, he still cheated on his wife and family and done various other things that good human beings don't do. All with never apologizing for...
You read his statement.
He wasn't charged with rape.
You have this weird perceived idea that the two parties involved, who agreed to resolution, doesn’t meet your standard? Who are you to cast this judgment?
You act like he hasn’t done anything “good”, and you get to dismiss his existence as being fouled because he was “unfaithful” to his vows?

You’re arrogance astounds me with the idea that we’re supposed to prove to YOU that he wasn’t a “good” and not deserving of mourning as he died horrifically with his daughter, daughters friends and his close friends.

Over the last 20 years, Kobe Bryant has granted more than 250 wishes of children battling life-threatening illnesses through the Make A Wish Foundation, how many did you grant? How much mind or time did you put into charity? Ever stir a pot at a food kitchen?

I get that your angry towards his, what you would consider, undeserving success, and undeserving mourning, but your callousness at the time his family is completely shattered is astounding. You talk about morality and goodness, while you shit over the family that loved him with hours of his demise....there hasn’t even been a funeral yet.


Kobe Bryant has supported the following charities:

After-School All-Stars
Aid Still Required
Cathy's Kids Foundation
Kobe and Vanessa Bryant Family Foundation


Could you please list all the “good” things you do, so we can shit all over that?
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