[ZigmundUK]

Has anyone who has this feature tested it beyond its stated limits?

I understand the car tells you to put your hands back on then demands it by playing some beeping and flashing red. But what does it do if you don't?

One review stated it deactivates the lane keeping assist - surely that is immensely dangerous. If the driver has fallen asleep the worst thing to do is to turn off the feature keeping them alive?!

Also has anyone worked out if you can code it to not have a time limit?

[Almaretto]

It does deactivate.

Either way, it is dangerous to fall asleep while driving. It is Driver Assistance, not replacement.

On some other series, some coded to slightly increase limit, but not completely disable.

[///Marko]

Originally Posted by Almaretto

It does deactivate.

Either way, it is dangerous to fall asleep while driving. It is Driver Assistance, not replacement.

[Almaretto]

Originally Posted by ///Marko

I personally disable lane departure warning and rarely, if ever, use ACC+.

I really like the subtle blind spot detection, but have had both steering assist and frontal collision warning fooled and did not appreciate the interventions.

[ZigmundUK]

Originally Posted by Almaretto

It does deactivate.

Either way, it is dangerous to fall asleep while driving. It is Driver Assistance, not replacement.

On some other series, some coded to slightly increase limit, but not completely disable.

I'm not suggesting that someone do this on purpose but if it's accidental then it's a bit crazy to deactivate it and effectively cause a crash?!

The safest move here is to keep going and maybe drop the speed v slowly downwards to about 30-40mph until driver wakes or police etc come up to the car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

I'm not suggesting that someone do this on purpose but if it's accidental then it's a bit crazy to deactivate it and effectively cause a crash?!

The safest move here is to keep going and maybe drop the speed v slowly downwards to about 30-40mph until driver wakes or police etc come up to the car.

Your comments got me thinking, on something that has concerned me regarding these driving aids.

I see it as a possible minefield, the implications of switching on and off, even coding such features.

Say there is a serious accident due to one of these aids. Who is going to take responsibility? The driver saying, "I thought it was on". "Yes, I do switch it off, but I'm sure I'd left it on this time", etc. Never mind any deception, if it was the driver's fault. Coding by the user, that is definitely an area of concern, particularly the legal responsibility. You can see the lawyers wringing their hands, as they debate this one.

From my perspective we'll need a 'black box' fitted, even for these selectable driving aids, obviously required for autonomous driving.

[ajfoggy]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Your comments got me thinking, on something that has concerned me regarding these driving aids.

I see it as a possible minefield, the implications of switching on and off, even coding such features.

Say there is a serious accident due to one of these aids. Who is going to take responsibility? The driver saying, "I thought it was on". "Yes, I do switch it off, but I'm sure I'd left it on this time", etc. Never mind any deception, if it was the driver's fault. Coding by the user, that is definitely an area of concern, particularly the legal responsibility. You can see the lawyers wringing their hands, as they debate this one.

From my perspective we'll need a 'black box' fitted, even for these selectable driving aids, obviously required for autonomous driving.

I don't think it really matters, ultimately the driver of the car is responsible for the car. No matter what is turned on or off, or they thought it was on or off.

[ZigmundUK]

Originally Posted by ajfoggy

I don't think it really matters, ultimately the driver of the car is responsible for the car. No matter what is turned on or off, or they thought it was on or off.

Yes I think this is right but the question has been flying around tech circles for a while.

My issue with just switching it off if no user input received is this:

You're going 70mph (ahem) on a motorway. You have the adaptive cruise and the lane keep assist turned on. Something happens - eg heart attack - and you are unconscious now.

In that situation sounds like the car will beep at you to put hands on and then give up and deactivate the lane keep assist but maintain the 70mph on the road. This will be disastrous!

What it should do is slow down the car gently while keeping both aids on to a reasonable speed then maybe even full stop.

[ajfoggy]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

Yes I think this is right but the question has been flying around tech circles for a while.

My issue with just switching it off if no user input received is this:

You're going 70mph (ahem) on a motorway. You have the adaptive cruise and the lane keep assist turned on. Something happens - eg heart attack - and you are unconscious now.

In that situation sounds like the car will beep at you to put hands on and then give up and deactivate the lane keep assist but maintain the 70mph on the road. This will be disastrous!

What it should do is slow down the car gently while keeping both aids on to a reasonable speed then maybe even full stop.

Yep I understand what you are saying completely.

In theory the active cruise should slow you down and stop if the car in front does that. But the lane guidance will just turn off and you'll drift away.

At least with active cruise you have a change of slowing or stopping, standard cruise and you're in trouble!

[Nivarox]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

Yes I think this is right but the question has been flying around tech circles for a while.

My issue with just switching it off if no user input received is this:

You're going 70mph (ahem) on a motorway. You have the adaptive cruise and the lane keep assist turned on. Something happens - eg heart attack - and you are unconscious now.

In that situation sounds like the car will beep at you to put hands on and then give up and deactivate the lane keep assist but maintain the 70mph on the road. This will be disastrous!

What it should do is slow down the car gently while keeping both aids on to a reasonable speed then maybe even full stop.

I think this is what this system is supposed to do under such conditions , safely pulling the car over and put the blinkers on and even may be calling BMW Emergency line .I think if the car is capable of driving itself semi autonomous or not it can safely get itself off the road

[BiGFather]

When the lane assist is not so clever..

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

Yes I think this is right but the question has been flying around tech circles for a while.

My issue with just switching it off if no user input received is this:

You're going 70mph (ahem) on a motorway. You have the adaptive cruise and the lane keep assist turned on. Something happens - eg heart attack - and you are unconscious now.

In that situation sounds like the car will beep at you to put hands on and then give up and deactivate the lane keep assist but maintain the 70mph on the road. This will be disastrous!

What it should do is slow down the car gently while keeping both aids on to a reasonable speed then maybe even full stop.

There is a change coming for new builds and existing Gxx will receive a a software update to enable Emergency Brake Assistant. A change to The Vienna Treaty had to be ratified first.

[Shakespere]

I have been using it for a month. Great on motorways. But soon as lane markings dissappear or an exit ramp appears without clear markings it switches off sometimes even without warning. So you have to be all the time present at driving. And it warns too. It's a feature to help u relax not to drive you Not an autopilot.

[Almaretto]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

I'm not suggesting that someone do this on purpose but if it's accidental then it's a bit crazy to deactivate it and effectively cause a crash?!

The safest move here is to keep going and maybe drop the speed v slowly downwards to about 30-40mph until driver wakes or police etc come up to the car.

I understood as well as tried to follow-up with some details to clarify. I never intended to imply you were advocating driving in an incapacitated state.

Personally, I have only had minimal experience with Active Lane keeping Assistant compared to dozens of heard/read 1st & 2nd-hand accounts. I am not sure which takes priority, keeping lane position or some of the other systems (eg, side collision avoidance/Evasion Aid). There have been mixed reviews of both loving system along with fighting against it.

As such, I do not know which would be safer (ie continued operation, alternative protocols, or shutdown). Further, not sure how they system would determine if the driver is still cognitively present and know to slow vehicle down.

As an aside, I have seen videos and documentation for other manufacture systems capable of passing other vehicles without intervention. I have not driven with any of them.

Originally Posted by ajfoggy

Yep I understand what you are saying completely.

In theory the active cruise should slow you down and stop if the car in front does that. But the lane guidance will just turn off and you'll drift away.

At least with active cruise you have a change of slowing or stopping, standard cruise and you're in trouble!

Active cruise control definitely will slow vehicle down to a complete stop. In my experience, the F010 mono & G012/G030 stereo camera(s) are smart enough to both pick up larger objects like walls or vehicles as well as smaller bikes & pedestrians. As much as many wish they could extend period, after stop, which vehicle will resume movement to target speed; I guess an asleep driver could be one of the reasons to advocate for a continued stop.

Originally Posted by lemetier

There is a change coming for new builds and existing Gxx will receive a a software update to enable Emergency Brake Assistant. A change to The Vienna Treaty had to be ratified first.

Are there any minimum hardware requirements for update (ie does it apply to to both 2016 & 2017 G12)? Do you have further details regarding what Emergency Brake Assistant would entail?

Originally Posted by Shakespere

I have been using it for a month. Great on motorways. But soon as lane markings dissappear or an exit ramp appears without clear markings it switches off sometimes even without warning. So you have to be all the time present at driving. And it warns too. It's a feature to help u relax not to drive you Not an autopilot.

Does HUD or dash not indicate system active?

Do you have expanded marking recognition (eg, Road Edge or Active but limited to either grass, snow edge, curbs, or raised object)?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Almaretto

Are there any minimum hardware requirements for update (ie does it apply to to both 2016 & 2017 G12)? Do you have further details regarding what Emergency Brake Assistant would entail?

Emergency Brake Assistant will provide a 3rd and 4th warning level before initiating the action. If no driver response is made after the first red visual and audible alert, the emergency flashers are activated and the car will make 3 brief but forceful brake inputs. If no input is received, the car will then brake to a stop in its current lane, activate an emergency call, unlock the doors, and turn on the interior lights.

The next version will move the car off the road.

[ZigmundUK]

Originally Posted by Almaretto

I understood as well as tried to follow-up with some details to clarify. I never intended to imply you were advocating driving in an incapacitated state.

Personally, I have only had minimal experience with Active Lane keeping Assistant compared to dozens of heard/read 1st & 2nd-hand accounts. I am not sure which takes priority, keeping lane position or some of the other systems (eg, side collision avoidance/Evasion Aid). There have been mixed reviews of both loving system along with fighting against it.

As such, I do not know which would be safer (ie continued operation, alternative protocols, or shutdown). Further, not sure how they system would determine if the driver is still cognitively present and know to slow vehicle down.

As an aside, I have seen videos and documentation for other manufacture systems capable of passing other vehicles without intervention. I have not driven with any of them.

Active cruise control definitely will slow vehicle down to a complete stop. In my experience, the F010 mono & G012/G030 stereo camera(s) are smart enough to both pick up larger objects like walls or vehicles as well as smaller bikes & pedestrians. As much as many wish they could extend period, after stop, which vehicle will resume movement to target speed; I guess an asleep driver could be one of the reasons to advocate for a continued stop.

Are there any minimum hardware requirements for update (ie does it apply to to both 2016 & 2017 G12)? Do you have further details regarding what Emergency Brake Assistant would entail?

Does HUD or dash not indicate system active?

Do you have expanded marking recognition (eg, Road Edge or Active but limited to either grass, snow edge, curbs, or raised object)?

There are plenty of videos and pictures on the net of people who have been incapacitated while driving and it ends up causing horrific messes. As well as people drifting off to sleep. Having this feature will no doubt cause some people to relax more and maybe drift off etc.

I'm just surprised Bmw (who usually design things intelligently) would switch it off rather than take a safer course of action.

[Almaretto]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

There are plenty of videos and pictures on the net of people who have been incapacitated while driving and it ends up causing horrific messes. As well as people drifting off to sleep. Having this feature will no doubt cause some people to relax more and maybe drift off etc.

I'm just surprised Bmw (who usually design things intelligently) would switch it off rather than take a safer course of action.

See post above yours. Seems pretty intelligent to me.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

There are plenty of videos and pictures on the net of people who have been incapacitated while driving and it ends up causing horrific messes. As well as people drifting off to sleep. Having this feature will no doubt cause some people to relax more and maybe drift off etc.

I'm just surprised Bmw (who usually design things intelligently) would switch it off rather than take a safer course of action.

Being a bit dramatic sir. There are Regulatory Requirements and Limitations.

BMW (together with MB and VAG) have been developing these systems for years.

Here are the prototypes demonstrating the systems' capabilities 7 years ago.

[ZigmundUK]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Being a bit dramatic sir. There are Regulatory Requirements and Limitations.

BMW (together with MB and VAG) have been developing these systems for years.

Here are the prototypes demonstrating the systems' capabilities 7 years ago.

Hehe yes I was.

Looks good for the future.

Happy to let this lie but my point isn't about the emergency brake (which I hadn't appreciated and is cool btw). It's more the weird act of turning off the lane assist. Now there can't be regulatory reasons to do that in the uk because tesla have a system that lets you go hands free.

Options:
a) let car keep in lane while playing all the loud alarms and do an emergency brake if necessary within lane vs
b) turn off the lane assist and cause an emergency brake situation when it swerves into another lane or into the barrier

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

Hehe yes I was.

Looks good for the future.

Happy to let this lie but my point isn't about the emergency brake (which I hadn't appreciated and is cool btw). It's more the weird act of turning off the lane assist. Now there can't be regulatory reasons to do that in the uk because tesla have a system that lets you go hands free.

Options:
a) let car keep in lane while playing all the loud alarms and do an emergency brake if necessary within lane vs
b) turn off the lane assist and cause an emergency brake situation when it swerves into another lane or into the barrier

There are numerous Regulations and there is inconsistencies as to what applies in certain markets. Tesla nearly had all their type approvals revoked in UNECE 1958 Member Countries. Their Autopilot System now has a timer and if the driver repeatedly triggers the High Level Warning, the system is turned off and unavailable for the remainder of the drive.

The way everyone but Tesla has approached this is specifically to avoid increased driver inattentiveness until the technology and infrastructure is ready.

[ZigmundUK]

Originally Posted by lemetier

There are numerous Regulations and there is inconsistencies as to what applies in certain markets. Tesla nearly had all their type approvals revoked in UNECE 1958 Member Countries. Their Autopilot System now has a timer and if the driver repeatedly triggers the High Level Warning, the system is turned off and unavailable for the remainder of the drive.

The way everyone but Tesla has approached this is specifically to avoid increased driver inattentiveness until the technology and infrastructure is ready.

Sensible.