[N & M]

Originally Posted by SF_Ludwig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz5Gw4E_Ijg

So judging by the Sound, the mid-level application will feature an I6. When one listens to the startup of the 3.0 CSL Hommage it sounds just like a really loud N55, possibly B58.

It's sporty but not a straight six that is expected for the CSL. Surely there is a way to get a small displacement six into this confirmation and get the fuel economy box ticked. Cars like this need the sound to impart the personality and desirability so crucial to making them icons.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW focused on developing their new Power eDrive plug-in hybrid system
BMW 5-Series GT with eDrive and TwinPower Turbo technology

Would be used on medium and large vehicles
BMW has used the Vienna Motor Symposium to announce they're focused on developing their new Power eDrive plug-in hybrid system for medium and large vehicles.

Described as the "next stage of development," the plug-in hybrid system features two electric motors and a combustion engine. The system was originally previewed last year on a 5-Series GT prototype which had an electric-only range of up to 100 km (62 miles) and a combined maximum output in excess of 680 PS (500 kW) and 1,015 Nm (750 lb-ft) of torque.

While BMW was coy on specifics, they hinted the powertrain would give production models an overall range of approximately 600 km (310 miles) which "guarantees a long-distance capability that is also adequate for large vehicles." The company also pointed out that nearly 80 percent of average commutes would be covered in all-electric mode.

Power eDrive plus TwinPower Turbo technology – the future of plug-in hybrid drive.

The overall efficiency of a plug-in hybrid vehicle is closely related to its all- electric driving range. The ongoing development and refinement of hybrid drive systems under the Efficient Dynamics programme is geared in particular to maximising the amount of time the vehicle spends in electric mode. In order to ensure that this shift to increased electric operation goes hand in hand with typical BMW dynamic performance, unimpaired everyday practicality and maximum long-distance capability, the BMW Group is developing a new generation of “highly electrified” hybrid concept models.

Highlights of the future models’ Power eDrive technology will include significantly higher-powered electric motors and batteries with twice the capacity of present versions. With this technology, the BMW Group is embarking on the next stage in powertrain electrification. The development of high-performance Power eDrive electric drive technology is aimed at increasing both the overall efficiency and the dynamism of future hybrid vehicles. Increasing focus will be placed on all-electric operation – i.e. operation with zero tailpipe emissions. Power eDrive technology for plug-in hybrid application will be a natural choice for use in upmarket vehicle segments too, where it will offer unrestricted everyday practicality plus good long-distance capability.

In these plug-in hybrid vehicles of the future, the Power eDrive electric drive system will contribute approximately two thirds of the vehicle’s combined output, with the TwinPower Turbo internal combustion engine accounting for the remaining third. The drive components used in these future hybrid systems will offer combined outputs in excess of 500 kW, while the capacity of the lithium-ion batteries – up to 20 kilowatt hours – will likewise be greatly in excess of current hybrid systems.

Zero local emissions in everyday operation, instant accelerating power, superior long-distance comfort.These advances, coupled with an increased all-electric driving range of up to 100 kilometres (62 miles), will make it possible to operate in locally emission- free all-electric mode on virtually all day-to-day trips. The role of the internal combustion engine within this concept will be a supporting one that takes various forms. For example the engine can provide a boost function when extra-dynamic acceleration is required, and it can also serve to increase the overall driving range to levels typical of a conventionally powered vehicle.

At the same time, the performance of these future hybrid models will be on a par with that of a conventionally powered sports car. To add to the excitement the new, higher-powered motors will offer a further increase in the low-end responsiveness that has always been the hallmark of electric drive.

Flexible concept for typical BMW driving pleasure.

On future plug-in hybrid concepts the electric motor, which will be the main source of power for everyday driving, will continue to drive the rear wheels, while the addition of a second electric motor driving the front wheels will create an all-electric road-coupled all-wheel-drive system. At the same time, an internal combustion engine will also supply power to the front axle.

With its development work in the field of eDrive technology, the BMW Group is positioning itself to field the broadest possible range of high-overall- efficiency vehicle concepts. While the BMW i3 is the ideal solution for urban and suburban mobility, future plug-in hybrid drive systems will allow fuel consumption and emissions to be steadily reduced in long-distance operation as well. In other words, it will be possible to deliver a typical BMW driving experience across a whole range of scenarios, including zero-local-emission everyday driving, long-distance trips and sporty, dynamic driving situations.

My question; if this is where the conventional range is going, where does M go? Are we going to see 700 PS plus power outputs?

[Mako]

I don't think BMW cares too much if a buyer is cross shopping 2-3 of its own vehicles, their goal is to make sure you buy a BMW and not a Tesla/Audi/Mercedes/Porsche...

I think something like this and a M5 could co-exist, they would attract different buyers too. M5 would still be the "track" car, RWD, overall most sporty of the 5 series, hybrid might be the same or even faster in a straight line but that would be it and would allow BMW to offer a Tesla competing 5 series with AWD without having to make the M5 AWD.

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Mako

I don't think BMW cares too much if a buyer is cross shopping 2-3 of its own vehicles, their goal is to make sure you buy a BMW and not a Tesla/Audi/Mercedes/Porsche...

I think you're mistaken.
I don't have any first knowledge; but, it's doesn't seem likely, for example, BMW wants you to come out of your 4 series to go into a 2 series. For the simple reason their profit margin is much higher in 4 cars. My guess is they live in fear of inadvertently creating a publicly successful lower level, low profit car which supplants (in the public's mind) many of their profitable high level cars. Perhaps, even more concerned about that than they are about Tesla.

[Longboarder]

Awesome. Looking forward to the guys that get the early models and mod them

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Personally, I think a more likely outcome (if they even make a power e-drive 5er) is that either it will fit in between a 550i and the M5. Or this will be a replacement for the 550i's V8 (like how Volvo replaced the V8 in the new XC90).

Can we confirm that there will even be a 550i (or what ever they call the non-M5 V8) in the next 5-Series?

I've heard mention of a G30 550i, with the difference this time being that it would be an xDrive-only offering. I'm not sure if this is confirmed though.

Mercedes has deleted their E550 sedan from the U.S. lineup, and the current rumor is that the next generation W213 E Class, which should debut later this year, will not include a V8 model below the E63 anywhere in the world (there reportedly will be a > 400hp I6 model though). Perhaps BMW will make a similar move later in the G30's lifetime, substituting a performance eDrive model instead.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

I would think that would cause too much cannibalization within BMW's line. Because this person would also be cross shopping it against a 550i, an M5, and the standard hybrid.

And then there is the problem of how they would price it. Would they price it higher than the M5? I don't really see them doing that, but at the same time I don't see them selling a more powerful car thats cheaper than a M5.

Personally, I think a more likely outcome (if they even make a power e-drive 5er) is that either it will fit in between a 550i and the M5. Or this will be a replacement for the 550i's V8 (like how Volvo replaced the V8 in the new XC90).

Can we confirm that there will even be a 550i (or what ever they call the non-M5 V8) in the next 5-Series?

With full respect, this fear of internal cannibalization is outdated thinking. With tesla and competition racing onwards with electrifying fleets, BMW's board would be imbecilic if they were more worried about internal cannibalization than competitive threats. Most current day top of the line bimmers out power previous gen M's. It just raises the bars for the M's.

[Fraggy]

This is so sad. Ive never been able to afford an M, but Im close... But I don't want an electric car, thats just not "real" to me. I want guttural, vibrating, the feeing of power and refinement. A whirring motor, its like the jetsons, lol. And for no reason, there is plenty of gasoline...

Its just my insignificant opinion, I know that, just hoping and praying. Im sure it will be good, no doubt, but not my idea of a sports car if its a hybrid.

[3s-a-charm]

After 5 months in my Tesla "D" (I am a long time BMW owner) I can say I will never buy another car that isn't somewhat electric. It's amazing and very addictive. If BMW can produce a high power performance sedan that I can drive in all electric or hybrid mode I will be back to BMW. For now there is no option other than Tesla.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

With full respect, this fear of internal cannibalization is outdated thinking. With tesla and competition racing onwards with electrifying fleets, BMW's board would be imbecilic if they were more worried about internal cannibalization than competitive threats. Most current day top of the line bimmers out power previous gen M's. It just raises the bars for the M's.

Tesla isn't going anywhere. For the next 20 years they are at best going to be a small time player. And for that matter, battery technology is not going anywhere (its a chemistry problem not a tech problem so they aren't affected by Moore's Law). So as long as Tesla stays EV only, they are a minuscule threat at best in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, what I'm basically saying is that I don't see BMW making a non-M car with that much power. I don't see 670hp and 1000Nm happening

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Tesla isn't going anywhere. For the next 20 years they are at best going to be a small time player. And for that matter, battery technology is not going anywhere (its a chemistry problem not a tech problem so they aren't affected by Moore's Law). So as long as Tesla stays EV only, they are a minuscule threat at best in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, what I'm basically saying is that I don't see BMW making a non-M car with that much power. I don't see 670hp and 1000Nm happening

BMWs Vision Future Luxury Concept featured the 670 PS eDrive drivetrain.
So it would work for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars especially the next generation Phantom that will be offered with Plug-In Hybrid variant. Fitting for the worlds most advanced luxury vehicle which describes the next Phantom in its entirety.

[3s-a-charm]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMWs Vision Future Luxury Concept featured the 670 PS eDrive drivetrain.
So it would work for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars especially the next generation Phantom that will be offered with Plug-In Hybrid variant. Fitting for the worlds most advanced luxury vehicle which describes the next Phantom in its entirety.

So I need to buy a Rolls next... Okay

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMWs Vision Future Luxury Concept featured the 670 PS eDrive drivetrain.
So it would work for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars especially the next generation Phantom that will be offered with Plug-In Hybrid variant. Fitting for the worlds most advanced luxury vehicle which describes the next Phantom in its entirety.

I thought you said the next Phantom would have a V-16?

[z19930612]

Call it M560e, sorted
And it won't go as quick as a M5 on the track because it's weight

[BC87]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

I would think that would cause too much cannibalization within BMW's line. Because this person would also be cross shopping it against a 550i, an M5, and the standard hybrid.

And then there is the problem of how they would price it. Would they price it higher than the M5? I don't really see them doing that, but at the same time I don't see them selling a more powerful car thats cheaper than a M5.

Personally, I think a more likely outcome (if they even make a power e-drive 5er) is that either it will fit in between a 550i and the M5. Or this will be a replacement for the 550i's V8 (like how Volvo replaced the V8 in the new XC90).

Can we confirm that there will even be a 550i (or what ever they call the non-M5 V8) in the next 5-Series?

I def. agree that there would be cross shopping between this and the 550i. I don't believe, could be completely wrong just my opinion, that M customers would be considering this unless it offered everything else an M can...brakes, handling, suspension etc.

[Lefty de Vito]

Originally Posted by Jason

The total output comes to at least 670 bhp, with over 1,000Nm torque (737 lb-ft). *If* it made production in this form, this would be the most powerful BMW production powertrain ever!

As for range - a 20kWh lithium-ion battery provided an all-electric range of 62 miles in the 5 Series GT prototype (a very heavy model). A 370-mile total range was claimed.

So actually we're getting 670 watts PMPO with a petrol engine delivering 228 Watts continuous power?

[boxsterSF]

Anyone who has driven the Tesla knows it's not really 691 HP. Adding the electric motor power to the gasoline motor power isn't SAE certified. The P85D feels like a 400 HP car with 700 ft/lb. The 70D feels like a 300 HP car with 700 ft/lb.

This car will happen. It won't be the "racetrack" model. It's perfectly positioned to neutralize Tesla. It will be at least $100k.

BMW boards are overly negative when a rumor of a faster car comes out. It's not like BMW is going to axe their plans and sell uncompetitive cars.