[chuckles1313]

So one of the reasons I recently pulled the trigger on a new 2023 M550i was I've read rumors it might be one of the last chances to get an non-hybrid or electric BMW with physical controls (iDrive 8 is almost all touch screen).

After seeing this that seems like it might be more and more true:

What are your guys thoughts? Def seems like BMW is leaning hard into all electric / hybrid future.

[dscabra]

I don't keep up with what's coming on any make, but I just ordered a 2023 GMC Denali truck, and the bulk of the truck's systems are managed by a large 13.4" touch screen. It seems to be the trend for the future. GMC is using Android Auto OS. The system uses Google Assistant for voice control and Google Maps for navigation. It also supports phone integration with Android Auto and Apple Carplay.

[AP]

I fear it is. I'm just in the process of organising a test drive of a 550. So before the g60 arrives ( not keen on it for several reasons) last chance to get a pure ICE, idrive 7 as you say, and a v8 (at least here in the U.K)

[chuckles1313]

Originally Posted by AP

I fear it is. I'm just in the process of organising a test drive of a 550. So before the g60 arrives ( not keen on it for several reasons) last chance to get a pure ICE, idrive 7 as you say, and a v8 (at least here in the U.K)

Yep that’s what I ended up doing the M550. Always wanted a V8 and it sounds like unless you go full M5 that might not be possible soon.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by chuckles1313

What are your guys thoughts? Def seems like BMW is leaning hard into all electric / hybrid future.

They definitely are and that’s a good thing. Electric is where the performance is and BMW being a driver’s car brand they should have been here a lot sooner honestly.

Hybrids solve all of the “problems” with modern ICE cars. Auto Start Stop issues. Engine warm up. Turbo charging. Etc. etc.

They also make the ICE drivetrain last a LOT longer as they reduce the stress and the engine stays inside of its optimal range longer.

I’m not really sure why people don’t want electrification honestly. Especially in a hybrid scenario where the groan and rumble of the ICE isn’t gone.

Not to mention you send less money to crappy countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia…

[chuckles1313]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They definitely are and that’s a good thing. Electric is where the performance is and BMW being a driver’s car brand they should have been here a lot sooner honestly.

Hybrids solve all of the “problems” with modern ICE cars. Auto Start Stop issues. Engine warm up. Turbo charging. Etc. etc.

They also make the ICE drivetrain last a LOT longer as they reduce the stress and the engine stays inside of its optimal range longer.

I’m not really sure why people don’t want electrification honestly. Especially in a hybrid scenario where the groan and ruble of the ICE isn’t gone.

Not to mention you send less money to crappy countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia…

Maybe if I drive a hybrid setup that is as fun as ICE but so far I haven’t seen one. I’ve driven a Pryius (good god that sucks) and full electric (Tesla). Neither matched the fun of a V8.

[chuckles1313]

I should also add I get the practicality of electric, but for my fun car I want ICE.

[dscabra]

Originally Posted by chuckles1313

I should also add I get the practicality of electric, but for my fun car I want ICE.

I agree, and it should be an angry ICE to boot!

[chuckles1313]

Originally Posted by dscabra

I agree, and it should be an angry ICE to boot!

Attachment 3057138

Attachment 3057139

Dang that’s a catch. My neighbor has a neon green and matte black Shelby kit car he and his son built that is the loudest thing I’ve ever heard. Whenever he brings it home you can hear it coming a mile away.

But that’s part of what I’m saying. Driving ICE has soul where the hybrid and electrics I’ve seen so far don’t (I know it’s the way we are heading and younger generations will accept it as it’s more practical).

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by chuckles1313

Maybe if I drive a hybrid setup that is as fun as ICE but so far I haven’t seen one. I’ve driven a Pryius (good god that sucks) and full electric (Tesla). Neither matched the fun of a V8.

Definitely down to what you drove for sure.

Prius sucks royally. That car is optimized for fuel economy period. There isn’t any fun driving it. Even my wife (who cars absolutely zero about performance) said no to the Prius after a test drive due to how painfully sluggish it is.

Tesla is fast straight off the line, but really really boring to drive. They can’t build a car that’s fun and engaging to drive simply because they’re too focused on eliminating the driver.

I’d suggest driving a BMW I4 M50 or something like that if you want to get a chance to see electric from a driver’s perspective.

My 530e doesn’t feel slow or boring to drive. But BMW doesn’t optimize for fuel economy. So typical PHEVs will run the car from the EV motor and use the ICE to either charge the HV battery or run as a generator to power the EV motor. BMW instead allows both the ICE and EV motor to simultaneously power the drive train or for EV Motor or ICE to power independently. This gives you a drive train that is less efficient, but delivers more performance and stays engaging.

A BMW != Toyota

[chuckles1313]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Definitely down to what you drove for sure.

Prius sucks royally. That car is optimized for fuel economy period. There isn’t any fun driving it. Even my wife (who cars absolutely zero about performance) said no to the Prius after a test drive due to how painfully sluggish it is.

Tesla is fast straight off the line, but really really boring to drive. They can’t build a car that’s fun and engaging to drive simply because they’re too focused on eliminating the driver.

I’d suggest driving a BMW I4 M50 or something like that if you want to get a chance to see electric from a driver’s perspective.

My 530e doesn’t feel slow or boring to drive. But BMW doesn’t optimize for fuel economy. So typical PHEVs will run the car from the EV motor and use the ICE to either charge the HV battery or run as a generator to power the EV motor. BMW instead allows both the ICE and EV motor to simultaneously power the drive train or for EV Motor or ICE to power independently. This gives you a drive train that is less efficient, but delivers more performance and stays engaging.

A BMW != Toyota

Always fun to hear more perspectives. And I could see a hybrid situation geared towards performance being different. I’ll keep an open mind as I look for my next car in 5-7 years. Who knows what exactly will be out there. But it does make me glad I nabbed an ICE V8 while I can.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by chuckles1313

Dang that’s a catch. My neighbor has a neon green and matte black Shelby kit car he and his son built that is the loudest thing I’ve ever heard. Whenever he brings it home you can hear it coming a mile away.

But that’s part of what I’m saying. Driving ICE has soul where the hybrid and electrics I’ve seen so far don’t (I know it’s the way we are heading and younger generations will accept it as it’s more practical).

Oh it definitely has soul. That groan of the engine. The rumble of the fire. It’s pretty amazing. It is why I see the future of enthusiasts cars as being hybrids, possibly PHEV, for the foreseeable future. Pure electric is different so we’ll need to get used to different experiences and that’s easier for younger folks like myself.

But the hybrid/PHEV don’t pull you off the ICE entirely. It just softens out the weaker parts of a modern ICE car, but when you want to let it rip you can get that ICE fired up!

I used to be a “PHEVs are silly” kind of guy. I figured you should be in one camp or the other. What value would it have being a jack of all trades and master of none? Wife convinced me to give it a shot knowing I wanted to go BEV at some point and I’m very happy.

I agree with SteveinArizona that the 545e would be perfect. The I6 w/ the EV motor. I can imagine a M550i w/ an EV motor would be just sublime. Amazing fuel economy around town with EV boost to eliminate any turbo lag. Power on tap when it is needed, but not being wasted when stopping for coffee

Now driving more classic ICE cars like dscabra posted? That’ll stay a thing where we’re driving the older cars. Without all of the electronics like Drive-By-Wire and computers to keep people from killing themselves with 500HP motors… They feel very different to drive. Even when compared to a modern ICE car there is a very visceral feel they deliver.

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They definitely are and that’s a good thing. Electric is where the performance is and BMW being a driver’s car brand they should have been here a lot sooner honestly.

Hybrids solve all of the “problems” with modern ICE cars. Auto Start Stop issues. Engine warm up. Turbo charging. Etc. etc.

They also make the ICE drivetrain last a LOT longer as they reduce the stress and the engine stays inside of its optimal range longer.

I’m not really sure why people don’t want electrification honestly. Especially in a hybrid scenario where the groan and rumble of the ICE isn’t gone.

Not to mention you send less money to crappy countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia…

First off for me is the weight. The i4 is ~5k pounds! Then its the linear feeling of acceleration (like a golf cart) instead of going through the gears. Then 3rd of course we have the noise factor.

It likes the performance is there on paper but the emotions are now gone.

Like someone quoted - comparing gas to ev cars are like comparing a microwave to a bbq grill, it may cook faster but nobody wished for a microwaved burger! lol.

[dscabra]

Originally Posted by chuckles1313

Dang that’s a catch. My neighbor has a neon green and matte black Shelby kit car he and his son built that is the loudest thing I’ve ever heard. Whenever he brings it home you can hear it coming a mile away.

But that’s part of what I’m saying. Driving ICE has soul where the hybrid and electrics I’ve seen so far don’t (I know it’s the way we are heading and younger generations will accept it as it’s more practical).

Mine is a kit as well. It's a Factory Five that I built.

[chuckles1313]

Originally Posted by BMW012

First off for me is the weight. The i4 is ~5k pounds! Then its the linear feeling of acceleration (like a golf cart) instead of going through the gears. Then 3rd of course we have the noise factor.

It likes the performance is there on paper but the emotions are now gone.

Like someone quoted - comparing gas to ev cars are like comparing a microwave to a bbq grill, it may cook faster but nobody wished for a microwaved burger! lol.

Bahahaha that's a good analogy.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by BMW012

First off for me is the weight. The i4 is ~5k pounds! Then its the linear feeling of acceleration (like a golf cart) instead of going through the gears. Then 3rd of course we have the noise factor.

It likes the performance is there on paper but the emotions are now gone.

Like someone quoted - comparing gas to ev cars are like comparing a microwave to a bbq grill, it may cook faster but nobody wished for a microwaved burger! lol.

I haven’t yet driven the i4. I plan on getting around to it to or trying the i5 next year when it hits.

But on the PHEV BMW implemented the EV motor inside the transmission so they are one and the same. My PHEV definitely shifts gears in EV mode! I hope they added a transmission to the BEVs as I agree with you that without the transmission it feels more boring. But additionally, it is less efficient without a transmission, even for a BEV.

Lastly, I’ve not been talking about enthusiasts going for a BEV. Instead for a performance PHEV. Which has much less weight

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I haven’t yet driven the i4. I plan on getting around to it to or trying the i5 next year when it hits.

But on the PHEV BMW implemented the EV motor inside the transmission so they are one and the same. My PHEV definitely shifts gears in EV mode! I hope they added a transmission to the BEVs as I agree with you that without the transmission it feels more boring. But additionally, it is less efficient without a transmission, even for a BEV.

Lastly, I’ve not been talking about enthusiasts going for a BEV. Instead for a performance PHEV. Which has much less weight

Gotcha, gotcha. yea PHEV are good for sure. I got to drive around the i4 for like 20 minutes. Like the reviews, BMW did a good job to make it feel like an ICE. Car definitely felt planted due to the weight, but I definitely felt it and my M550i felt lighter when I got back into it .

[JTV]

I feared that V8s would be going away and that the level of electronics in cars would be going up exponentially. So, I got a 2022 M550i (with no options other than the Alcantara headliner) and a 2010 528xi as a winter beater. I'm hoping to keep both of these vehicles until I die...and hopefully my kids will keep them going once I'm gone.

[Mandingo9]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They definitely are and that’s a good thing. Electric is where the performance is and BMW being a driver’s car brand they should have been here a lot sooner honestly.

Hybrids solve all of the “problems” with modern ICE cars. Auto Start Stop issues. Engine warm up. Turbo charging. Etc. etc.

They also make the ICE drivetrain last a LOT longer as they reduce the stress and the engine stays inside of its optimal range longer.

I’m not really sure why people don’t want electrification honestly. Especially in a hybrid scenario where the groan and rumble of the ICE isn’t gone.

Not to mention you send less money to crappy countries like Saudi Arab Russia…

I wish I cared enough to respond more but this will do.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Mandingo9

I wish I cared enough to respond more but this will do.

Cool story bro.

[SonD]

Something of a shame you guys over in the US don’t get to try the 545e.
It has performed way above of any of my expectations, in every department with possibly the exception of mileage in EV mode, but I am more than happy with what I have.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

They definitely are and that’s a good thing. Electric is where the performance is and BMW being a driver’s car brand they should have been here a lot sooner honestly.

Hybrids solve all of the “problems” with modern ICE cars. Auto Start Stop issues. Engine warm up. Turbo charging. Etc. etc.

They also make the ICE drivetrain last a LOT longer as they reduce the stress and the engine stays inside of its optimal range longer.

I’m not really sure why people don’t want electrification honestly. Especially in a hybrid scenario where the groan and rumble of the ICE isn’t gone.

Not to mention you send less money to crappy countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia…

I agree. I’m keen on the upcoming m560e (?) if they decide to bring it to the US. Or perhaps even the i5. The problem with all the existing EV’s to me is that they’re compromised for reasons that have little to do with them being electric. Tesla’s interiors just aren’t to my taste, and I find lucid inferior to the German trio as well. The taycan is cramped, the ix is ugly and very heavy, same with the eqs.

Just give me an electrified, faster version of my M550 that’s at least equivalent in terms of comfort and convenience features and I’d probably tolerate the lower range.