[mobilegun]

Looking at M550s(or 540/m340, but that's another conversation) and almost all the LCIs I see with options I'm looking for, tend to have the ventilated (and massage) seats. Everything I've read, and the 540s, Ive test drove says the ventilation/massage is weak, and not worth the discomfort it adds and have perforated leather.
My question is do non vented seats not have micro perforations? I agree with the thought that non perforated seats will last or be more durable and that's what I'd prefer. Trying to decide if I need to look for what seems to be (more of) a unicorn in order to avoid perforated seats.

On the flip side, those of you with perforated seats, how are they wearing over time? I tend to keep cars indefinitely so... (My e39 540 seats are in great shape considering the age).

[Joe-BMW33]

It's a give and take situation. Sensatec (synthetic leather) and Dakota (entry level leather) are the only materials that do not offer ventilated seats and therefore have no pin cushion effect. Nappa and Merino, which are better leathers than Dakota only come with ventilated seats.

You are right, massage and ventilation is weak at best and pretty much useless, but it comes with the finer leathers which some would argue is more comfortable. If you really don't want these, I would definitely pick sensatec over dakota.

[SquareWheels]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

You are right, massage and ventilation is weak at best and pretty much useless, but it comes with the finer leathers which some would argue is more comfortable.

This is my first car with ventilated seats, I find them very disappointing.
My wife and I love the massaging seats though.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by SquareWheels

This is my first car with ventilated seats, I find them very disappointing.
My wife and I love the massaging seats though.

Massage is definitely a nice to have, but the intensity leaves a lot to be desired, but I do use it every now and then on a long trip. Definitely not a must have for me.

Ventilation is just a poor design. It actually makes the seat hotter in the summer with it on. So much so it feels like the heated seat is on. I have ventilation on my Infiniti and it actually works. BMW just blow already hot cabin air up your ass even though it actually sucks air in supposedly. Either way, it just doesn’t vetilate.

[mobilegun]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

It's a give and take situation. Sensatec (synthetic leather) and Dakota (entry level leather) are the only materials that do not offer ventilated seats and therefore have no pin cushion effect. Nappa and Merino, which are better leathers than Dakota only come with ventilated seats.

You are right, massage and ventilation is weak at best and pretty much useless, but it comes with the finer leathers which some would argue is more comfortable. If you really don't want these, I would definitely pick sensatec over dakota.

Pin cushion meaning perforation (just clarifying). I think my ideal situation would be massaging and no ventilation as to have solid leather without perforation but it sounds like Nappa/merino = perforated, regardless of ventilation option, in which case that wouldn't be what I think it is.

Alternatively what combinations exist to not have perf material?
Dakota and sensatec only(non ventilated due to non offered option)?

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by mobilegun

Pin cushion meaning perforation (just clarifying). I think my ideal situation would be massaging and no ventilation as to have solid leather without perforation but it sounds like Nappa/merino = perforated, regardless of ventilation option, in which case that wouldn't be what I think it is.

Alternatively what combinations exist to not have perf material?
Dakota and sensatec only(non ventilated due to non offered option)?

Yes, you are talking about all the tiny holes in the seat, right? That is what I am calling pin cushion. I think we are talking about the same thing.

To the best of my knowledge, the two materials I stated (Sensatec and Dakota) are the only seat material choices that are "flat" and come without ventilation. You can't get massage without ventilation.

[mobilegun]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

You can't get massage without ventilation.

Ok thanks. I wasn't sure about this part either, but good to know. The hunt continues... noticed you have an e39, how's it holding up (MT, presumably)?

[Dick_Lexus]

I have Nappa, no massage or ventilation, without perforations so it's available.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by mobilegun

Ok thanks. I wasn't sure about this part either, but good to know. The hunt continues... noticed you have an e39, how's it holding up (MT, presumably)?

AT, my biggest regret. Bought it off Bring a Trailer in 2018 with 90k miles. The MT's were going for $3-4k more, I cheaped out. It's holding, but it's a money pit.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Dick_Lexus

I have Nappa, no massage or ventilation, without perforations so it's available.

Yeah it was available separately.

I can’t keep the matrix in my head for it (much more important things to put there lol). But it was a requirement pre-LCI that you purchased the luxury seating package to get both Ventilation and Massage. That required Napa or higher. But you could order Napa without luxury seating package. I believe the LCI shifted it a bit where you could get the luxury seating package without massage or something like that.

[mobilegun]

Originally Posted by Dick_Lexus

I have Nappa, no massage or ventilation, without perforations so it's available.

Ha ok, well that's good to know. Perhaps I'm overthinking perforations and how they will wear over time...

Most of the posts tend to not express any desire or love for perforations due to wear, spills, general maintenance but maybe it's not that big of a deal?

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by mobilegun

Ha ok, well that's good to know. Perhaps I'm overthinking perforations and how they will wear over time...

Most of the posts tend to not express any desire or love for perforations due to wear, spills, general maintenance but maybe it's not that big of a deal?

What time horizon are we talking about here? And what risks are you worried about encountering? Tears? Or?

My Napa with perforations are holding up fine IMHO. I’ve had them for 4 years so far. I haven’t had any issues maintaining the seats.

I’d imagine they would be more risky in a spill, but I haven’t spilled anything into my seat and have no plans to!

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by mobilegun

Ha ok, well that's good to know. Perhaps I'm overthinking perforations and how they will wear over time...

Most of the posts tend to not express any desire or love for perforations due to wear, spills, general maintenance but maybe it's not that big of a deal?

Besides my 2003 E39, I can't remember a car in the last 10 years that did not have pin cushion leather for ventilation. The 2002 7-series was the first and I just hated the look of it at first. Reminded me of a Benz interior. It grows on you and I am really not sure it wears out any sooner or later than traditional flat leather.

Unless you are ordering new, I think you are going to have a really hard time finding a G30 with Nappa leather that is not ventilated. Also, keep in mind that ventilated/massage seats are part of a package that comes with other things you may want, such as a heated steering wheel. Don't quote me on the heated steering wheel, but you get the point.

[mobilegun]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

What time horizon are we talking about here? And what risks are you worried about encountering? Tears? Or?

My Napa with perforations are holding up fine IMHO. I’ve had them for 4 years so far. I haven’t had any issues maintaining the seats.

I’d imagine they would be more risky in a spill, but I haven’t spilled anything into my seat and have no plans to!

Likely 5 years+ but who knows. I typically don't swap cars frequently or reduce count (but space is starting to become a problem). Tearing or "stretch" type wear over time, not so much spills, as I'm with you on that point.

Sounds like it's probably not a worry and may be difficult to avoid based on package grouping as well (as Joe's mentioning).

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by mobilegun

Likely 5 years+ but who knows. I typically don't swap cars frequently or reduce count (but space is starting to become a problem). Tearing or "stretch" type wear over time, not so much spills, as I'm with you on that point.

Sounds like it's probably not a worry and may be difficult to avoid based on package grouping as well (as Joe's mentioning).

The way mine have held up for the last 4 years gives me confidence they’ll last me another 4 years easily. I am not planning to have my car less than 7 years. So I’m with you on that point.

I haven’t had any tearing or stretching yet. I do have creases more so on the driver’s side than the passenger since I’m a bit heavier than my wife But I can’t fault BMW for that

Yeah, Joe is likely spot on that it might be harder for find Napa without the Luxury Seating package due to the cost to add Napa. That said, if you are set on a certain option setup I would look for it and keep an eye open for a short bit as they do pop up.

Another way to get more details compared to what we have on the forum. Look for car listings across the 5-Series range that are high mileage with Napa seats. Look at the photos dealerships are posting and see if you can spot the wear you’re worried about. Not perfect, but this is better than us here on the forums where we are more likely to maintain our interior more than most. Those pictures will give you a more “realistic” wear yardstick as it will capture those who never did anything at all to the seats in 60K+ miles.

[adhrp]

My Nappa seats are fine at 4 years and I don't do much to maintain them (i.e. no products, polishing, etc) other than keep dirt off them. But damn this leather is so delicate/sensitive that you have to be very careful with how you handle it. Dakota was so hassle-free but also not as nice as Nappa...another give or take situation as Joe mentioned.

[tsbrown]

Pre-LCI 2019 540i here with nappa luxury/comfort multi contour seats and no massage and no ventilation. So, yeah, they were separate options then. I love my seats…comfortable for short and long trips and the nappa still looks new after 41k miles. Can’t recommend these enough.

[Mandingo9]

Also note that the ventilated portions of the nappa seats aren’t nappa, it’s a lower quality but stronger leather.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Dick_Lexus

I have Nappa, no massage or ventilation, without perforations so it's available.

It's that way here, too, where everything is configurable.

I prefer Dakota or the cloth/Alcantara combo. Dakota is the hardest wearing and none of the leathers available are great quality. BMW is a "premium" brand, but still mass market.

We aren't talking about a Roller.

[GSMCCASH]

I have a 2023 Napa with ventilation and heated seats and massaging. I find the seats are extremely comfortable, the heat and ventilation work great.

The massage seems to a bit more intense and covers a wider range than the massage mechanism in my 2018 Explorer Platinum.

I‘m happy with the functionality and results so far.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by GSMCCASH

I have a 2023 Napa with ventilation and heated seats and massaging. I find the seats are extremely comfortable, the heat and ventilation work great.

The massage seems to a bit more intense and covers a wider range than the massage mechanism in my 2018 Explorer Platinum.

I‘m happy with the functionality and results so far.

Yeah, I've had no issues with comfort with the seats and am not really sure what people complain about, but then I haven't experienced the ones without the massage function so maybe I don't know what I am missing. Heat works great, ventilation seems to be working well in the sense that I never have my shirt stuck to the seat on a hot summer day.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Yeah, I've had no issues with comfort with the seats and am not really sure what people complain about, but then I haven't experienced the ones without the massage function so maybe I don't know what I am missing. Heat works great, ventilation seems to be working well in the sense that I never have my shirt stuck to the seat on a hot summer day.

Some want the ventilated seats to feel like they are sitting atop the propellor of an airboat… And for the massage chair to feel like those mall massage chairs…

I am also happy with my seats.