[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

There was an old Himalayan Yogi I met in my travels to India. He said two souls argue and shout at each other because they are distant. So they are actually shouting across a distance to be closer. What will bring you closer? People get their wires crossed. Thich Nhat Hahn a Buddhist monk said it best: "Are you sure?" So when the mind goes off on one about how she hates you or thinks you are a waste of time... is it true? Can you evidence it? The other thing is asking someone: "What can I do to make your day better?" You've probably done the apology thing unless the dust has settled. Couples argue all the time. Sometimes it can feel never ending and you might feel beat up thinking it's you or you'll never find someone... sometimes people need a breather.

You haven't stated whether you miss her and want to make a go of things. Do you? Did you enjoy her company? Did she make you a better person?

Relationships are hard:

Don't lose yourself in it though. Women come and go (or men for some). Take some headspace. Reflect on it. Pray on it if that's your thing. Give her some space. If you miss her send her some flowers. She might come back. She might not. Accept whatever happens and flow with it. Relationships are shit if you have to force them. That's a relationshit! Take some time out for yourself.

Here's hoping you get some makeup sex and if not then hey I heard Santa has three ho's!

We've talked.....at great lengths I might add. She is well aware of my feelings and I hers. The problem is the disagreements. I tend to be calm and collected and speak clearly. Her: If any disagreement is discussed, it's instantly, yelling, screaming, attitude, etc. Of course this attitude brings out the asshole in me.....I'm a scorpio, so my inner asshole is Dennis Leary on meth. We are genuinely trying to make it work. Last nights argument was over me asking her to come over and stay the night. After 2 hours of arguing, she finally came over; but the entire thing seemed strained at that point.

[Soul_Glo]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

We've talked.....at great lengths I might add. She is well aware of my feelings and I hers. The problem is the disagreements. I tend to be calm and collected and speak clearly. Her: If any disagreement is discussed, it's instantly, yelling, screaming, attitude, etc. Of course this attitude brings out the asshole in me.....I'm a scorpio, so my inner asshole is Dennis Leary on meth. We are genuinely trying to make it work. Last nights argument was over me asking her to come over and stay the night. After 2 hours of arguing, she finally came over; but the entire thing seemed strained at that point.

Trying to understand how an invite to stay the night can lead to an argument.

Was it something like this?

Chalking it up to interpersonal differences at the moment. I wonder what she has going on in her life unless these are true colors. How long have you known her or be courting?

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

Trying to understand how an invite to stay the night can lead to an argument.

Was it something like this?

Chalking it up to interpersonal differences at the moment. I wonder what she has going on in her life unless these are true colors. How long have you known her or be courting?

Sorry, can't watch the video at the moment. It went like this: (Sunday Eve)

Me: Would you like to come stay the night?
Her: I can't sorry.
Me: Tomorrow?
Her: Do you want to come stay here?
Me: Sure, if that's what I have to do to see you, then yes.
Me on Monday after her pissing me off: I won't be coming over tonight, don't want to make things worse.

I ended up going to her house just to see her and not stay the night. Before I left, I asked if she was interested in coming to stay with me Tuesday. Because I didn't stay the night Monday, she instantly refuses. I asked her just to let me know when she might have time to see me to let me know. Armageddon ensued after.

I've known her for 20 years. She was the hot friend of the first wife, that I secretly wanted to bang back then; apparently it was the same on her end. 20 years later and divorces all around, I asked her on a date, we were naked 2 hours later and have been for the last 4 1/2 years. Everything has been great up until a few months ago. Maybe one argument a month for the last 3 months, so still nothing major, but they are getting more intense and she is getting more aggressive for whatever reason.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Its that you are an asshole and you are bothered by that realization so you are burying it deep in your subconscious. That's what you haven't been able to identify or articulate yet. I'm just being helpful here. Next time, just tell her that you are an asshole and you'll be amazed at how quickly you two find common ground to start from!

(But its true, I find that with myself too...I know little bits and pieces of what is bothering me, but it doesn't seem like any of them individually justify why I'm taking the scorched earth course of action I'm currently taking.)



Ah, communication. I cannot stress how important I think that is. And if it isn't occurring, well, that's a big deal I think. But I don't know (aside from what you've already done) how to show her why it is so important.

I too prefer to deal with the issue that night, though I've learned that this will almost never happen. Seems to need to "season" for a few days, then we discuss. And by discuss, I don't always mean calmly. I've also learned that when I bring up a perceived slight that bothered me, there was something I did before that which caused her to act the way she did...so there is little point in bringing up issues unless I wish to engage in a fight. Which, sometimes, I do. Because ultimately, behaviour does change, to some degree. Its just I have to go through the fight first. Which I don't enjoy.

I don't know - good luck, I hope she is able to recognize how important this is to you, but since I'm somewhat in the same boat and been beating my head against a wall it feels like, I'm not overly hopeful. You find something that works, do let me know!

I'm not an asshole...not that you would know, since you don't know me at all. If you really think that you're an asshole, then I applaud your self-awareness but don't try to pull me into that cauldron of woe just so you'll have some company.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

I'm not an asshole...not that you would know, since you don't know me at all. If you really think that you're an asshole, then I applaud your self-awareness but don't try to pull me into that cauldron of woe just so you'll have some company.

But misery loves company!!

I was being tongue in cheek there as it is no doubt what the girl would like to hear. I doubt you are an asshole based only on your posts which in and of themselves is really not proof either way...just an indication. But they are the only things I have to go on.

[Soul_Glo]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

Sorry, can't watch the video at the moment. It went like this: (Sunday Eve)

Me: Would you like to come stay the night?
Her: I can't sorry.
Me: Tomorrow?
Her: Do you want to come stay here?
Me: Sure, if that's what I have to do to see you, then yes.
Me on Monday after her pissing me off: I won't be coming over tonight, don't want to make things worse.

I ended up going to her house just to see her and not stay the night. Before I left, I asked if she was interested in coming to stay with me Tuesday. Because I didn't stay the night Monday, she instantly refuses. I asked her just to let me know when she might have time to see me to let me know. Armageddon ensued after.

I've known her for 20 years. She was the hot friend of the first wife, that I secretly wanted to bang back then; apparently it was the same on her end. 20 years later and divorces all around, I asked her on a date, we were naked 2 hours later and have been for the last 4 1/2 years. Everything has been great up until a few months ago. Maybe one argument a month for the last 3 months, so still nothing major, but they are getting more intense and she is getting more aggressive for whatever reason.

I'd ask her. What's bugging her? Is there anything you can do to help? You've probably been there though. Nothing is smooth sailing. Arguments happen but intense arguments. Something is up. Early menopause. Lost interest. Bored. Sometimes women just want some space and down time. Frustrated with her own life and taking it out on you. You've known her that long. She'll either bounce back and come round or it wasn't meant to be. Next time you do bang though. Bang her like your life depends on it. How do you see it? Miss her? Want to be with her? What do you feel for her?

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

The lack of communication is what gets me. Then when I try to explain how the lack of communication causes problems, then suddenly I'm an asshole. She's made it clear that she wants to be with me, but rather than talk things out and move on, she refuses to tell me what's bothering her, let's it escalate to a point where she is upset and I'm upset because she won't discuss it with me (or waits for a week or more). By the time I actually find out what's bothering her, I'm pretty well pissed off about the entire situation. Odd behavior from a couple that never had an argument for the first 3 1/2 years.

I think it's okay to wait a bit to bring up something that's pissing you off. But it's not okay to stew about something for days and then launch into a tirade.

I'm reflecting back on an uncomfortable exchange with my previous girlfriend, where she said something hurtful and perplexing completely out of left field that I needed a little time to process. About a half-hour later she said "Hey, you've been quiet...is everything okay?" At which point the conversation commenced, regarding what she'd said. I didn't want to over-react in the moment that the hurtful words tumbled out of her mouth, and say anything that I couldn't take back. We had a conversation then, wherein I described what had offended me and she offered her customary non-apology ("I totally disavow any responsibility for anything that I said that offended you; but I'm definitely sorry for having to have this uncomfortable conversation where you call me out on what I said and how it pissed you off.").

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

But misery loves company!!

I was being tongue in cheek there as it is no doubt what the girl would like to hear. I doubt you are an asshole based only on your posts which in and of themselves is really not proof either way...just an indication. But they are the only things I have to go on.

No decent, mature, self-aware woman with the least shred of humility would insist that a man concede that he's an asshole. No man with any self-respect would offer such a concession. If that's how things work in your experience, then you and I have very little common experience about which to converse.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

No decent, mature, self-aware woman with the least shred of humility would insist that a man concede that he's an asshole. No man with any self-respect would offer such a concession. If that's how things work in your experience, then you and I have very little common experience about which to converse.

Mea culpa.

I intended it to be humourous and it is clear that either my choice of wording or the subject matter itself was poorly chosen. For the offense conveyed, I apologize, as it was not my intention and hopefully I will craft responses better in the future.

[King Rudi]

I've ran the gambit of asking questions of "What can I do?", "Is there something I'm missing?" etc. As of now, I've played all the concerned boyfriend cards that I'm going to play. I've learned in past relationships that humility and vulnerability are important, but going full retard will get you viewed as weak and then everything changes. Being a man is synonymous with being an asshole, regardless of whether or not we are indeed assholes. I love her and I know that she loves me. I honestly think that she is worried about the depth of our relationship and she is concerned about getting hurt by me. I'm a different man now, but herein lies roughly 338 pages of exactly why she should be concerned about being hurt by me. I've had quite the past with the ladies, however; my mindset is different these days. I'm only concerned with her and what she needs from me. I'm sure things will get better soon. It's Christmas, she has three kids, she just got a promotion at work and is currently training for her new position (which has her stressed), her mom is driving her insane and her ex-husband is nothing shy of a 40 year child, who goes out of his way to make her life harder than it needs to be due to his own insecurities.

[JP10]

Time and space. If you both feel the same everything will work out eventually. Hakuna Matata.

[Soul_Glo]

The magic words: I'm not like that baby I'm different.
Or: I'm not going anywhere.

As for these 338 pages and counting. There are many dicks out there in the world and you don't sound like the cactus! I reckon this has been a useful thread to many whether they own up or not.

People sometimes get hurt in love but you gotta try. What if she doesn't get hurt. What if it's all wine and roses. Any time you have a crappy thought find the opposite.

If it's meant to be it will be.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

I've ran the gambit of asking questions of "What can I do?", "Is there something I'm missing?" etc. As of now, I've played all the concerned boyfriend cards that I'm going to play. I've learned in past relationships that humility and vulnerability are important, but going full retard will get you viewed as weak and then everything changes. Being a man is synonymous with being an asshole, regardless of whether or not we are indeed assholes. I love her and I know that she loves me. I honestly think that she is worried about the depth of our relationship and she is concerned about getting hurt by me. I'm a different man now, but herein lies roughly 338 pages of exactly why she should be concerned about being hurt by me. I've had quite the past with the ladies, however; my mindset is different these days. I'm only concerned with her and what she needs from me. I'm sure things will get better soon. It's Christmas, she has three kids, she just got a promotion at work and is currently training for her new position (which has her stressed), her mom is driving her insane and her ex-husband is nothing shy of a 40 year child, who goes out of his way to make her life harder than it needs to be due to his own insecurities.

It's noble and admirable and endearing to admit your shortcomings and missteps. I aspire to have the humility to own my failings. We're all inspired by someone who "fesses-up" and comes clean. Humility is so becoming.

But recognize that there's a difference between accepting your contribution to "the shit" and accepting sole or primary blame for "the shit" because the other person isn't ready to own their share of it.

And the past is...the past. You both have one. We all do. We're not 15 any more. Focus forward, not backwards.

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

And the past is...the past. You both have one. We all do. We're not 15 any more. Focus forward, not backwards.

I think for some people it's very easy to do this and I for one admire people who can let shit go easily. I feel like relationships of any form could cut out 3/4 of the bs if they followed this.

King Rudi it sounds like she has some buried shit she's never dealt with and the stress you mentioned has possibly exacerbated it. Also, it's not of any help that she can't recognize and own it. You can't make anyone happy until they deal with whatever they are wrestling with inside. I think at this point it sounds like you have to decide whether or not you want to continue to ride that train. The one thing you shouldn't do is concede to her inability to own her shit. Her actions will continue and you will just end up on a hamster wheel of fights that are truly a waste of time.

[longm1985]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

And the past is...the past. You both have one. We all do. We're not 15 any more. Focus forward, not backwards.

Holy crap is this true. Draw from it to make better decisions moving forward, but don't dwell on it.

Thanks to all my mental health issues, I have such a bad memory that many chunks of my past are gone and if my wife has done anything really that bad I have no recollection of it. I'm sure she appreciates this.

[Soul_Glo]

WWLD

What would lups do.

Lups the kingdom of our king appears to be under attack. Should he draw the bridge and add more alligators to the moat.

[CTinline-six]

I am an asshole.



Seriously though, I hope things get better.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

WWLD

What would lups do.

Lups the kingdom of our king appears to be under attack. Should he draw the bridge and add more alligators to the moat.

Lups is actually a man, so I doubt this will help.

[andrewmr]

Originally Posted by King Rudi

Shit, at this point I'd be happy just to be able to have a conversation with the girlfriend that doesn't end an argument. We have entered troubled waters and trying to fix things. Advise is, as always, appreciated.

Back story, everything was great until last weekend. We ran into some issues that weren't really issues, but the handling of said non-issues created massive issues. As of now, we officially broke up last Sunday. We have talked and drove each other insane for over a week now. It's crazy how quickly shit gets out of hand, over nothing.

I'm betting it's not "nothing" to her.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by JP10

Time and space. If you both feel the same everything will work out eventually. Hakuna Matata.

I agree and disagree with this. I think it depends on the persons in said relationship. I've seen this work and go horribly awry. I believe it goes back to communication in order for this to work. Crossed wires, time and space can wreak havoc for some. thank you for the words sir. I think we are on the mend.

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

The magic words: I'm not like that baby I'm different.
Or: I'm not going anywhere.

As for these 338 pages and counting. There are many dicks out there in the world and you don't sound like the cactus! I reckon this has been a useful thread to many whether they own up or not.

People sometimes get hurt in love but you gotta try. What if she doesn't get hurt. What if it's all wine and roses. Any time you have a crappy thought find the opposite.

If it's meant to be it will be.

My only thought on the first comments of "Baby, I'm different" everyone says that.....everyone. I'm about as polar opposite of most people that you can imagine. By this rational, I don't draw attention to what makes me different. Those that know me see it without self proclamation. I appreciate your kind words. I know how we feel about each other and we all run into rough patches. Aside from some shitty things being said on both sides, out of frustration, nothing major has happened to deem this unresolvable. We'll continue to do what we do, make some slight adjustments out of consideration for the other and see how things work from there.

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

It's noble and admirable and endearing to admit your shortcomings and missteps. I aspire to have the humility to own my failings. We're all inspired by someone who "fesses-up" and comes clean. Humility is so becoming.

But recognize that there's a difference between accepting your contribution to "the shit" and accepting sole or primary blame for "the shit" because the other person isn't ready to own their share of it.

And the past is...the past. You both have one. We all do. We're not 15 any more. Focus forward, not backwards.

I tend to live my life by the mentality that if I don't want people throwing stones, not to give them the stones; in the same mindset, I give so many stones that it's pointless throwing them. I call myself out on my own mistakes and I'm very transparent. Most people don't know how to take me. I'd rather be honest about something and upfront, so that people can't talk shit. I own it. This is also a dangerous personality to have if your heart or mind isn't right.

As for the acceptance of and primary blame of "the shit", this is the battle that we have been fighting. She was displaying no signs of empathy. She was upset about how she feels, but couldn't see mine. This was a struggle. I feel like I finally succeeded here as she gave me a genuine, heart-felt apology last night. Progression was made. Thank you for the advice!

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I think for some people it's very easy to do this and I for one admire people who can let shit go easily. I feel like relationships of any form could cut out 3/4 of the bs if they followed this.

King Rudi it sounds like she has some buried shit she's never dealt with and the stress you mentioned has possibly exacerbated it. Also, it's not of any help that she can't recognize and own it. You can't make anyone happy until they deal with whatever they are wrestling with inside. I think at this point it sounds like you have to decide whether or not you want to continue to ride that train. The one thing you shouldn't do is concede to her inability to own her shit. Her actions will continue and you will just end up on a hamster wheel of fights that are truly a waste of time.

Thank you. This is exactly how I feel about the entire situation. I actually mentioned this to a close friend, a few days ago. Oddly enough, she has some insecurities that she wrestles with. I say "oddly enough" because most would look at her and try to figure out how she could be insecure. She is gorgeous and has a body that I only see online or in magazines. She is a great person all around, but those insecurities, and trying to keep them hidden, is what is keeping her withdrawn to a degree. These are the things that I feel like either make or break a relationship. A person could give me no reason not to trust them, but still have some shady vibes being projected, simply over not wanting to be embarrassed. Embarrassment and humility are very important in all relationships. We've been together for 4 1/2 years and I still haven't heard her fart. I respect this and question it at the same time, if that makes sense.

I think that working on, whatever she has suppressed, together will create more trust between the two of us and allow her to become more open/vulnerable. If this doesn't change, regardless of anything else that are positives in our relationship, I'll have to walk away. I'm a catch, not a convenience. I'm also not conceited, I just know my value/worth.

Thank you Rebekah.

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

WWLD

What would lups do.

Lups the kingdom of our king appears to be under attack. Should he draw the bridge and add more alligators to the moat.

This shit is about to get interesting.....and fast. Lups drop some pearls of wisdom for me. I feel like Lups should be a life coach.

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I am an asshole.



Seriously though, I hope things get better.

I always say that I'm an asshole, but only because I'm a typical type A. I speak fast, I walk fast, I'm direct and to the point. This instantly makes people think you are an asshole. In reality, I spend more time considering other people and basically trying to get my shit done without being in their way. I'm this way because this is how I wish other people were toward me.

Thank you good sir.

Originally Posted by andrewmr

[/B]

I'm betting it's not "nothing" to her.

She admitted to how stupid the entire situation was. What made her upset, aside from whatever insecurity that she has suppressed (if we're being real here), was my reaction to her not being forthcoming with information that could be detrimental to our relationship. That was, in fact, something to her. In her defense, she isn't wrong. I'm a scorpio and we aren't known for being easy people to deal with, once we feel like we've been slighted. She is justified in her feelings based off how I reacted, yet; my reaction was completely justified based off her withholding of information......or so I feel.


In closing, thank you to all for replying. I greatly appreciate it. As of last night, make up sex has ensued.....and not that vanilla shit either. We have reached an acceptable outlet to vent frustrations that is mutually agreed upon by both parties.

[Tommy-G]

Bad:
Used to work at a BMW dealer and every Friday we (me, mechanics & service advisors) would hit this strip club for happy hour. I fell for a shot girl and we started hanging out. My friend & a few techs were going to the Bahamas for a trip and she was super interested in details b/c she had never been out of the US. I offered to loan her the money as it was a week away. We went and she ended up snorting lines all weekend with one of the other girls and I never even got to touch her tiddies. I never asked for my money nor called her again.

Good:
Just got out of a 4 yr relationship and had to travel to Vegas for a BMW conference. My first trip to Vegas and I was mentally a wreck. A friend told me the hot clubs but I had no desire to go out. As we landed (at night) I immediately got wood seeing all the lights and glitz, instantly forgetting about my ex.
We checked in to the Venettian, changed and immediately hit the strip. Rolled into Rum Jungle about midnight and after 6 Long Islands started chatting with some girl.
got her number and asked her to dinner the next night and the night after. We stayed at Studio 54 until 3am and she hopped a flight at 5am home.
We talked for a month and I had to see her again. We met again in Miami for a vacation and months later she moved to NJ with me. We got married in 2007 and have been together 16yrs

(left a lot out b/c no one reads long stories)

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

Good:
Just got out of a 4 yr relationship and had to travel to Vegas for a BMW conference. My first trip to Vegas and I was mentally a wreck. A friend told me the hot clubs but I had no desire to go out. As we landed (at night) I immediately got wood seeing all the lights and glitz, instantly forgetting about my ex.
We checked in to the Venettian, changed and immediately hit the strip. Rolled into Rum Jungle about midnight and after 6 Long Islands started chatting with some girl.
got her number and asked her to dinner the next night and the night after. We stayed at Studio 54 until 3am and she hopped a flight at 5am home.
We talked for a month and I had to see her again. We met again in Miami for a vacation and months later she moved to NJ with me. We got married in 2007 and have been together 16yrs

(left a lot out b/c no one reads long stories)

That's a great story sir! (BTW, we read long stories in here)