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      02-12-2020, 06:04 AM   #1431
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Originally Posted by Fitz335 View Post
So I recently looked at a 2020 Supra and a 2018 M240i (10k miles).

I ended up buying the BMW.

Same engine, 30k cheaper, has back seats and a trunk, and you don't feel claustrophobic in the car. Plus I don't bang my skull on the frame every time I get in the M240i.

Oh and the biggest reason, the M240i comes in Manual.

I'm not going to knock anyone who buys a Supra, because I think they're nice cars and I love the rear end, but I just don't see the current appeal against the comparable BMWs. If I had a choice between a 2020 M240i and a Supra, I'd still get the M240i.

Just my 2 cents.
I feel the same, however, if they made a Z4 coupe in manual with the b58, and got the styling right, that would be another story
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      02-12-2020, 09:45 AM   #1432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz335 View Post
So I recently looked at a 2020 Supra and a 2018 M240i (10k miles).

I ended up buying the BMW.

Same engine, 30k cheaper, has back seats and a trunk, and you don't feel claustrophobic in the car. Plus I don't bang my skull on the frame every time I get in the M240i.

Oh and the biggest reason, the M240i comes in Manual.

I'm not going to knock anyone who buys a Supra, because I think they're nice cars and I love the rear end, but I just don't see the current appeal against the comparable BMWs. If I had a choice between a 2020 M240i and a Supra, I'd still get the M240i.

Just my 2 cents.
But how does an M240i perform v a Supra?
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      02-12-2020, 10:00 AM   #1433
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Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast View Post
But how does an M240i perform v a Supra?

Throw a tune on the M240i and they're the same car. 3.8-3.9 second 0-60.
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      02-12-2020, 10:02 AM   #1434
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I forgot to mention the 2nd biggest deal breaker after the manual. The wind buffeting issue and no sunroof.

That last one is personal preference obviously, but not being able to drive your 50k dollar car with the windows down is ridiculous.
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      02-12-2020, 10:07 AM   #1435
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Supra is a good car, but like others have mentioned I wouldn't buy one for the styling, lack of practicality, buffeting or auto-only trans. I do wish BMW would let Toyota tune their steering or learn from them, because the Supra's steering and feel is superior to that of BMW's.
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      02-12-2020, 10:17 AM   #1436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz335 View Post
Throw a tune on the M240i and they're the same car. 3.8-3.9 second 0-60.
Throw a tune on the Supra and it would smoke the M240i.
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      02-12-2020, 10:36 AM   #1437
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Throw a tune on the Supra and it would smoke the M240i.
Sure... But the 240i starts at 5k cheaper than the Supra, AND can be had in manual.
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      02-12-2020, 10:54 AM   #1438
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Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er? $5k might get you a properly sorted suspension. Face it, the Supra is a smaller, better tuned and more focused car. It's been putting up faster track times than the M2C on many tracks. No one has ever said that about an M240i.

I agree that having a manual available is nice, but you'd still have to factor in the price of an LSD, and of course it would be slower. Sure seems like comparing the Supra to an M2C would be a better starting point.
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      02-12-2020, 11:45 AM   #1439
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er?
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
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      02-12-2020, 11:50 AM   #1440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er?
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
I owned one for four years. Awful. The 1M fixed it all, but that was just fixing all the things that they dumbed down from the 3er in the first place.

Stupidly harsh, way too stiff rebound control, no LSD, narrower track than it should have had, sway bar ratios were all sub optimal and the absurdly heavy steering. Even the six puck brakes didn't work properly and ate their seals under mild driving.

Every time we had an E9x loaner I realized what a mistake we'd made in picking that car. Worse, I drove my Z3 M Coupe every day. Kind of funny when a car with rear trailing arms and two piston sliding brakes works so much better.

This was with PSS non run flats. The stock RFTs went in a hurry, they just amplified the bad though, removing them helped, but certainly didn't fix anything.
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      02-12-2020, 12:23 PM   #1441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
Anyone who’s taken a stock 135 to the track or hit an on-ramp quicker then a SUV finds out pretty quick that they have a tendency to push. Even Randy here talks about its characteristics in stock form. Most owners can admit that they’re not fine handling sports coupes straight from the factory for many of the reasons Red has stated.
A tune quickly, cheaply removes his complaints about unsatisfying top end power and some suspension mods make the push issue almost disappear.
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      02-12-2020, 01:06 PM   #1442
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I didn't complain about the power. That N54 was a peach. Much better than our later N55 and I actually still like it more than the B58. Ours was JB4'ed, but even stock those are still great motors.
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      02-12-2020, 01:07 PM   #1443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
You are in a very small minority if you think the 1er doesn't handle well.
Anyone who’s taken a stock 135 to the track or hit an on-ramp quicker then a SUV finds out pretty quick that they have a tendency to push. Even Randy here talks about its characteristics in stock form. Most owners can admit that they’re not fine handling sports coupes straight from the factory for many of the reasons Red has stated.
A tune quickly, cheaply removes his complaints about unsatisfying top end power and some suspension mods make the push issue almost disappear.
I was just referring in general to the car's handling not specifically on track.
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      02-12-2020, 01:24 PM   #1444
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I specifically mentioned on-ramps to demonstrate that the handling characteristics also apply for the street. I’ve been around this forum since 2010 before becoming a member when I bought my 135 and many here have complained about the cars street handling shortcomings and made efforts to successfully correct them, I wasn’t just referring to hot shoes on a track.
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Last edited by N54Yankee; 02-12-2020 at 02:11 PM..
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      02-12-2020, 02:19 PM   #1445
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Like I said, just swapping the E9x parts back on helps immensely. I really don't understand why they handicapped the 1er so heavily. Hopefully they didn't do that again to the base 2er.
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      02-12-2020, 03:09 PM   #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz335 View Post
Throw a tune on the M240i and they're the same car. 3.8-3.9 second 0-60.
I'm talking st v stock.

No sunroof option for Supra? I'd be out too!

It should have been targa
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      02-12-2020, 03:30 PM   #1447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Does the 2er still have the same terrible handling of the 1er?
In BMW's own testing, the M235 on PSS tires and the optional LSD outran the 1M on the Ring. Overall, the M235/240 are better handlers than the 1 series for a multitude of reasons. In a Road Track comparison test, the M235 6MT/LSD was less than 0.5 seconds behind the M2 (N55) 6MT on a 2 mile road course with the same professional driver. The M235 is shod with narrower tires, smaller brakes, and less power than the M2. From the seat of the pants, the M2 feels more dialed in and focused than the M235/240, but the numbers don't show a huge difference. Simply adding 245 width front tires in place of the 225s makes a big difference. Lastly, most M235/240s are Xdrives with open diffs and narrow run flats. The handling would be pretty terrible by sports car standards.
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      02-12-2020, 03:41 PM   #1448
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I didn't complain about the power. That N54 was a peach. Much better than our later N55 and I actually still like it more than the B58. Ours was JB4'ed, but even stock those are still great motors.
I continue to scratch my head about this N54 "power". The 2014+ EWG N55 in the M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq stock and the M2 N55 makes around 330whp/370wtq (Dynojet numbers). Even better, the power peaks at 6200rpms and holds 90%+ of that power to 6700rpms. Show me a stock N54 that makes that sort of power or doesn't lose a ton power after 5500rpms. In tuned form (pump gas or ethanol) and assuming you don't swap out turbos, the EWG N55s tends to make a little more HP, more TQ, and it's power band is wider. In general, making for a quicker and faster car.
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      02-12-2020, 03:53 PM   #1449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I didn't complain about the power. That N54 was a peach. Much better than our later N55 and I actually still like it more than the B58. Ours was JB4'ed, but even stock those are still great motors.
I continue to scratch my head about this N54 "power". The 2014+ EWG N55 in the M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq stock and the M2 N55 makes around 330whp/370wtq (Dynojet numbers). Even better, the power peaks at 6200rpms and holds 90%+ of that power to 6700rpms. Show me a stock N54 that makes that sort of power or doesn't lose a ton power after 5500rpms. In tuned form (pump gas or ethanol) and assuming you don't swap out turbos, the EWG N55s tends to make a little more HP, more TQ, and it's power band is wider. In general, making for a quicker and faster car.
Never seen a stock N55 hold power up high. This is base to base, you should see similar comparisons to the 1M vs M2 non comp curves too. The S55 and S58 clearly don't have these shortcomings.

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...N54-vs-N55.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/u...ue-750x500.jpg[/IMG]
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      02-12-2020, 04:17 PM   #1450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I was just referring in general to the car's handling not specifically on track.
What is "handling" if it's not specifically on track? Track is the ultimate gauge in how a car "handles."
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      02-12-2020, 04:24 PM   #1451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I was just referring in general to the car's handling not specifically on track.
What is "handling" if it's not specifically on track? Track is the ultimate gauge in how a car "handles."
Well yes a track may be the "ultimate gauge", but the majority of owners will likely never or rarely take their cars to the track and will end up daily driving them, so I meant handling as to how it is on backroads, and general road driving. Handling is a more general term, when most people discuss a car's handling, it isn't referring to how it does on track. the 1 and 2-series (non-M's) are road cars first, track second.
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      02-12-2020, 04:32 PM   #1452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Well yes a track may be the "ultimate gauge", but the majority of owners will likely never or rarely take their cars to the track and will end up daily driving them, so I meant handling as to how it is on backroads, and general road driving. Handling is a more general term, the 1 and 2-series (non-M's) are road cars first, track second.
That's GARBAGE. Only people who have zero clue as to what "handling" means would say that.

A car that handles well on the street should handle the track well, and vice versa. A car that can't "handle" track duties will drive like sh*t on the street, period. There's no magical car that handles great on the street, but can't handle a turn at speed on track.

This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard on here. Different standards for street and track handling? People who don't take their car on the track therefore HANDLING doesn't matter to them because it's only used for the streets?

Might as well all buy and drive Priuses.
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