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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum G30 Pricing, Ordering, Tracking, European Delivery invoice pricing, dealer holdbacks, true dealer cost

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      01-21-2020, 01:27 PM   #1
mtpope
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invoice pricing, dealer holdbacks, true dealer cost

Hey everyone, first post over here but I've been lurking for awhile and appreciate the wisdom of the crowd you all bring to this place.

I'm starting to think about my next vehicle, looking at a new 540i, and have been reaching out to a few dealers for quotes. So far most of the back and forth on pricing has been of the "invoice minus $xxx (before incentives)" variety. So I'm wondering if folks have a reliable source for obtaining invoice pricing. It appears to be roughly 94% of base model pricing plus 92% of option pricing. Can anyone confirm or provide more detail if that's inaccurate?

Also, considering that dealers' opening offers have been significantly below invoice, I assume there is a dealer holdback or some other incentive available to them -- do we know what and how much that is? I realize most of the deals folks are posting are shown in terms of a discount to MSRP, but for purposes of negotiating, it would be helpful to know what the dealer's true margins are so that I can calibrate my approach to provide for a reasonable profit on a sale without getting taken advantage of.

last, I'm located in the bay area (northern California). from browsing the forums so far, it looks like SoCal dealers are pretty aggressively offering deals, and I'm not opposed to getting a car from one of them and driving it home. but if anyone has suggestions for high volume dealers in the bay that are willing to deal please post up.
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      01-22-2020, 01:34 PM   #2
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It's too hard to keep up with pricing incentives etc. Maybe I don't get the best deals but I at least look at the pricing thread and see:

(530e) $1250 lease credit
(530e) $4000 finance credit
(540) $2500 lease credit
(540) $4500 finance credit
(M550) $2000 lease credit
(M550) $4500 finance credit
(All 5 Series) $2000 loyalty credit

Then I ask my guy to make me a deal at invoice less available incentives. I'm going in this weekend after he told me that there's $500 incentive from BMW for Chinese New Year which I didn't see advertised. And I'll get $1,000 back from BMWCCA.

I've seen plenty of discussion about dealer back end money, bonuses, etc. and you can research all that to squeeze harder if it's worth your time.
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      01-22-2020, 11:08 PM   #3
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Dealers in the Bay Area will tell you they are selling you at a loss if they go even a dollar below invoice.

We all know that isn't true. Valid questions here from OP, and I am sure this is all a guarded secret on dealer holdback otherwise no dealer will be able to make money off us savvy forum members. Trust me those sales guys and GMs don't like us

Interested to know as well if you find out
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      01-23-2020, 02:06 PM   #4
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First, congrats on your choice of a new 540i. It's a great car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpope View Post
... to provide for a reasonable profit on a sale
I'm curious what you and others think is a "reasonable profit" on a $60,000 car.

I'm not being facetious, but just curious especially since none of us actually know what they actually pay for any actual car and how much actual money they actually make on us since, at least in my case, they are always "losing money on this deal".

Really, when shopping, I try not to worry about what their profit margin is, just simply find the best price out the door.
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      02-17-2020, 03:19 AM   #5
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I always focus on dealer discount (before any mfr driven rebates). Bigger the better for you. Best chances of better discount if you reach out toward tail end of the month on stale inventory.
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      03-04-2020, 11:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccuser111 View Post
I always focus on dealer discount (before any mfr driven rebates). Bigger the better for you. Best chances of better discount if you reach out toward tail end of the month on stale inventory.
How is this something new from age-old stale advice that doesn't really work in today's market in the same simplest way as said.

Very similar to 'oh i sent out emails to all local dealers and I got my car from the lowest price offer'.

Tell us more about how do you assess dealer discount is good.
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      03-07-2020, 03:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
Dealers in the Bay Area will tell you they are selling you at a loss if they go even a dollar below invoice.

We all know that isn't true. Valid questions here from OP, and I am sure this is all a guarded secret on dealer holdback otherwise no dealer will be able to make money off us savvy forum members. Trust me those sales guys and GMs don't like us

Interested to know as well if you find out
It's not a secret. Dealerships can EARN operating money based on monthly metrics and customer service scores. If they don't hit it, they don't earn it. So yes, a dollar over invoice could be a loss if they don't hit it.
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      03-07-2020, 04:05 PM   #8
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I think the only way to figure out is to negotiate. There is a lot going on for the dealer that can make it very complicated to figure of the “lowest you can go”. For instance, a dealer may be getting an incentive from BMW NA due to meeting metrics or holdback or something else entirely. A dealer could also accept a modest loss knowing the customer regularly services at the dealership so they’ll recoup the loss in service work. They may also be able to clawback a discount in finance office pork (warranties or dealership financing pushes).

I negotiated my purchase price and was very sure it was a good deal at the time as no other dealership in my area came close and they freaked out once they saw my buyers order with the final price and I had the selling dealership trying to rollback the deal. But that was a rare pricing error on their part (they priced it as a 2019 and were hoping to keep it off the lot since the 2020 cars were due soon). Dealers love to poach a sale so you can negotiate your best price then cross that by other dealers and see where you end up.

Just be very aware that a dealership can try to claw something back in pork. I turned the pork down and didn’t let the dealership steal my trade either...
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      03-08-2020, 05:18 PM   #9
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Hi San Francisco area here. My local dealer would not budge off msrp for my M340. After shopping around and searching this forum I found a good deal at Fremont Bmw. 8.5% off plus insensitives, about 10k off. DM me if you want contact info. I do not know what he will offer on a 5er
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      03-08-2020, 06:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZulaM5 View Post
It's not a secret. Dealerships can EARN operating money based on monthly metrics and customer service scores. If they don't hit it, they don't earn it. So yes, a dollar over invoice could be a loss if they don't hit it.
This. Everyone always assumes that the dealership knows what the holdback they will receive, if they even receive it. When you factor in commissions paid to sales and F&I, new car department is usually taking a loss.
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      03-11-2020, 05:10 PM   #11
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hey guys, thanks for the input on my thread. I did some digging around on the web, got a few dealer quotes and talked to a couple brokers and felt like I got a good enough sense for market pricing to negotiate a deal I was comfortable with. lots of data points available on BMWs in particular, compared to other brands. I still have no idea what the dealer will make on the deal!

to come full circle on the thread, I ended up going with an m340i instead of the 5er after test driving a few different options. I got 10.5% off msrp before incentives at the buy rate money factor from my local dealer without much hassle. that's on an ordered car, not off the lot. I could have saved a few more $$$ if I wanted to spend more time grinding and working multiple dealers, but I was happy to get a reasonable deal from my local. can't wait to get behind the wheel!
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      03-11-2020, 07:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtpope View Post
hey guys, thanks for the input on my thread. I did some digging around on the web, got a few dealer quotes and talked to a couple brokers and felt like I got a good enough sense for market pricing to negotiate a deal I was comfortable with. lots of data points available on BMWs in particular, compared to other brands. I still have no idea what the dealer will make on the deal!

to come full circle on the thread, I ended up going with an m340i instead of the 5er after test driving a few different options. I got 10.5% off msrp before incentives at the buy rate money factor from my local dealer without much hassle. that's on an ordered car, not off the lot. I could have saved a few more $$$ if I wanted to spend more time grinding and working multiple dealers, but I was happy to get a reasonable deal from my local. can't wait to get behind the wheel!
Well done. Enjoy the ride!
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