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      01-15-2020, 01:10 PM   #1
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Is Porsche hyped right now? Will it ever die down?

Been looking at 997 911s as a potential alternative to an e90 m3 (also looking at e60 m5s) but canít seem to get over the fact that you get so much more engine for the $$ with the BMW m cars.

For those of you that own/owned/considered both, what made you tilt one way or the other?

Pcar probably better handling, but significantly down on power. Also from a pricing perspective, Porsche seems artificially high (but thatís been the case for about a decade now).
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      01-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #2
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Firstly, a 911 will not be as practical as an E90. The back seats in a 911 are laughable. Second, you are correct with your statement about M engines.

I would recommend driving a 997 and seeing how you feel.

I have wavered between selling my E92 M3 and my 987.2 Cayman to pick up a nice 997 be it a .1 GT3 or .2 GTS but I always come back to the fact that I get more enjoyment out of my M3 + Cayman than I would out of one nice 997 for the same money.

I went so far as to test drive a few 997s (base and C2S) last spring and, while they were great, they weren't TWICE as good as my Cayman (not even close) given they were about twice the price.

The chassis on the P-cars is amazing. My M3 feels like a truck after hopping into it after the Cayman. Having said that, the S65 in the M3 is something special. You need to step up to a GT3 to experience a motor as nice in a 997.

To say it another way, I would not give up my minty $35k M3 for any 997 that I would want given their prices. A decent 997.2 C2S 6MT is $55k-65k and, while perhaps a step up in chassis dynamics, it is a step down in the engine department. A .2 GTS is $85k+ for a 6MT coupe if you can find one while a .1 GT3 is $75k for a 50k mile track rat and $90k for a nice lower mileage example.

Having said all of that, if I could only have one car (sub ~$60k), it would be a 997.2 C2S. It covers more bases of the things I want in one car better than anything else. If only one car at about half that $, the E92/E90 M3, no question.

The one car making me think about selling right now is the GT4. There are a slew of them sitting on the market right now, overpriced, for months on end. Hoping when the 718 GT4 starts hitting the street the sellers will become more realistic. A GT4 in the mid 70's will be a tough proposition to ignore.
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Last edited by 850tgul; 01-15-2020 at 02:29 PM..
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      01-15-2020, 03:26 PM   #3
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Massive amount of good info on just that if you give it a search OP.
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      01-15-2020, 06:34 PM   #4
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911 is the sum of its parts; engine is just one aspect and I agree thats an area where BMW gives them a run for their money. But their chassis engineering and build quality on 997.2 and newer are fantastic. They weigh less, carry their weight differently and do everything right from seating position to pedal position for heel toe etc. Just feels like that extra effort is there to make it a driver's car. But if you try to justify the purchase by value per $ you'll never be able to justify it. Its an expensive luxury item that can't be understood in those terms alone. I couldn't justify the price delta until I suddenly had a lot more money on hand and it became less of an issue. Their prices defy gravity just like its handling.
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      01-15-2020, 07:51 PM   #5
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Watching the mega engineering documentary on the Porsche Macan Factory will definitely make you want a Porsche. It's worth a watch.
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      01-15-2020, 11:26 PM   #6
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I own a 997.1 4s and e90m3 . I alternative between both as to my commute. If I had to pick one, it would be the 997 no doubt, it just flat out handles, and brakes better but acceleration is similar but maybe a nod to the 911 as the m3 needs more torque to get moving down low. Im not sure how one of the earlier posters believes the 911 is a step down in the engine dept, the cars accelerate very similarly and have similar power bands, although the 911 is down on hp it is also much lighter and it shows in every aspect. The 911 is built better and doesn't feel as cheap in some parts of the interior and exterior as ive noticed on my M3. The 911 is also just more engaging and provides better feedback as well. Also ironically many maintenance items are actually cheaper on these cars except for tires and theres far less to go wrong. The 997.2 cars are in high demand and going for a premium and many on the reenlist forums feel they will be collectible down the road...

Obviously the E90m3 is a better value car and for many whom can only have one car go this way. I love both of these cars equally and it really comes down to your finances and personal situation with family and utilitarian needs.
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      01-16-2020, 07:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusz06 View Post
Im not sure how one of the earlier posters believes the 911 is a step down in the engine dept, the cars accelerate very similarly and have similar power bands, although the 911 is down on hp it is also much lighter and it shows in every aspect.
I stand by my comment that the S65 is a more enjoyable engine than either the 9A1 or M97 found in the .1 or .2 C2/C4/C2S/C4S 997s. The Mezger engined GT3s are a different matter. Iím speaking purely about the engine itself and not the acceleration times, horsepower figures, or performance of the cars. I do like the 9A1 very much, it makes a mean noise and does have a stronger mid range than the S65. Hell, under 5k rpm my 9A1 Cayman feels equally as strong as my M3. You canít deny that the S65 is next level in terms of revving to 8.4k and producing pure music from both ends of the car. The way it pulls in the upper revs provides an experience the 911 canít, IMO. I just flat out think the S65 is a more special power plant.

As youíd said, raw performance figures are close and I do agree that driver feedback, handling, overall engagement are better on the 911.
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      01-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #8
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Never drove an e30 M3. Had a GT4 for ~4 yrs. compared to my e90M3, the power is lower but the weight is also lower and there is no question, the acceleration is much more impressive in the GT4. It is much more confidence inspiring as it handles well.

On the other hand, GT4 is point and shoot, the driver doesnít have to be much skilled to go fast. The M3 behavior is proportional to the driver skill, there is far more depth to it. The engine location and weight distribution in the M3 also gives it a very different feel compared to the GT4. I didnít find it cumbersome to drive after driving the GT4, it was and is fun in its own way. I sold the GT4 but the M3, never.

Not familiar with a 997 911 but engine HP in a Porsche doesnít give the whole picture. The weight and design will make it faster than higher HP cars.
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      01-18-2020, 01:09 PM   #9
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I've owned many many Porsches over the years, from old air coolers to a Cayman S bought new in 2006, and still own a 1985 911 in addition to my 08 M3.

The M3 is my favorite car for most driving, hands down. The S65 just feels and sounds special in ways that even my 987.2 Cayman S, with the 9A1 engine, simply did not. And I don't detect a ton of differences in build quality. I love the looks, the size, and the practicality of the M3, which can hold four folks and their stuff. Amazing package overall.
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      01-18-2020, 02:36 PM   #10
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I love my 991.1GTS and E92 M3. Neither car can replace the other so it's best to own both.

The 911 is significantly lighter and has superior mechanical grip. The seats are not as comfortable, the cabin is louder as it's less insulated and the electric steering is somewhat less lively. The chassis is made of diamonds and tells you what's going on, best to have a sensitive butt.

The E92 is much more comfortable and quieter for an everyday sports car. The hydraulic steering is amazing and the deep authoritative rumble of the V8 is light years ahead of the flat six. The suspension is softer but the car is significantly heavier and easily unsettled over uneven road surfaces, not sure why.

Decide for yourself, you write the check...
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      01-18-2020, 03:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
The suspension is softer but the car is significantly heavier and easily unsettled over uneven road surfaces, not sure why.
solid rear subframe bushings will cure that nearly completely.
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      01-18-2020, 03:59 PM   #12
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i was dead set on a manual 997 until i got a chance to test drive a base carrera and and an S on the same day. both nice but i found them a bit boring tbh. 997 gt3 is probably another story and worth it if u have the extra cash. in any case, make sure you test drive before you commit...you may be surprised to find you prefer your m3.
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      01-19-2020, 11:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
I love my 991.1GTS and E92 M3. Neither car can replace the other so it's best to own both.

The 911 is significantly lighter and has superior mechanical grip. The seats are not as comfortable, the cabin is louder as it's less insulated and the electric steering is somewhat less lively. The chassis is made of diamonds and tells you what's going on, best to have a sensitive butt.

The E92 is much more comfortable and quieter for an everyday sports car. The hydraulic steering is amazing and the deep authoritative rumble of the V8 is light years ahead of the flat six. The suspension is softer but the car is significantly heavier and easily unsettled over uneven road surfaces, not sure why.

Decide for yourself, you write the check...
I agree that the steering on the M3 is phenomenal.

Love the colors of your cars, sir.
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      01-20-2020, 01:18 PM   #14
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The e92 M3 is car Porsche didn't build but BMW did. Porsche doesn't have a practical everyday coupe/sedan with plenty of room and a NA motor that revs beyond 8,000 rpm with over 400 hp but if they did, it would be a lot like the e92 M3.

So keep the M3 and just think it was made by Porsche because it's soooo good I feel like it was.
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      01-20-2020, 06:21 PM   #15
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Owning both, I would have great difficulty buying any 911 (or BMW for that matter) that wasnt a high trim. Turbo, GT2/3/4, M, etc or nothing. Getting a base level version of a 911 is not worth it imo.
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      01-20-2020, 09:10 PM   #16
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I have had both a 997.1S and now 2 E92 M3s...I liked the E92s better. Mainly because of the engine. The engine in the 997.1S just feels lethargic compared to the S65, while the S65 engine is just so visceral. To be honest its also easier to go faster in a E92 than a 997.1S due to the rear engine setup of the 997.1. The front end never really felt buttoned down and you have to relearn on how to go fast in a 911. It liked you to brake a bit before corner entry to get weight on the front tires to get it to turn in and they power out of the corner using its rear engine bias to get those huge 295s out back to pull you out of the corner. The E9X cars just seem to have a unflappable front end grip, especially when you go to 19X10 and 275 front width...amazing grip.

My 997.1S..she was a beaut..

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      01-21-2020, 10:32 AM   #17
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I've had a 996 for 15 years and an E93 for about five years. I'm not sure any of these cars are really all that comparable as people try to make them. 996/997/991 are 700 lbs lighter than an E92, and 1100+ lbs lighter than my E93. Seems like many of the same people that joke about the extra 400 lbs on the E93 completely ignore how heavy the regular E92 M3 is compared to the 911s.

The Porsches drive great because of their weight, the M3s drive great in spite of their weight. If I could only have one, I honestly think I'd stick with my old P-car.
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      01-21-2020, 11:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooloud10 View Post
I've had a 996 for 15 years and an E93 for about five years. I'm not sure any of these cars are really all that comparable as people try to make them. 996/997/991 are 700 lbs lighter than an E92, and 1100+ lbs lighter than my E93. Seems like many of the same people that joke about the extra 400 lbs on the E93 completely ignore how heavy the regular E92 M3 is compared to the 911s.

The Porsches drive great because of their weight, the M3s drive great in spite of their weight. If I could only have one, I honestly think I'd stick with my old P-car.
700 pounds lighter than an E92?? uh no.
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      01-24-2020, 06:41 PM   #19
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My E92 is 400lbs. heavier than my 997.1S.
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      01-28-2020, 12:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
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700 pounds lighter than an E92?? uh no.
A base 996 is actually over 800 lbs lighter than a base E92 M3.

E92 M3: 3704 lbs
996 C2: 2901 lbs (803 lbs lighter)
997 C2: 3075 lbs (629 lbs lighter)
991 C2: 3042 lbs (662 lbs lighter)

911 C2s are an average of 698 lbs lighter depending on the year. Even my 4WD 996 is 672 lbs lighter than an E92 M3.
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      01-28-2020, 01:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
My E92 is 400lbs. heavier than my 997.1S.
Comparing base cars--which seems to be the only logical way to do it--the 997.1S coupe is 573 lbs lighter than the E92.
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      01-29-2020, 05:10 PM   #22
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See my post from a year ago on this thread. Had a 997.1 TT along with my m3. Sold the 911 turbo. I might still get the 991.2 once I get a garage. Basically, hard to beat the e92 m3.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...9#post23320479
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