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      01-16-2020, 03:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertfox73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghaffari46 View Post
M performance vs real m: totally different animals and bmw knows that. They may have same horse power but the power delivery, weight, chassis rolling are totally different between these 2 segments.
M performance is high performance street car, real M is a track car (. Depending your definition of track) that can be used on the street.
Whoever drives M550 vs m5, or m2 vs m240 know what I'm talking about.
I disagree there, but I see where you're coming from. I've owned 5 M-cars: 2 M3s, an M5, an M4 and an X5M.

First off, if an X5M is a "real" M car, it is definitely not built for the track. Can it do impressive things on a track? Yes, but those accomplishments will ALWAYS be conditioned by the phrase "for an SAV". It's not a pure track car. For anyone.

And...last November I went to Barber Motorsports for a Porsche driving clinic (my 3rd opportunity to do this). I can honestly say that when a Porsche is on a track, it looks and feels like it belongs there. I can't say that for any of my M cars. They always felt like amazingly capable compromises...but compromises nonetheless.

Yes, they do amazing things. But I've never looked at (or driven) an M car and thought "this car truly belongs on a track".

Many will disagree, which is the beauty of forums like this. But that's my opinion.
This is true, an an argument I always made when I owned my E92 M3 with a sunroof, which is how I ordered it.

If you want a true track-oriented car, why are you buying one with a back seat? Let alone all the other creature comforts. Meanwhile it's a crime if I get a sunroof as oppose to the carbon roof, for 40 pounds? Please.
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      01-16-2020, 03:25 PM   #90
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///Marketting has arrived. RIP M Division ca. 2013.
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      01-16-2020, 03:26 PM   #91
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"An M340 IS an M car!!!🥺"
...says everyone that doesn't drive an actual M car.
Get over it, its not an ///M
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      01-16-2020, 03:26 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgear67 View Post
The reason people are bitching about M Performance cars is because M owners got to pay an extra $30K to get 0.5 sec faster car on a 0-60...

And we get an xDrive as a bonus so we are using them year round...lol

Yes, this is a Dakar Yellow 435i M Performance (now an M435i) Dinan stage 2, manual gear box, xDrive and very proud of it.
It's not just about speed, that's only a small slice of the pie to consider....Its the drastically improved road feel, steering feel/response, tighter chassis, improved brakes, engine etc.

Being a finance guy, I tried so hard to convince myself that a 335i/435i/M340i etc was close enough to a true M car so I could save the money. After many extensive test drives though, I understood why the true M cars are so special and worth that price difference if its within your means. Your 435i is pretty and I'm sure is quite quick in a straight line, but please don't go around telling people it's an M car. It's not even an M435i, there was simply no such thing in 2015. That's like a 335i owner saying he now has an M335i because BMW is currently producing the M340i...
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      01-16-2020, 03:27 PM   #93
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In my opinion it doesn't make much sense. The M340i is almost exactly the same car as a 330i M Sport with a bigger engine and all the sport options checked off. Same body panels, same suspension, same interior options, etc. The M3 has a different suspension geometry and components and most of the sheetmetal is unique. It also has unique interior with standard higher trim leather that is not readily available on the 330i/M340i. It truly is a heavily revised car with potential to be a track focused car.

In the end, I couldn't care less though. The only reason I'm moving up to a G80 next gen is for the manual transmission. I personally would have been more than happy with an M340i 6MT and many years of happy modifications.
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      01-16-2020, 03:27 PM   #94
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Albert Biermann must be at a corner laughing at the moment ..
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      01-16-2020, 03:31 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by premier3is View Post
And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
Well it's not it's like amg packet and a 2.0 diesel is not amg
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      01-16-2020, 03:32 PM   #96
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Just to weigh in here...as an actual "M" driver (my daily driver is a tuned M6 competition) and having previously owed several other M cars, I bought the wife a new M340 at Christmas time and its a great car with good power and a nice interior. Not ready to give up the M6, but the M340 is a better car around town no doubt and that's what it will be used for.
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      01-16-2020, 03:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavo11 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by topgear67 View Post
The reason people are bitching about M Performance cars is because M owners got to pay an extra $30K to get 0.5 sec faster car on a 0-60...

And we get an xDrive as a bonus so we are using them year round...lol

Yes, this is a Dakar Yellow 435i M Performance (now an M435i) Dinan stage 2, manual gear box, xDrive and very proud of it.
It's not just about speed, that's only a small slice of the pie to consider....Its the drastically improved road feel, steering feel/response, tighter chassis, improved brakes, engine etc.

Being a finance guy, I tried so hard to convince myself that a 335i/435i/M340i etc was close enough to a true M car so I could save the money. After many extensive test drives though, I understood why the true M cars are so special and worth that price difference if its within your means. Your 435i is pretty and I'm sure is quite quick in a straight line, but please don't go around telling people it's an M car. It's not even an M435i, there was simply no such thing in 2015. That's like a 335i owner saying he now has an M335i because BMW is currently producing the M340i...
Don't bother reasoning with these people lol. Let them slurp their ///Marketting Kool-Aid.

Anyone who buys a "M-Performance" whatever was never the intended buyer of a full M car in the first place. They're simply cut from a different cloth. Like comparing Nike ACG joggers to a pair of fitted slacks.

"M-Performance" vehicles are glorified grocery getters and commuters with a sprinkling of fun. Full blown M cars are (rather, were) built for fun as a priority, and the utilitarianism came second.
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      01-16-2020, 03:33 PM   #98
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So does this guy get a pass too?
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      01-16-2020, 03:34 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoriginalM2 View Post
Albert Biermann must be at a corner laughing at the moment ..
He wasn't wrong when he said M now stands for ///Marketing more than anything else.
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      01-16-2020, 03:34 PM   #100
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Bringing out the best of the forum jockeys. Enjoy your car how you see fit folks, happy to let marketing run wild if they keep a few enthusiast gems in the lineup.
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      01-16-2020, 03:34 PM   #101
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dont care what the badge says. the m340i just doesnt look the part
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      01-16-2020, 03:37 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
From a marketing standpoint I actually think its a very smart move for BMW to add the "M" in front of the higher trim level non-M cars. Your average consumer doesn't think about or realize that the 335i for example is a large upgrade from the base 330 or 328. This will no doubt help push the higher trim cars by separating them a bit from the base cars. Audi has proven this with their "S" cars.
Brands evolve and get watered down all the time. putting an M badge on everything is just to drive volume sales and has little to do with enhancing the core brand of what M used to mean. Heck, BMW doesn't even stand for the ultimate driving machine anymore so the badging is not a surprise.

Perhaps in the new G platform, the differences between m340i and m3 comp may not be that different - hence the badging but that was not the case with the older (e9x, e4x) m3 and 3 series. Significant chassis, suspension and engine changes.
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      01-16-2020, 03:38 PM   #103
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Surprised by the amount of people supporting BMW on this thread... really guys? M is supposed to represent the sports side of the brand. Tuned for 'colourful' driving. Sacrificing comfort in favour of rawness. Ultimate fun. That visceral sensation of feeling the road at your fingertips. A 'hell with the luxuries'. It doesn't mean 'fast commuter'. Bit by bit, 'M' is losing its meaning. It doesn't just mean 'fast'. 'My m340i can out-drag X'... I don't care. A Tesla can out-drag most things on the planet, doesn't make it a sports car... does it? Yes, an M340i etc are quick cars, but they aren't designed to be sports cars. I've driven an M240i on track back-to-back against my M2 and it's not the same, at all.

I haven't got an issue with a 'performance' variant of standard cars, but why pretend they are M, they're not. This is just marketing fluff gone lazy. The irony is that diluting the brand like this simply makes it less special and less desirable. People like to aim high, even if they can't get it. People like to dream. People fantasise of 'Ferrari' because it means something. If Ferrari started making commuter cars that were fast, but not 'Ferrari', the brand would die and the enthusiasts would move to a more serious brand. Just take a look at how many M owners are shifting towards Porsche. Says it all really.
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      01-16-2020, 03:43 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
He wasn't wrong when he said M now stands for ///Marketing more than anything else.
Of course . The sad part for me is that i wont follow the next m cars because of those few details. I can see that marketing is strong nowadays , but you cant just sell the M history in this way. Audi has S cars as well , but there is as well the RS segment which is considered their best performance cars. E92 335i had just a M package and thats all ! Its the same as now with the "M"235i etc. M135 xdrive 2.0L 4cyl is an M car , X2 35 as well same . Happy to see Albert left after making the M2/3/4 at least. After those models , a lot changed , grills etc , but most important the marketing. Maybe the next car will be a KIA or Huyndai really ! Ill keep up with my M2 as my performance car , but even for my daily car i wouldnt go for a BMW anymore.
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      01-16-2020, 03:43 PM   #105
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Real M Cars have VINs which start with WBS
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      01-16-2020, 03:44 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathObeaN View Post
Surprised by the amount of people supporting BMW on this thread... really guys?
Why are you surprised? Forums are by and large composed of your average Joe car buyer, not the truest of enthusiasts. Statistically, you're more likely to encounter M badge junkies than actual M owners who would see why this is a BS marketting move by painting everything under the same brush.

Loss of brand identity always heralds the demise of a company. We'll see where BMW stands in the next few decades - my money is on them being an unapologetic luxury car maker foremost; these days they're only pretending to still car about making sports cars. They day where they stop even pretending is around the corner.

Porsche owns the sport-enthusiast driving demographic and they're not going anywhere (see: 718 receiving the 6cyl due to overwhelming feedback. Bravo). They're a textbook case study on how to capture volume and market share while not completely chastising your identity.
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      01-16-2020, 03:47 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
The irony is that the majority of these real M cars are being used in the exact same manner as most of us M340i drivers. Which is daily commute to and fro from work which really defeats its true purpose and capability.
Well if they sold Alpinas in the US fewer people would buy M3s to commute.
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      01-16-2020, 03:50 PM   #108
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We can debate back and forth all day long the merits of daily driving, track use and which is better blah blah, but I was under the impression that the definition of a "true M car" is one that BMW's M division engineers actually work on and develop.

BMW can slap a "M" on whatever cars they want, but to me a real "M" is the one that undergoes M division engineering, R&D, and development.

Any car that has the regular BMW development but with an added power kit or sport suspension is and always will be ///Marketing.

Actually the real definition should be whether you're allowed to partake in BMWs M Track days or not: I got an invite to an upcoming event and my buddy in an M340i didn't. He specially called the host dealership and asked if he could take part in it, and the GM said nope, only for real M cars. They won't let him attend this summer in his brand new M340i, but I get to go with my 2 year old last gen M3 :
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      01-16-2020, 03:51 PM   #109
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It's simple

M car is a platform-based, M designed car w/a minor exception or two (1M, OG M2).

M version car (e.g., M340i) is a "breathed-on" or in old school terms "hot rodded" car.

Simple as that. The track factor is: if you can put racing brake fluid and pads in the car, and R compounds on it, and It can survive a 10 track event season, it's a true M (SUVs excluded). An M performance version won't be durable enough - period.

Easy :-)
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      01-16-2020, 03:52 PM   #110
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LOL I suspect anything M striped accessories will sky rocket in sales since BMW justified it for non M cars being M cars...
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