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      02-01-2020, 04:49 PM   #45
dsad1
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Because it's not actually "ready for the market".

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/06...-street-signs/
Spoofing a system in an extremely uncommon way does not mean it's not ready for the market. Bmw's are able to be hacked which gives a theif access to the car without a key, other manufacturers have been hacked with people controlling their cars from a far, does that mean these cars are currently not ready for the market because of the slim chance of these occurrences? No, as long as the risk of exploiting a hole is minimal, you keep fixing the holes while it's on the market.

Everything has some type of vulnerability, and people will always try to find a way to exploit it. That doesn't mean a product isn't ready for the market.

P. S. That same spoof would mess with adaptive cruise control on a BMW as well.
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      02-01-2020, 04:54 PM   #46
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Spoofing a system in an extremely uncommon way does not mean it's not ready for the market. Bmw's are able to be hacked which gives a theif access to the car without a key, other manufacturers have been hacked with people controlling their cars from a far, does that mean these cars are currently not ready for the market because of the slim chance of these occurrences? No, as long as the risk of exploiting a hole is minimal, you keep fixing the holes while it's on the market.

Everything has some type of vulnerability, and people will always try to find a way to exploit it. That doesn't mean a product isn't ready for the market.

P. S. That same spoof would mess with adaptive cruise control on a BMW as well.
So you actually prove my point.....it's one thing to "spoof" or "hack" a cell phone or DND or something else, but if you can do it to a car people can die. I am happy with my simple analog life thank you. My head is on a swivel when I'm driving etc. Enjoy your tech.
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      02-01-2020, 04:57 PM   #47
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no, my point is that until the tech is completely sorted out then it shouldn't be out on the road.
The tech is completely sorted out. Adaptive cruise on every car I've owned that has it works fantastic, even my truck has it and I use it to drive across the country several times with no issues. Lane keep assist works great also in the few cars I've had it in. Blind spot monitoring has been around forever. All this tech works great. I don't know of any of the big automakers, except for Tesla, claiming ANY of these safety features = self driving car. You are making that leap on your own. As far as I know there are NO self driving cars or cars being sold as self driving cars on the market.

The only automaker that I know of that has bundled all these SAFETY features and called it Autopilot is Tesla. You are assuming that people are eating shit BECAUSE they have safety features. If we are going to go off anecdotal evidence then I see a shiton of people in shit boxes that sure as hell have none of those safety features eating shit on their phone. Maybe I spot those more often because they are driving more erratically than the shit eaters who do have the safety features.
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      02-01-2020, 05:00 PM   #48
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The tech is completely sorted out. Adaptive cruise on every car I've owned that has it works fantastic, even my truck has it and I use it to drive across the country several times with no issues. Lane keep assist works great also in the few cars I've had it in. Blind spot monitoring has been around forever. All this tech works great. I don't know of any of the big automakers, except for Tesla, claiming ANY of these safety features = self driving car. You are making that leap on your own. As far as I know there are NO self driving cars or cars being sold as self driving cars on the market.

The only automaker that I know of that has bundled all these SAFETY features and called it Autopilot is Tesla. You are assuming that people are eating shit BECAUSE they have safety features. If we are going to go off anecdotal evidence then I see a shiton of people in shit boxes that sure as hell have none of those safety features eating shit on their phone. Maybe I spot those more often because they are driving more erratically than the shit eaters who do have the safety features.
So you actually prove my point.....it's one thing to "spoof" or "hack" a cell phone or DND or something else, but if you can do it to a car people can die. I am happy with my simple analog life thank you. My head is on a swivel when I'm driving etc. Enjoy your tech.
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      02-01-2020, 05:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So you actually prove my point.....it's one thing to "spoof" or "hack" a cell phone or DND or something else, but if you can do it to a car people can die. I am happy with my simple analog life thank you. My head is on a swivel when I'm driving etc. Enjoy your tech.
You can spoof/hack a plane, a boat, a helicopter, a drone, even a pacemaker, people can die in all of those situations, but how often does it happen?
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      02-01-2020, 05:06 PM   #50
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So you actually prove my point.....it's one thing to "spoof" or "hack" a cell phone or DND or something else, but if you can do it to a car people can die.
I'm confused... I said nothing about hacked or spoofed cars. You have data on these hacked cars? How many people are these car hacker/spoofers killing every year?

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I am happy with my simple analog life thank you. My head is on a swivel when I'm driving etc. Enjoy your tech.
Now your posts make sense. Don't worry old man, the robo cars won't be driving on your lawn anytime soon.
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      02-01-2020, 05:12 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
I'm confused... I said nothing about hacked or spoofed cars. You have data on these hacked cars? How many people are these car hacker/spoofers killing every year?



Now your posts make sense. Don't worry old man, the robo cars won't be driving on your lawn anytime soon.
So, some day you'll be a grown up and some smart mouth little shit will chirp off to you. But if it makes you feel better Tide Pod then enjoy your moment. I was only making the point that I don't trust the tech, has nothing to do with me being an "old man", it has to do with life experience, which has shown me that folks tend to screw up when they rely on tech.

Last edited by Salty Dog; 02-01-2020 at 05:33 PM..
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      02-01-2020, 06:18 PM   #52
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So, some day you'll be a grown up and some smart mouth little shit will chirp off to you. But if it makes you feel better Tide Pod then enjoy your moment. I was only making the point that I don't trust the tech, has nothing to do with me being an "old man", it has to do with life experience, which has shown me that folks tend to screw up when they rely on tech.
Unfortunately I'm not young enough to be a Tide Pod but not quite old enough to be a tech curmudgeon. As much as I look forward to being able to tell little shits about the good ol days when cars not only barely drove themselves, but some even required you to change gears. I'll probably be taken out by a hacked robo car, or assassinated by the Russians who are snooping in on my smart devices, or get taken out by some Amazon drone.

Luckily we have the freedom to use as much or as little tech as we want.
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      02-01-2020, 06:33 PM   #53
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I stated some facts, so why the name calling?
Take boomer as a compliment. It's the young ones that have it hard who use it to express their bitterness to those who enjoyed the good days.

Besides, I think that term "is like so 2019".
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      02-07-2020, 01:47 PM   #54
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Yes, the E-Tron sucks. The strategy of taking a ICE platform and converting it into an EV results in half assed products. True for Audi, true for most of BMW’s products.
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      02-07-2020, 02:14 PM   #55
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In life, the things that you don't know about are the ones that get you.

When you are traveling at speed in a vehicle weighing thousands of pounds, the things that you don't see are the ones that can kill you. I don't think its controversial to assert that most deadly accidents were caused by factors unknown to the driver.

When you are discussing activities that can end with you getting killed, you don't get a second chance, so it makes sense to eliminate every risk that you can, especially the ones that are easy to eliminate.

Why would I put my life in the hands of a factor that I cannot control nor see, especially when it is known that companies including Tesla and Uber have proven that they are perfectly willing to test unknown risks in their software on unsuspecting humans - thereby resulting in death: Ramming into a big rig in the former case (which was not recognized by the software) and ramming into a pedestrian in the latter (which was recognized in plenty of time to react but then judged by the software as an object that the car did not need to avoid).

In other words, those making the executive decisions at those companies decided that their pursuit was a higher priority than a certain amount of deaths. If you all want to be a party to that because "it hasn't happened enough for me to worry about it" be my guest. I'd rather put my life into my own hands every time because I can see and control all the factors.

You might argue "but there will be less deaths overall", let's just assume for sake of argument that is true, the problem is that doesn't map one bit to the individual. Would you sacrifice your life if you were guaranteed that in trade 2000 other lives would be saved? Let's even discount the fact that they are being saved from their own otherwise life-ending bad decisions. I would not take that trade and I suspect virtually no one else would.

Trading a few deaths to save many more is an insane game especially when it was completely unnecessary. It was done because they believed they could get away with skipping testing in a safe environment even if they killed a few people, and they were right.

They could have made the choice to develop the car's automation to emphasize safety over everything else, they could have made it slow down when confidence is low, they could have tested in environments that do not risk life, but they decided their rapid success was far more important. Think about that.

For their part Google seems to be far more careful in their testing and far less reckless from what I have heard.
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