[scoale]

I am 20,000 miles and nearly two years into what has been a very satisfying ownership experience. With that said, I am a bit surprised that 5 series sales are not better.

Thoughts?

[SoCal540]

Originally Posted by scoale

I am 20,000 miles and nearly two years into what has been a very satisfying ownership experience. With that said, I am a bit surprised that 5 series sales are not better.

Thoughts?

Correct me if I'm wrong but suv sales seem to be much stronger than car sales...

[jjscsix]

Originally Posted by SoCal540

Correct me if I'm wrong but suv sales seem to be much stronger than car sales...

Exactly. Sedan sales have absolutely tanked. It doesn't help that as a result of poor sedan sales, manufacturers don't want to invest in updating them.

[AP]

+1
SUV s seem to be the most popular these days although here in the uk I do still see fair amount of 5 series .

I always thought the 5 was regarded as a good revenue generator for bmw but wonder if that's still the case these days.

[Bob in IL]

Yup, sedan sales from most brands are declining. GM and Ford are dropping many of theirs. The 5 Series is in its 4th model year so no new news to boost sales a bit. We love ours but I'm sure there will be an additional depreciation hit when it's time for something else.

[Warp Ten]

As others have noted, the trend today is towards SUVs, not sedans. I spoke recently with the owner of the dealership where I worked and he said their sales are now 70% SUVs. That includes BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover (naturally) and Hyundai. Unfortunately, I park under a lift so with a 10' garage ceiling, I can only have a five foot tall car along with my 4 foot tall Z06. Fortunately, I love my 540xi. --Bob

[LogicalApex]

As mentioned by others, SUVs are dominating the market. So much so that some car companies are killing sedan production entirely.

But! Doesn't this just mean we can get better deals on sedans as long as we're interested in buying them??

Originally Posted by AP

+1
SUV s seem to be the most popular these days although here in the uk I do still see fair amount of 5 series .

I always thought the 5 was regarded as a good revenue generator for bmw but wonder if that's still the case these days.

Probably has shifted to the X5 for now which is the 5 SUV equiv.

Things can swiftly swing back if gas prices start ticking up again.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

As mentioned by others, SUVs are dominating the market. So much so that some car companies are killing sedan production entirely.

But! Doesn't this just mean we can get better deals on sedans as long as we're interested in buying them??



Probably has shifted to the X5 for now which is the 5 SUV equiv.

Things can swiftly swing back if gas prices start ticking up again.

The mass marketers in the US are abandoning cars for SUVs (Ford, Chevy, etc.). But there are still plenty of sedans being sold and the luxury car makers are all pretty much still making and selling sedans and coupes (BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Acura, Infinity and Alfa).

But there is no doubt that the SUVs are running the market. Even in Europe with small, twisty roads you are seeing an influx of SUVs, albeit tending toward the smaller versions.

[Pictor]

The trend is definitely moving towards SUV's. The 3 and 4 series are also following the same trend towards the X3/X4. Below is a chart comparing US sales of the 5 vs the X5. Keep in mind there are also fluctuations due to new model releases and LCI (5'er LCI is due this summer).

[stein_325i]

The X5 exists in a world that only wants crossovers. The 5-series has been kicked to the curb.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

Things can swiftly swing back if gas prices start ticking up again.

I do wonder if that will happen. Here in the UK, with high fuel costs, we are still seeing a continued swing to SUV/crossover model ranges. Practicality appears to be overriding costs.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I do wonder if that will happen. Here in the UK, with high fuel costs, we are still seeing a continued swing to SUV/crossover model ranges. Practicality appears to be overriding costs.

I believe it still would cause a shift back toward sedans. The US market drives a lot due to the size of the country so if prices went from $2/g where they are now to $4/g or $5/g where they have been in the past you'd see a swift shift back to sedans.

The only thing that could slow that shift back would be more electric SUVs either as full BEVs or PHEVs to keep the fuel costs down.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I believe it still would cause a shift back toward sedans. The US market drives a lot due to the size of the country so if prices went from $2/g where they are now to $4/g or $5/g where they have been in the past you'd see a swift shift back to sedans.

The only thing that could slow that shift back would be more electric SUVs either as full BEVs or PHEVs to keep the fuel costs down.

Fuel prices certainly play a role in this equation but I don't think it's the only contributing factor.

SUV's are the modern station wagon and people like their flexibility. Our roads also contribute to the desire to move to something that sits higher. I can't tell you how tiring it is to try and avoid potholes, high curb stops (avoid damage to air dam) and other obstacles while driving a sedan. SUV's definitely provide some peace of mind in that category.

PHEV's seem like a good option for fuel savings but people like myself who spend $90k to $110k on a car are not always thinking about saving $200/year on gas (or what ever the savings is on a PHEV). People are either making an environmental statement or want to be part of something grander (move to the future of personal transportation). Personally, I'm past the PHEV idea especially if it means sacrificing acceleration or performance. However, I'm willing to make the tradeoff of going to a BEV that has V8 level torque at the expense of weight gain.

The shift to SUV's has been a slow but measurable move and from my travels to various countries in the EU and Asia, I don't think it's a phenomenon that is unique to North America.

[Taranto300]

For every TESLA sold, that would have been a BMW sedan customer

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by Taranto300

For every TESLA sold, that would have been a BMW sedan customer

Despite the hype from Teslarati I don't believe that to be true except for maybe owners of lower end 3 and 4 series. I'm not saying there are exceptions to that. However, I doubt people are swapping out well optioned 5 series or X5's for Tesla's who lack even the basic necessities such as buttons for the rear seat heaters. There is minimalism and there is austerity. Tesla's fall into the austere category.

I know quite a few Tesla owners and have cross shopped them myself (I really want a BEV). Most Tesla owners that I know come from mid range Japanese cars (Toyota, Nissan, and Honda sedans and minivans) or lower end German cars (lower tiered 3 series or C-Class). What I find interesting is that not one of them want to go back to an ICE but even those who purchased a Tesla after owning a lower tiered 3-Series or C-Class all say the fit and finish in the Tesla is lacking but they won't go back to an ICE engine.

Bottom line, I don't think BEV's are eating into the sale of sedans like the 5 series in a meaningful way but that could change with time. Right now it's SUV's that are eating into the sedans. If Tesla starts to meaningfully improving the interiors of their cars like the Model S then that might be another data point for the costal cities that seem to shop for BEV's but also make up a bigger percentage of BMW's sales in the US.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Despite the hype from Teslarati I don't believe that to be true except for maybe owners of lower end 3 and 4 series. I'm not saying there are exceptions to that. However, I doubt people are swapping out well optioned 5 series or X5's for Tesla's who lack even the basic necessities such as buttons for the rear seat heaters. There is minimalism and there is austerity. Tesla's fall into the austere category.

I know quite a few Tesla owners and have cross shopped them myself (I really want a BEV). Most Tesla owners that I know come from mid range Japanese cars (Toyota, Nissan, and Honda sedans and minivans) or lower end German cars (lower tiered 3 series or C-Class). What I find interesting is that not one of them want to go back to an ICE but even those who purchased a Tesla after owning a lower tiered 3-Series or C-Class all say the fit and finish in the Tesla is lacking but they won't go back to an ICE engine.

Bottom line, I don't think BEV's are eating into the sale of sedans like the 5 series in a meaningful way but that could change with time. Right now it's SUV's that are eating into the sedans. If Tesla starts to meaningfully improving the interiors of their cars like the Model S then that might be another data point for the costal cities that seem to shop for BEV's but also make up a bigger percentage of BMW's sales in the US.

3-Series was hurt the most, according to the survey the #2 most traded in vehicle behind the Prius, but the 5-series was the second most traded in BMW in the survey.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...evolution.html

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Pictor

Fuel prices certainly play a role in this equation but I don't think it's the only contributing factor.

SUV's are the modern station wagon and people like their flexibility. Our roads also contribute to the desire to move to something that sits higher. I can't tell you how tiring it is to try and avoid potholes, high curb stops (avoid damage to air dam) and other obstacles while driving a sedan. SUV's definitely provide some peace of mind in that category.

PHEV's seem like a good option for fuel savings but people like myself who spend $90k to $110k on a car are not always thinking about saving $200/year on gas (or what ever the savings is on a PHEV). People are either making an environmental statement or want to be part of something grander (move to the future of personal transportation). Personally, I'm past the PHEV idea especially if it means sacrificing acceleration or performance. However, I'm willing to make the tradeoff of going to a BEV that has V8 level torque at the expense of weight gain.

The shift to SUV's has been a slow but measurable move and from my travels to various countries in the EU and Asia, I don't think it's a phenomenon that is unique to North America.

Gas prices are not the only factor, all markets are more complex than a single factor, but they play a major role. You can see this in the popularity of electric vehicles (BEVs and PHEVs) in California if you want any idea (where the average gas price there is still above $4/g).

With the large amount of people who lease their $90K Germany luxury cars I'd say this market segment is likely far more volatile when monthly expenditures shift. For instance, if a $100/m gas bill becomes a $200/m gas bill that may motivate a shift. There are quite a lot of buyers who punch above their weight to get into BMWs and would be impacted by fuel price spikes.

The market has moved in ways to counter the effects of lower fuel prices on SUVs with increased fuel economy, but the Trump administration is removing the vast majority of those restrictions so we can expect SUV fuel economy to regress and become more vulnerable in a higher fuel cost scenario.

I do think once buyers go BEV or PHEV though they likely never would go back to pure ICE (and I'm sure many PHEV owners will shift to BEVs when it makes sense to do so). As electric has a lot of strong advantages when it can work out for a driver. Everything from lots of torque to less time wasted "fueling up" to less wear and tear items.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

3-Series was hurt the most, according to the survey the #2 most traded in vehicle behind the Prius, but the 5-series was the second most traded in BMW in the survey.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...evolution.html

I'm going to be stubborn until I see more data. I see some flaws here. The article from Bloomberg starts off with someone who went from an X5 to a Model 3. Really? Was that an E53 or E70 X5? Or was that a G05 X5? Was that X5 owner really taking away from potential BMW sales? I don't see the Model 3 as a viable option for someone in the market for a new X5.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Pictor

I'm going to be stubborn until I see more data. I see some flaws here. The article from Bloomberg starts off with someone who went from an X5 to a Model 3. Really? Was that an E53 or E70 X5? Or was that a G05 X5? Was that X5 owner really taking away from potential BMW sales? I don't see the Model 3 as a viable option for someone in the market for a new X5.

Half the people who drive SUV's don't need most of the practicality of it, remember its just one example. I know people who have gone from SUV's to sedans or coupes.

The point of the article is that BMW most definitely has lost sales to Tesla, particularly with their bread and butter 3-series, and likely soon the X3 with the Model Y coming soon.

[Pictor]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Half the people who drive SUV's don't need most of the practicality of it, remember its just one example. I know people who have gone from SUV's to sedans or coupes.

The point of the article is that BMW most definitely has lost sales to Tesla, particularly with their bread and butter 3-series, and likely soon the X3 with the Model Y coming soon.

No doubt BMW has lost sales to Tesla. The question is is this meaningful to be noticeable in the sales figures. The basis of the thread is to ask the question of why is YoY sales down for the 5 down. I don't believe Tesla has had measurable impact -- yet. The exception might be in cities like L.A., San Francisco, Seattle, and other coastal cities. However, SUV's have had a measurable impact across sedans in the market. Now the story does try and draw some connections to BMW sales along with a few anecdotes about BMW loyalty.

Trading in a car of one brand for another doesn't mean that the first brand lost a sale. Here's a personal example, when I was in my 20's, I traded in a used BMW for a new Nissan which I needed for a long commute to a new job. There was no way I could have afforded a new BMW at that point in my life and I wanted something better in the snow (before xDrive was a thing). Did BMW lose a sale to Nissan because I decided to trade in a used BMW for a new Nissan?

[Bob in IL]

Here are some telling BMW U.S. sales #'s for 2019:

5 Series 38,709 -12%

X3 70,000 +14%
X4 8,758 +103%
X5 54,595 +21%
X7 21,574 New

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

As mentioned by others, SUVs are dominating the market. So much so that some car companies are killing sedan production entirely.

But! Doesn't this just mean we can get better deals on sedans as long as we're interested in buying them??



Probably has shifted to the X5 for now which is the 5 SUV equiv.

Things can swiftly swing back if gas prices start ticking up again.

Yes, I agree. I got a very excellent deal leasing then buying my 5-er!

SUV's are terrible, IMO, if you want to "save the planet" as well as having me "Bring My Wallet" to the fuel depot!