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      09-15-2020, 07:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Warp Ten View Post
I have a much bigger worry about the future of the 5 Series--what is it going to look like? If they adopt the new 4 Series grille (below), I will end my run of BMWs at 10. When I first saw a picture of the new 4 Series I almost gagged. Like Audi's early Largemouth Bass approach to a grille--Bob
But it still looks better than the Lexus Grill ... I cringe everytime I see one of those.
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      09-16-2020, 02:28 AM   #24
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Yeh I'm not sure that BMW's will be what I want as mentioned previously that they seem to be influenced by 2 factors.

Legislation namely safety ( speed limiters here in EU land), environmental and the large Chinese market.

Youngsters ( and I'm generalising here) seem to prefer gadgets over driving / handling pleasure

I'm feeling more like a dinosaur these days than ever!

What I want is a modern day e39. The g30 is good no question but when I thought about the day I picked up my e39 and thought just how bloody good this car was. I've never felt the same for my subsequent cars
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      09-16-2020, 04:58 AM   #25
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Agree 540 is an improvement versus F10 535. I set out to buy a used 535 but ended up buying a new 540 after test driving both extensively.

Also agree that subscription service is coming. In general, people like us will probably subscribe down the road but have a "classic" in the garage. In general, young people won't have anything in the garage because they are not as into cars as we are.

Definitely agree that electric will replace ICE. Maintenance, in particular, is compelling. An internal combustion engine contains literally hundreds of moving parts: air, fuel, spark, oiling and cooling systems, and all associated peripherals/sensors/etc. For me, once battery weights come down, range increases, and variety of vehicles increase, the value proposition of electric will be tough to argue.
I signed up for notification of a BMW subscription servicing called BMW first.
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      09-16-2020, 07:06 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Dephead2004 View Post
I signed up for notification of a BMW subscription servicing called BMW first.
I signed up to be notified about it too, thinking it would be a rolling rental type deal, but from what I can see it is just a vehicle care subscription, where they'll wash your car, replace bulbs and top up fluids etc.

https://discover.bmw.co.uk/article/bmw-first
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      09-16-2020, 07:07 AM   #27
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What I want is a modern day e39.
What I would give for that, but unfortunately that ship has sailed at BMW.
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      09-16-2020, 08:55 AM   #28
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      09-16-2020, 05:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
Yeh I'm not sure that BMW's will be what I want as mentioned previously that they seem to be influenced by 2 factors.

Legislation namely safety ( speed limiters here in EU land), environmental and the large Chinese market.

Youngsters ( and I'm generalising here) seem to prefer gadgets over driving / handling pleasure

I'm feeling more like a dinosaur these days than ever!

What I want is a modern day e39. The g30 is good no question but when I thought about the day I picked up my e39 and thought just how bloody good this car was. I've never felt the same for my subsequent cars
Agree that BMW has concluded that you and I are no longer the target market. In fact, you and I are becoming outliers on this forum! Scan the new owner reviews; the overwhelming majority of commentary is about tech/comfort features. I like tech/comfort as much as the next guy - but want to retain the dynamic driving attributes.

Agree the G30 is good. I bought mine, and plan to keep it. But, dynamically, its lost something versus E39/E60 (but improved versus F10).
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      09-16-2020, 10:31 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Agree that BMW has concluded that you and I are no longer the target market. In fact, you and I are becoming outliers on this forum! Scan the new owner reviews; the overwhelming majority of commentary is about tech/comfort features. I like tech/comfort as much as the next guy - but want to retain the dynamic driving attributes.

Agree the G30 is good. I bought mine, and plan to keep it. But, dynamically, its lost something versus E39/E60 (but improved versus F10).

Maybe I'm overplaying this because I spent the last 3.5 years in an F10 and redid the springs, killed the run flats, koni install and antisway bars and still did not feel like I could really drive it. Even if I'd been more aggressive with the konis, it still was heavy, would skid taking a not too hard turn. Brakes were so-so. Turbo lag.

Driving the G30 for the last week and after replacing the RFT's, I am so relieved. My son said, "you look so happy." I said, "I feel like I can drive the car again like my 09 328i sport, but with another 100 horses and better low end torque."
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      09-17-2020, 10:40 AM   #31
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I too experienced the misery that is the F10. The G30, I gotta say, does almost everything really well.

But it is expensive for what it is. Depreciation is horrible. I'm happy that I leased this one. At end of lease, if the 2021 or 2022 has mandatory automatic braking or any of that other annoying "technology", I'll buy out the lease or buy a GTI. I don't want that extra stuff, and I sure don't want to pay for it.

The new Audi A6 has abysmal steering. I haven't seen the new E class yet. I never cared for Lexus. I can't get past the low rent interiors on the Tesla.

I do like the 850i; I test drove a couple of them, borrowing one for the weekend in drop-top form. Darn nice. But also a hundred large. That's a lot of money, and those big cars depreciate even worse than our little fives.

BTW, I traded a F01 750i on my 540i. The latter is only a couple of inches shorter.
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      09-18-2020, 10:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Desmond79 View Post
Maybe I'm overplaying this because I spent the last 3.5 years in an F10 and redid the springs, killed the run flats, koni install and antisway bars and still did not feel like I could really drive it. Even if I'd been more aggressive with the konis, it still was heavy, would skid taking a not too hard turn. Brakes were so-so. Turbo lag.

Driving the G30 for the last week and after replacing the RFT's, I am so relieved. My son said, "you look so happy." I said, "I feel like I can drive the car again like my 09 328i sport, but with another 100 horses and better low end torque."
When BMW first came out with the F10 they were aiming squarely at the Lexus customer but softening up the ride. In the process the lost a lot of serious BMW customers who bought them not only for the luxury but the firmness and competence of the driving. A friend of mine, long time BMW owner, had the exact same experience as you. Bought a new 550 when the F10 came out. Hated the handling and especially the new-then-to-BMW Goodyear tires. Dumped them for Michelins and installed a Dinan suspension. But he shouldn't have had to do that just remain loyal to BMW. At least they improved later cars to be better handling. --Bob
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      09-20-2020, 07:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Warp Ten View Post
When BMW first came out with the F10 they were aiming squarely at the Lexus customer but softening up the ride. In the process the lost a lot of serious BMW customers who bought them not only for the luxury but the firmness and competence of the driving. A friend of mine, long time BMW owner, had the exact same experience as you. Bought a new 550 when the F10 came out. Hated the handling and especially the new-then-to-BMW Goodyear tires. Dumped them for Michelins and installed a Dinan suspension. But he shouldn't have had to do that just remain loyal to BMW. At least they improved later cars to be better handling. --Bob
Yes, I went with Koni FSD in F10 and rear bar, ACS Springs - comfy as heck ride, but hit a bump and people flew out of their seats. The FSD were a mistake. Should've gone with Sports/Adjustable. But it was still lipstick on a pig.

With the G30, BMW gave me what I wanted since we all spend too much time on the phone in the car now - high tech bells and whistles, quiet and the M Sport is not that taut - just enough. It does lack passion - I drive my 2009 328i with sport suspension, 6 Spd stick and non-rft to feel that passion again. Maybe a 235i down the road.
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      09-20-2020, 01:01 PM   #34
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Same

This is a timely thread. I'm in the process of selling my 2018 530xe to Vroom (highly recommend - they pay way too much) for the same reasons everyone mentioned: it's not as practical as X5, but not sporty/inspiring like E90 used to be. It really feels stuck in the middle with no apparent purpose.

I'll drive my truck as the daily in the meantime (RAM is surprisingly nice to drive), and then will try out Porsche Drive subscription since it's available here in Vegas. It's expensive but will let me test-drive everything extensively and then make a decision.

Another point I wanted to mention is the death of ED. It provided excellent discounts a few years ago and was a great reason to go with another BMW since the vacations in Europe you can do in your own US-spec car are unforgettable.

Last edited by FarHills; 09-20-2020 at 01:06 PM..
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      09-20-2020, 07:21 PM   #35
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This is a timely thread. I'm in the process of selling my 2018 530xe to Vroom (highly recommend - they pay way too much) for the same reasons everyone mentioned: it's not as practical as X5, but not sporty/inspiring like E90 used to be. It really feels stuck in the middle with no apparent purpose.

I'll drive my truck as the daily in the meantime (RAM is surprisingly nice to drive), and then will try out Porsche Drive subscription since it's available here in Vegas. It's expensive but will let me test-drive everything extensively and then make a decision.

Another point I wanted to mention is the death of ED. It provided excellent discounts a few years ago and was a great reason to go with another BMW since the vacations in Europe you can do in your own US-spec car are unforgettable.
That's why I kept my 2009 E90 LCI Sedan. I've had a stick since I was 15 yr old and I'm keeping it. Starting to redo the interior a bit. One cupholder is AWOL and ordered another. May change out trim. Will look at Apex 18 inch wheels when/if group buys. It's what BMW once was ... but I've got to say, the tech in the new cars makes things easier.
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      09-20-2020, 07:23 PM   #36
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I too experienced the misery that is the F10. The G30, I gotta say, does almost everything really well.

But it is expensive for what it is. Depreciation is horrible. I'm happy that I leased this one. At end of lease, if the 2021 or 2022 has mandatory automatic braking or any of that other annoying "technology", I'll buy out the lease or buy a GTI. I don't want that extra stuff, and I sure don't want to pay for it.

The new Audi A6 has abysmal steering. I haven't seen the new E class yet. I never cared for Lexus. I can't get past the low rent interiors on the Tesla.

I do like the 850i; I test drove a couple of them, borrowing one for the weekend in drop-top form. Darn nice. But also a hundred large. That's a lot of money, and those big cars depreciate even worse than our little fives.

BTW, I traded a F01 750i on my 540i. The latter is only a couple of inches shorter.
The depreciation is why I took in an orphaned '17 540i M - CF mirrors and rear spoiler are nice. Kind of loaded except no ventilated seats. Only 26k mi.
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      09-20-2020, 10:40 PM   #37
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Another factor in reducing options count is the newish WLTP testing regime. Unlike previous testing regimes in Europe every single option combo much be tested before sale. With our cars having almost infinite combinations there is no realistic alternative but to cut the options or bundle into packs.
This is a terrific insight, totally missed by folks on this side of the Atlantic, and on that "other" BMW website, the one that is following in RoadFly's footsteps.

So 3 inexorable factors:
  • Like all manufacturers, BMW needs to play in China, a nation without car guys.
  • Logical Apex's Millennial brethren are too busy staring into their screens to live a visceral life with real kinesthetic experiences. For them, SIM racing is the same as the real thing, and owning a car makes no more sense than owning a (non-electric) bicycle.
  • The mandating of autonomous features and the rise in testing requirements by those progressive socialist killjoy wankers in the EU

I'm hoping the 4 Gran Coupe fulfills the promise of the 4 Concept. Otherwise, I will either be letting a current 8 Series owner take the depreciation hit and buy CPO, of jump to Porsche or Jag when the lease on my 2020 540 ends.

(And Logical Apex, you and your Millennial brethren may scoff at us "glorified renters", but someday you will learn. I own both my homes because I want to keep them long term. But cars, phones, laptops and other toys? I'm too old - and to smart - to be stuck with stale tech. Windows ME, anyone?)
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      09-21-2020, 08:14 AM   #38
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I thought it was worth (re)posting this. In order to discuss where the 5 is going, I guess you need to discuss where it has been.


https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big...n-bmw-5-series
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      09-21-2020, 09:31 AM   #39
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I thought it was worth (re)posting this. In order to discuss where the 5 is going, I guess you need to discuss where it has been.


https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big...n-bmw-5-series

He gives too much praise to the F10 - floats like a butterfly, handles like your Dad's '72 Caddy. I modded my F10 but not enough. I should not have to spend $5k more for decent handling. But they did tighten it up a tad but it took 7 years with the 2016.

The G30 with M is a different animal. Lighter, handles well, sterring in sport mode is better, doesn't start skidding on a left turn from a traffic light as my F10 did. Not as bulky.

I don't do the autonomous option on the G30 - don't have it. I can barely feel the steering wheel in strong mode when I get in another lane but HUD warns me.

The F30 with M Suspension is what I want as a daily drive - it has cajones. Cut the Run Flats or as some want - get the Michelin RFTs. And you have a sporting car or a cruiser - your choice. It is refined with a harder edge than the previous model - comfort with athleticism.

Of course, not as die hard as some want and that's where the aftermarket cares for you.

The F30 just lacks that emotion that an older 3 Series gave you. It's manners are almost too refined. But in the era of cell phones and business in cars, maybe that's the market. I can't blame them - but give us options.


The old BMW? When I get in my 2009 328i with sport suspension and stick - that's what I get - an oldtime BMW. Why they can't translate more of that into the F30 ... I don't know. Perhaps because the 5 Series has always been more of a refined market.

Still, on a long drive, I want to drive the G30 or F10, not the E90. The G30 leaves you refreshed and relaxed and with less highway hypnosis. And I appreciate the ride, the quiet, going 90 mph without noticing it. "90? You can't be serious." Yes, yes, you can.
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      09-21-2020, 10:05 AM   #40
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I'd jack in the autonomies stuff if I could have the steering feel from e39 (530i) in a heartbeat.
The steering weight and feel is the one thing I really miss and for me , the main reason the car doesn't get a 10/10. It's a Damn good car but with improved steering feel it would be close to perfect ( at least for me)

I fear we may never get decent steering again with electric steering ??
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      09-21-2020, 10:23 AM   #41
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I'd jack in the autonomies stuff if I could have the steering feel from e39 (530i) in a heartbeat.
The steering weight and feel is the one thing I really miss and for me , the main reason the car doesn't get a 10/10. It's a Damn good car but with improved steering feel it would be close to perfect ( at least for me)

I fear we may never get decent steering again with electric steering ??
I fear that too. Just can't emulate physical things with computers to the same degree of almost instinctual connection with the car. Like I never got used to touch screen keyboards after blackberry/droid. 10 years later and I still hate them lol
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      09-21-2020, 01:11 PM   #42
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Pretty difficult to have autonomous driving without EPS. And love it or hate it, that's where Elon is leading us all. Welcome to the Promised Land!
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      09-21-2020, 02:09 PM   #43
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Pretty difficult to have autonomous driving without EPS. And love it or hate it, that's where Elon is leading us all. Welcome to the Promised Land!
Indeed! This reminds me of https://twitter.com/atroyn/status/10...714115?lang=en
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