[roblaw]

I watch the forums frequently and recently I wonder what BMW's long term plans are for the 5 series. Sorry for the long post.

I currently drive a 2020 540 which I ordered (modestly equipped). My wife has a 2020 MB GLE 350, also modestly equipped (ordered too). And I just bought my son a 2020 Honda Accord (off the lot during COVID).

Many of the posts on the X5 forum noted that some options have been removed for 2021 (although some may be supply problems and may re-appear later). I note a general apathy, if not disappointment, on how few improvements occurred with the LCI for the 5 series.

For perspective I have been an auto enthusiast my entire life. I love reading about and learning about cars in general. Until recently I was pretty frugal, not really buying nicer cars for myself (my wife has always had the nicer car) until recently. My first "nicer" care was a Hyundai Genesis in 2012. While lacking the BMW/MB/Audi interior quality, it was a tank structurally, quiet and reliable. Despite high end suspension hardware, tuning was poor with a ride worse than a Camry. When I went to trade in I drive a 328i (yes, not a direct competitor in size but in price with the new for 2015 Genesis). It cost the same, leased much better and accelerated far better. It also rode better than the 2012 (but not quite as well as the 2016). I loved the ZF 8 speed and the power. The wind noise was an issue and it took a while to get the seats right (never perfect but I adjusted). At the end of that lease I got a lovely, well equipped CPO 535 (2016). It was a wonderful car but given the monthly depreciation on it (and knowing I really wanted a new car often enough that I would end up in the red trading it in in 3 years) I ended up trading for a new ordered 540 in December of 2019. My new one actually has less equipment than my 535 (no nappa as I wanted a beige interior) but otherwise is by far provided the most enjoyment of any car that I have owned.

Why does someone spend the extra money for a car like a 5 series? The mid level Accord I purchased for my son is solid, well built, roomier than my 540 and likely to be more reliable (and hold its value better had I not leased the 540). Everyone on this forum has a different reason for choosing the 5 series. For some they would never own anything other than a Bimmer (although I think brand loyalty is waning). For some it is the name. For some it is the sporting nature of the MSport (704) equipped cars, although even they are not the sporting vehicles BMW once produced. For some it is the comfort (if equipped with the adaptive suspension, or in my case, the base suspension with the 18 non-runflat tires).

For me, there are several reasons for my purchase decision. I like the RWD/AWD handling despite my car not being an Msport or having big wheels. I simply prefer it despite the fact that I am not that speedy a driver. I also love the high quality interior materials. As I have said, my wife has a GLE. I have had a current model e class as a loaner. The interior is more modern and MB, in general, does the screens better. But the materials in the BMW are superior if you do the touch and tap test. And I very much prefer the user interface. And, the kicker is the powertrain. I have yet to drive a car that has a better calibrated drivetrain than the 540. It is smooth, powerful, responsive and gets decent fuel economy to boot. Frankly I cannot imagine how fun the 550 and M5 models are given the very ample power in the 540. And with the base suspension and the 18 inch non-runflats, the car rides reasonably well on the atrocious roads in SE Pennsylvania.

One of the things, however, that really defines the the upscale German cars is to individualize the cars (audi excepted). The LCI is telling. Options and flexibility have been removed to a modest extent and others have stated that BMW is discouraging dealers from custom orders, which a substantial number of us do. I think more than any other market, the ability to customize our vehicles is the difference between them and more modest vehicles. Even though I am not a fan of the Dakota leather (but absolutely need the multi-contour seats) I like the options that are provided. The ability to have a soft (standard), firm (704), combo (MSport with the adaptive option without going full DHP) on the 2020 was one of the reasons that I went with my 540. And I think for the many enthusiasts on this forum it is a primary reason they have chosen an upscale German car.

Having taken away several of the suspension options (leather options, etc) and yet leaving them on the 3 series, as well as keeping the old, lower powered 4 cyl. makes me think BMW is trying to encourage people to go for the X5 and abandon the mid-size sedan. While a few options appeared to be removed from the x5, it has the adaptive dampers standard and the standard engine is a peach. Apples to apples it costs little it any more for a larger vehicle that still performs very well (although I much prefer the sedan driving characteristics).

It seems like MB put a lot more effort into the 2021 updates to the E Class and the revamp of the S Class than BMW did for the 5 series LCI and the 7 series (yes that was an LCI so maybe the new one in 2022 will be as good the as the new S Class). It seems like the real effort have gone into the X5 and X7 models.

It is likely that either my current 540 or the one I can hopefully get at the end of this lease will be my last ICE BMW. In the future, it seems, a large share of the market with be fully electric. If that is the case the argument for the upscale German sedan will be even more challenging. RWD/AWD handling will be less relevant because electric cars have a lower center of gravity and better weight distribution because the motor/battery is evenly distributed under the car. And while an Avalon today takes 6 seconds to get to 60 compared to mid 4s for my 540 (and has a V6 compared to our creamy inline 6), all electric cars are pretty responsive, even the less expensive ones. And I think we have hit peak acceleration. When the electric wave hits, most cars will accelerate very strongly at normal speeds. And don't get me started that many of the safety/tech items (ACC, etc) that are already standard or low cost options on cars at 1/2 the price of a mid-line 5 series.

For the last 40 years the difference in driving quality and content between the luxury class and more mundane cars has contracted. So what will BMW (MB/Audi/Jag, etc) use to justify their higher cost (and particularly in sedans where the sales numbers are declining and profits are lower)? Nice quality materials may not do it if we are stuck with Toyota/Honda style packages when the driving experience is likely to be even closer than it is today.

[SteveinArizona]

excellent post!! Says it all very well.

[LogicalApex]

Great write up and I'll share my thoughts as a fellow owner who has been pondering the same question...

The roads in SE PA are something awful. I like to call them third world country roads, but I've been in some with better roads than ours in SE PA... Sorry for that tangent.

I think BMW and other German marques have been really trying to figure this out for a while now. Let's take a step back from before Tesla was throwing grenades in various aspects of the market and look at where the "basic" marques have been continually chewing up more of the rope. Toyota, Honda, etc ere producing cars that have interior features that used to be the hallmark of luxury marques like leather seating and safety technology has now been thrown into the mix. To add even more pressure to the pile regular consumers care less and less about the systems car makers build to set themselves apart, like iDrive, and seek out compatibility with CarPlay and Android Auto which makes every car identical on the infotainment perspective.

The most important area these companies will have to focus on is shifting to high quality service end to end to deliver a much smoother ownership experience as a competitive differentiator. Toyota may have the features, but they don't have the sales or service experience focused on the customer to the same degree -- at least that is the way the German marques will need to make it. Even Tesla still is far behind here. This is the short term solution. Akin to the "interior quality" discussion you'll often hear when a person compares a highly optioned Toyota to a similarly highly optioned BMW.

The longer term question though is tricker. I think BMW is confused and trying to find a way to figure out the best path forward. The car industry is at a bunch of forks all at once and it isn't really clear yet where the chips will fall on a lot of them. Tesla has caused a fork with electric cars and has propelled the industry to take it seriously (environmental regulations are getting tougher to which helps), but Tesla isn't a company that people like us want long term. Their driving mission isn't just electric cars, but to move the industry to a point where there are no drivers at all -- just passengers. In that future German cars have a very grim future where people have little attachment to their cars or the driving experience.

I think BMW weakened the LCI a lot to help funnel the few remaining 5-Series buyers into tiered options to limit options buying. The argument made here is due to supplier issues and etc, but I don't think that is it at all. I think they're finding Tesla and MB competition stiff right now and this will make that easier to counter in the near-term. They can have more "highly optioned" (since there are so few options now) cars on the lot to push you up or down a tier based on affordability and get a quicker sale. Including aggressive lease deals or residuals gaming as needed to counter the competitive rush. I see it is a realization they are in a much tighter spot between Tesla and MB that they can't match until the full platform refresh comes along with a full electric option.

I was very happy to get my 5, but BMW really needs to get better as an organization if they'll be competing long term.

[scoale]

Interesting post. I talked my wife into the 5 series versus, say, an SAV because I preferred a sporty sedan (how sporty is probably a good discussion). I didn't cross shop because i am a BMW guy. That said, my loyalty, to your point, is waning.

Tough to know where BMW is heading. I'm not sure BMW knows. Most of us came to the brand for the driving experience - and the driving experience is now less distinct. And electric cars will redefine the definition of distinct.

[MauiSteve]

Why choose a 5 series?

I cross shopped a Lexus ES 350, a Mercedes E 450, Audi A6 and Cadillac CT5. The Caddy was quickly ruled out because I didn't like the styling. Without an Audi dealership near me, I kinda crossed it off. The Lexus was 20 grand cheaper and I believed it would be a reasonable long term car, but I did not like the choices of either red or black interior in their F Sport model. The Mercedes and BMW could be ordered to spec cars and that was appealing. In the end it just came down to the fantastic firm suspension and MSport looks. The BMW infotainment was better than Lexus or Mercedes too.

Where will BMW go with the 5 in the future? Hopefully keeping it the most sporty looking and top handling fun-to-drive sedan in the segment. And not making it difficult for customers to do ordered vehicles, or making weird bundled option packages that force me to buy stuff I don't want or need.

I'm not ready to make the transition from a sedan to a SUV just yet, though I easily see more that ten times as many X5's to 5-series in my area.

[COBodom]

This is my 3rd 5 series. Major factor in my decision making was a simple fact that BMW leases are just unbeatable. Similarly configured Benz or Audi would be somewhere around $300 more a month. I did cross-shop among the 3 Germans over the last 10 years.

Where is BMW going with the 5 series? I looked in my crystal ball and I see the 5 is here to stay, just like the A6 and the E-Class. The car will be highly electrified (like the rumored next M5), if not offered in a fully electric flavor. Electrification will be the answer to the straight line performance question which now a base Tesla model 3 can challenge (540xi). Now that BMW does over the air updates, options as subscription services will likely kick in soon as well (which I like).

On the topic of LCI, I think Benz did a better job with the LCI mainly by NOT removing options but by adding refreshed items. However, if we don't compare against Benz and if we forgive the missing option(s), the G30 LCI seems to be bringing more pronounced changes than the F10 LCI back in 2015 (significantly refreshed lights, much bigger LCD screen, the electric motor for 540, etc). Overall I think they did a decent job with the LCI. I wish BMW added more aggressive hood sculpting mimicking F10, granted hood cosmetics don't typically come via LCI. F10 was and still is such a beautiful sedan. Much greater road presence over G30. Couldn't resist, had to compliment the F10 again....

[martin mustang]

I am with you on this one, being driving the 5 for the last 20 years starting the e39, my current F10 new in 2011 felt solid compare to a loaner G30 we had for couple of weeks due to porblems with my wife 2017 X5, when purchasing the X5 it was mind blowing how it was notpossible to spec a colour available with the X1, even when ready to pay the individual price tag.
In the old days the experience was nice, you received a free subscription to BMW magazine, and a gift always followed all be it smal one like memeory stick .... but the experience was different, now not only the options are limited, I mean the colour choice is shocking, without refering to other options.
BMW is now at full speed on volume, hence limited options, I see a drop on the quality, but not surprising it is human nature that volume always drag quality down. Marketing now in charge, I mean loosing the the tradition of RWD with series 2 touring was mind blowing, I am about to change my F10, was looking for 4 series, but good lord the looks are simply shcooking, they simply destroid all the BMW desing features with the new 4, not sure what was the purpose. so I am now looking to venture into another brand maybe a Macan, love the Alfa but with no dealer in the my town and knowing the reliability is not up to standard, not sure I am brave to up for it. either way after many years with BMW, this time arround I may make the jump, we have a new X5 45e due end of this month will be intersting to see if the quality is back to normal!

[DBV1]

Great write-up!

I feel the same way you do. Very BMW loyal and just went into a 2021 5 Series from my 2017 5 Series. For some reason, I don’t have the excitement this time that I usually get when buying a BMW. Overall, the LCI does not have that many changes compared to my 2017. BMW did make some good changes, but just not seem like enough.

This will probably be my last ICE car, so will see happens in 3 years. I was so close to getting a Tesla Model S this time and probably should done it, as that car really intrigues me and would have been something really different for the next 3 years.

[jjscsix]

First of all, sedan sales have tanked badly the past ten years or so. Not just BMW, all of them. That limits how much they want to invest in them.

Second, the Mid cycle update is pretty typical for BMW. In fact, it’s more substantial than the F10s was.

I agree that I’m not likely to buy another one, but my reasons are more complex beacause I retired half way (so far) through owning it. My needs are different and my finances are different. And because of the horrible resale, I regret not leasing, but my reasons were sound at the time.

If they had upped the power to 382 as in the M340, and not dropped the Adjustable damper option, I might be interested if there is a good enough lease deal, but I can’t picture buying another that has no tangible changes compared to what I have.

[bimmer_335]

simply put, for current G30 owners there's not 1 good reason to get LCI. I gave my brute honest opinion to lease end survey i got from BMW last month. With COVID i dont need a car at the moment but for next year BMW is not on my shopping list.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by jjscsix

First of all, sedan sales have tanked badly the past ten years or so. Not just BMW, all of them. That limits how much they want to invest in them.

Second, the Mid cycle update is pretty typical for BMW. In fact, it’s more substantial than the F10s was.

I agree that I’m not likely to buy another one, but my reasons are more complex beacause I retired half way (so far) through owning it. My needs are different and my finances are different. And because of the horrible resale, I regret not leasing, but my reasons were sound at the time.

If they had upped the power to 382 as in the M340, and not dropped the Adjustable damper option, I might be interested if there is a good enough lease deal, but I can’t picture buying another that has no tangible changes compared to what I have.

You have hit the nail on the head, IMHO, regarding newer BMWs. They don't give us enough reason to change.

For example, if they brought the 545e to the states, I would likely have upgraded from my 530e; but now with no 545e I will likely keep my 2018 530e for seven years.

I couldn't even get my current car after the LCI as I have the adaptive dampers and nightvision.

Maybe...maybe...BMW will attract enough newer buyers to make up for the lost sales but I am not so sure, especially when you factor in the new bugs bunny grills.

[ted99]

I bought an X5 40e after my F10 because the tea leaves all said that SUV's were the way of the future. I liked the extra carrying ability and carrying groceries home with the A/C extending to the load area was a plus. But I went back to the 2020 530e when the lease was up for two reasons: 1) Hard ride over the pot hole-filled streets, despite the rear air suspension. and 2) the high-center feeling on fast curving roads. Is it really necessary to give an SUV a hard ride with no compliance--or is it a design choice? On high speed mountain roads while on a trip, I always felt like I was sitting up on a box, rather than feeling like part of the car. I had that same feeling test driving the Audi e-Tron and it's all-air suspension also lacked compliance. I wonder what the suspension tuning will be on the Audi e-Tron Sportback and if the air suspension will drop the ride height more than the standard e-Tron at speed?

In any event, I fear that I may be forced into the SUV form-factor when I replace the 530e. I'm looking forward to driving the new Porsche "Long-roof" Taycan in an RWD-only platform. Perhaps it will be the optimum compromise. I don't really object to the SUV form factor, just the non-compliant suspensions that manufacturers attach to it.

[stein_325i]

I'm not sure BMW knows what to do with the 5er honestly. Currently in the lineup, they seem confused on whether to make their cars more sporty, or more luxurious, but then end up failing at both ends of the spectrum, with the 7er, 8er and Z4 being great examples of this. I definitely agree with OP, the X5 and X7 are probably the best BMW's in the lineup right now after the M2C. They finally gave the cars a beautiful and modern interior that is competitive. Sit in any new X5/7 with the ivory white/night blue interior and it is truly gorgeous, and finally makes a BMW feel special inside for its price tag, especially since MB upped their game starting with the W222 S-Class in 2013. The X5 and 7 do most of what any SUV buyer wants really well and overall are home runs for BMW in my opinion.

While I do say this, it also makes me sad that in my opinion the best BMW's on sale other than the M2 are two large SUV's, especially since the company is built and prided on itself being "the ultimate driving machine" which no SUV, not matter how much horsepower or tuning you put into it, will ever be. I just think their sedans/coupes are becoming less distinctive and competitive in the market. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's, it was clear in the compact and mid-size class (and even the largest class of flagships with the E38) what car to get if you wanted the driver's choice. The 3er and 5er were ahead of the entire class, but now, the competition has caught up and learned their tricks while BMW has been asleep at the wheel chasing the audience who wants the badge without all the sportiness and heritage that it actually stands for. While this creates better sales overall, it loses out on your most loyal and enthusiast customers, of which I would consider myself an example of. After 20+ years of BMW's I do not have a single new one in my garage, only two older ones, and we have two new MB's instead for the wife and I, and I will likely plan on another as a replacement for my daily. The story is similar for my father, who was very devoted to the brand since the 70's. A very valued customer who not only bought BMW's for himself, but was a part of the BMW CCA, many customer surveys and seminars which he would attend to give his opinion on future vehicles, and has gone to many BMW sponsored events and recommended the brand to many. He has owned everything from E12 to E28, two E34's, two E39's and he currently still has his E60, which he refuses to give up after test driving an F10 and detesting it, and the same happened with my mother's car, as she leased a G30 (which I then received) which he also didn't like.

As for EV's, BMW doesn't know what to do there either. They still believe in sharing a EV and ICE platform together, when its clear that there are many downfalls to efficiency and design to this choice, but obviously BMW being BMW went this way for one reason alone, its cheaper. This is especially confusing since this was one of the reasons that the prior CEO was fired from the brand. Even MB has realized after building the EQC which is an incredible flop, that a BEV on a specialized platform is necessary and will go ahead producing an EQS, EQE and EQ SUV's on a dedicated EV platform in hopes of maximum efficiency, power and range. As for how BMW will make their EV's distinctive other than grotesque looks and unnecessary large fake grills, I'm not sure. I think they will tout build quality and low lease rates to get many sales and hope that the brand loyalty will cash in of those who have been eyeing Tesla. It will be very interesting to see how it pans out, because it seems many BMW customers have been eyeing Tesla, with surveys even showing that the 3er was the second most traded in vehicle for a Model 3 (Prius was number one), and that of brands hurt by Tesla sales, BMW was at the top.

Overall the future of cars seems it could be very promising or very depressing to be honest.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I'm not sure BMW knows what to do with the 5er honestly. Currently in the lineup, they seem confused on whether to make their cars more sporty, or more luxurious, but then end up failing at both ends of the spectrum, with the 7er, 8er and Z4 being great examples of this. I definitely agree with OP, the X5 and X7 are probably the best BMW's in the lineup right now after the M2C. They finally gave the cars a beautiful and modern interior that is competitive. Sit in any new X5/7 with the ivory white/night blue interior and it is truly gorgeous, and finally makes a BMW feel special inside for its price tag, especially since MB upped their game starting with the W222 S-Class in 2013. The X5 and 7 do most of what any SUV buyer wants really well and overall are home runs for BMW in my opinion.

While I do say this, it also makes me sad that in my opinion the best BMW's on sale other than the M2 are two large SUV's, especially since the company is built and prided on itself being "the ultimate driving machine" which no SUV, not matter how much horsepower or tuning you put into it, will ever be. I just think their sedans/coupes are becoming less distinctive and competitive in the market. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's, it was clear in the compact and mid-size class (and even the largest class of flagships with the E38) what car to get if you wanted the driver's choice. The 3er and 5er were ahead of the entire class, but now, the competition has caught up and learned their tricks while BMW has been asleep at the wheel chasing the audience who wants the badge without all the sportiness and heritage that it actually stands for. While this creates better sales overall, it loses out on your most loyal and enthusiast customers, of which I would consider myself an example of. After 20+ years of BMW's I do not have a single new one in my garage, only two older ones, and we have two new MB's instead for the wife and I, and I will likely plan on another as a replacement for my daily. The story is similar for my father, who was very devoted to the brand since the 70's. A very valued customer who not only bought BMW's for himself, but was a part of the BMW CCA, many customer surveys and seminars which he would attend to give his opinion on future vehicles, and has gone to many BMW sponsored events and recommended the brand to many. He has owned everything from E12 to E28, two E34's, two E39's and he currently still has his E60, which he refuses to give up after test driving an F10 and detesting it, and the same happened with my mother's car, as she leased a G30 (which I then received) which he also didn't like.

As for EV's, BMW doesn't know what to do there either. They still believe in sharing a EV and ICE platform together, when its clear that there are many downfalls to efficiency and design to this choice, but obviously BMW being BMW went this way for one reason alone, its cheaper. This is especially confusing since this was one of the reasons that the prior CEO was fired from the brand. Even MB has realized after building the EQC which is an incredible flop, that a BEV on a specialized platform is necessary and will go ahead producing an EQS, EQE and EQ SUV's on a dedicated EV platform in hopes of maximum efficiency, power and range. As for how BMW will make their EV's distinctive other than grotesque looks and unnecessary large fake grills, I'm not sure. I think they will tout build quality and low lease rates to get many sales and hope that the brand loyalty will cash in of those who have been eyeing Tesla. It will be very interesting to see how it pans out, because it seems many BMW customers have been eyeing Tesla, with surveys even showing that the 3er was the second most traded in vehicle for a Model 3 (Prius was number one), and that of brands hurt by Tesla sales, BMW was at the top.

Overall the future of cars seems it could be very promising or very depressing to be honest.

Well said.

I am glad we're getting such hefty competition in the automotive space right now. I can't help but feel like it hasn't been this competitive in a long time (not that I'm old enough to know if that is really an accurate statement).

But those forks I mentioned earlier are quite complex indeed. Do we want cars packed to the gills with tech and safety features pushing for the end of drivers altogether? Do we want ICE gone entirely? How do we make an EV "sporty" beyond nose bleeding acceleration? So forth and so on.

I'm a millennial so I want more technology in the package than I think most enthusiasts care for. But BMW needs to get a BEV platform out with a fully electric 5 on it. They also need to figure out the tech to execute the features well...

In all honesty though, I think the future of cars is getting very bleak. Look around you as you drive now. More people are focused on their phones than they are the road or the driving characteristics of their car (and this is irrespective of brand). BMW is a majority lease brand which means a majority are glorified renters. I see a future where people subscribe to a service that lets them drive a car for as long as they like (as long as they keep paying the fees) and swap when they need to. And cars becoming even more appliance and commodity like that they already are. A bleak future for people like us...

Hell, even Tesla with their offering is delivery subpar interiors and lowest in the industry service to their buyers and they are overrun with orders and stock price climbs. That isn't sending a very good signal to existing car makers that they need to cater better to their customers.

[Wivenhoe]

Here in Europe the legislation is becoming more and more prescriptive so all new cars are more a product of legislation rather than design e.g. front end pedestrian protection, semi autonomous braking and soon to be mandatory speed limit adherence. The German manufacturers have to comply with all this and as brands such as Audi own so many sub brands using the same platforms it’s no surprise that differentials between brands are narrowing. In Britain SUV sales far outweigh saloons so BMW are following the market by concentrating on the X series.

This is my first BMW after 6 new Merc’s. I changed as the plug-in E Class I wanted optioned up was a minimum of 9 months for delivery. My last Merc was a E350e and that took 8 months from order so I knew the 9 months wait was going to be real. BMW quoted 3 months and delivered on the promised date. However, I have had loads of issues with the ID7 Lite and even now I am waiting for a software update to rectify these issues. Mercedes Me is streets ahead in every way over Connected Drive. I think BMW really have to up their game in terms of IT - it was only recently CarPlay became free, Android Auto is only available to recent cars and so called over the air maps updates seem to only work once a year but there are manual downloads available.

Apologies if this is reading a bit of a rant but I think BMW could differentiate itself a lot more with just a bit of effort and reflecting more what BMW buyers want rather than what the accountants say can be afforded !

[Dephead2004]

Another factor in reducing options count is the newish WLTP testing regime. Unlike previous testing regimes in Europe every single option combo much be tested before sale. With our cars having almost infinite combinations there is no realistic alternative but to cut the options or bundle into packs.
Added to this is the shortage of testing facilities and covid19 and they have a difficult situation for automotive manufacturers

[martin mustang]

I am afraid the Sedan sector have nothing to do with the quality and experience, my wife switched to BMW x cars in 2011, the X3 was complete joke when down to quality, switched to an X5, it was delivered in 2017 so a year before the end of line for the F15, and BMW managed to deliver the car with non aligned dash vents, you can only miss it fi you blind! something you expect from a Dacia! the seat control switches box come off first week, the dealer answer was the screw broke on the inside, we expercting a new one shortly hoping it is better, the only reason we keep gowing back to BMW is the trade in value, and must admit they still good when down to driving feel in comparision to others all be it this fading away with every new model.

Originally Posted by jjscsix

First of all, sedan sales have tanked badly the past ten years or so. Not just BMW, all of them. That limits how much they want to invest in them.

Second, the Mid cycle update is pretty typical for BMW. In fact, it’s more substantial than the F10s was.

I agree that I’m not likely to buy another one, but my reasons are more complex beacause I retired half way (so far) through owning it. My needs are different and my finances are different. And because of the horrible resale, I regret not leasing, but my reasons were sound at the time.

If they had upped the power to 382 as in the M340, and not dropped the Adjustable damper option, I might be interested if there is a good enough lease deal, but I can’t picture buying another that has no tangible changes compared to what I have.

[Lawguy]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

...BMW is a majority lease brand which means a majority are glorified renters. I see a future where people subscribe to a service that lets them drive a car for as long as they like (as long as they keep paying the fees) and swap when they need to. And cars becoming even more appliance and commodity like that they already are. A bleak future for people like us...

This is incredibly astute.

[Desmond79]

Having owned BMWs, mostly 3 Series, since 1979 and now 5 Series, I have a guess as to where BMW is going, and it's discussed above.

At least the trend is going to Sport. The F10 was not the BMW that I drove out of college. It was more like Dad's '79 Cadillac - floating and leaning - felt unsafe at any speed. Even with new springs, struts, and bars, I was only putting lipstick on a pig. After 45k miles on a Certified PreOwned 2014, BMW Dealers started calling me about trading it in.

Last week, I drove by a dealer with a good rep and found a 2017 540i M w/25k miles and lots of bells and whistles. But the bottom line is the drive. The G30 is a superior upgrade to the F10. It handles better and corners more precisely. Passengers don't fly out of their seats on small street elevation changes.

As to the trend towards luxury cruiser, I blame the BMW and the Chinese Mainland for the recent trend in much of the line through 2016. From my reading, BMW started changing to larger rear seats and cruisers because the Chinese Mainland want to be driven instead of driving. That's what MSM articles state, more or less. In other words, the Western driver is getting shoved off his German Sports Sedan for the international market and money. But now BMW now seems to be going back to a more sporting vein in its lines.

And the G30 is a more sporty Series than the F10 - Thankfully.

The 540i is not the sport sedan it once was, something is lacking, je ne sais quoi, maybe a better car-driver connection, but it is an excellent balance of luxury, cruising, and sport sedan. I'm just a senior guy that enjoys a connected ride and tunes. Might need BavSound eventually. As I type this, I'm changing to non RFT's and the Firestone Guy is giving me sh$t for changing. "Your wheels will crack! Handling will change." Good wheel insurance, baby. Good wheel insurance. Better handling. Smoother Ride. But I did go 45k without issues until some guy invaded my lane at 50 mph and I had to go into a curb to avoid a body collision - the damage was 2 wheels, tires and 2 front struts.

But where is BMW going? Hybrid then Electric. Sporty electric. As said above, subscription for a monthly fee is coming sooner or later. Kinda weird.

The era of man and his faithful horse is setting, my friends. Where has the romance gone?

You either embrace change or die. Better to live and find new ways to enjoy. Find a stick while you can. I've kept my 2009 because of the 6 spd manual.

[scoale]

Originally Posted by Desmond79

Having owned BMWs, mostly 3 Series, since 1979 and now 5 Series, I have a guess as to where BMW is going, and it's discussed above.

At least the trend is going to Sport. The F10 was not the BMW that I drove out of college. It was more like Dad's '79 Cadillac - floating and leaning - felt unsafe at any speed. Even with new springs, struts, and bars, I was only putting lipstick on a pig. After 45k miles on a Certified PreOwned 2014, BMW Dealers started calling me about trading it in.

Last week, I drove by a dealer with a good rep and found a 2017 540i M w/25k miles and lots of bells and whistles. But the bottom line is the drive. The G30 is a superior upgrade to the F10. It handles better and corners more precisely. Passengers don't fly out of their seats on small street elevation changes.

As to the trend towards luxury cruiser, I blame the BMW and the Chinese Mainland for the recent trend in much of the line through 2016. From my reading, BMW started changing to larger rear seats and cruisers because the Chinese Mainland want to be driven instead of driving. That's what MSM articles state, more or less. In other words, the Western driver is getting shoved off his German Sports Sedan for the international market and money. But now BMW now seems to be going back to a more sporting vein in its lines.

And the G30 is a more sporty Series than the F10 - Thankfully.

The 540i is not the sport sedan it once was, something is lacking, je ne sais quoi, maybe a better car-driver connection, but it is an excellent balance of luxury, cruising, and sport sedan. I'm just a senior guy that enjoys a connected ride and tunes. Might need BavSound eventually. As I type this, I'm changing to non RFT's and the Firestone Guy is giving me sh$t for changing. "Your wheels will crack! Handling will change." Good wheel insurance, baby. Good wheel insurance. Better handling. Smoother Ride. But I did go 45k without issues until some guy invaded my lane at 50 mph and I had to go into a curb to avoid a body collision - the damage was 2 wheels, tires and 2 front struts.

But where is BMW going? Hybrid then Electric. Sporty electric. As said above, subscription for a monthly fee is coming sooner or later. Kinda weird.

The era of man and his faithful horse is setting, my friends. Where has the romance gone?

You either embrace change or die. Better to live and find new ways to enjoy. Find a stick while you can. I've kept my 2009 because of the 6 spd manual.

Agree 540 is an improvement versus F10 535. I set out to buy a used 535 but ended up buying a new 540 after test driving both extensively.

Also agree that subscription service is coming. In general, people like us will probably subscribe down the road but have a "classic" in the garage. In general, young people won't have anything in the garage because they are not as into cars as we are.

Definitely agree that electric will replace ICE. Maintenance, in particular, is compelling. An internal combustion engine contains literally hundreds of moving parts: air, fuel, spark, oiling and cooling systems, and all associated peripherals/sensors/etc. For me, once battery weights come down, range increases, and variety of vehicles increase, the value proposition of electric will be tough to argue.

[Warp Ten]

I have a much bigger worry about the future of the 5 Series--what is it going to look like? If they adopt the new 4 Series grille (below), I will end my run of BMWs at 10. When I first saw a picture of the new 4 Series I almost gagged. Like Audi's early Largemouth Bass approach to a grille--Bob

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Warp Ten

I have a much bigger worry about the future of the 5 Series--what is it going to look like? If they adopt the new 4 Series grille (below), I will end my run of BMWs at 10. When I first saw a picture of the new 4 Series I almost gagged. Like Audi's early Largemouth Bass approach to a grille--Bob

+1