[FarHills]

Hi Forums,

I've had a 2018 530xe for 3 years, and now that I'm selling it to Vroom, I figured it's time to share some lessons learned for the benefit of the community.

I bought the car in NY and it was great there. Once I moved to Las Vegas, the following issues became immediately apparent and caused me to sell the car:

1. Don't be fooled by the combined electric + gas HP/torque rating. Once you're off the line and cruising, you're at the mercy of 180 HP 4-banger pulling a 4400-pound car. Normally that's fine, but if you live in a hilly terrain with high speed limits at 3000ft above sea level, all of a sudden the car can't merge onto a highway fast enough. You can floor it, you can sport it, do whatever - there just isn't enough bang in the gas engine. I always had the inline 6's prior, and never had this issue.

2. Electric engine is fine if you're driving around town. As long as your town is small and congested like the coasts. Here in Vegas you'll go 55 on streets and 85 on highways. Paradoxically, this means you'll never use the electric motor: the car just always requires too much power and has to use the gas one. So you can charge overnight, use the car all day, and still have almost all your batter left since it never got a chance to use it. Go figure!

3. In all-electric mode you can only set cruise control up to 75mph. And if the power isn't enough, it will just slow down, like all the way down to 40mph on like a 3% grade.

4. Gas and electric motors work together ONLY if you floor it. Since few of us normally drive with the pedal to the metal, you're usually running on one or the other.

I can only imagine what a 5400-pound X5 45e is going to experience. I know it has a 6-cyl but the electric one is the same as 530e so it will feel even more inadequate outside of a downtown.

Hope this helps someone looking at hybrid vs not.

[Bob in IL]

It might be a bit off topic, but how has the Vroom experience been so far?

[ted99]

My experience differs. I had a 2018 X5 40e with the four-banger and drove it on a 6000 mi R/T from Houston to Seattle over the Cascades and Rockies both ways and then 2500 mi R/T to NJ and back. I never had any of the problems you mention. Speeds of up to 80 MPH with most Interstate cruising at 75-80 MPH. Never a problem climbing mountains or merging. Averaged 35 MPG on these trips. Traded it for a 2020 530e--no trips, yet, but absolutely no problems with keeping up with 80 MPH Interstate traffic/merges etc on our beltways alongside aggressive TX drivers in electric. In fact, I'm still on my first tank of fuel after nine months.

[FarHills]

Originally Posted by Bob in IL

It might be a bit off topic, but how has the Vroom experience been so far?

It's actually been great, they're paying way more than it's worth: $34.4k on 67K MSRP with 20k miles on it. Carvana was 30k, I didn't even ask a dealer.

[FarHills]

Originally Posted by ted99

My experience differs. I had a 2018 X5 40e with the four-banger and drove it on a 6000 mi R/T from Houston to Seattle over the Cascades and Rockies both ways and then 2500 mi R/T to NJ and back. I never had any of the problems you mention. Speeds of up to 80 MPH with most Interstate cruising at 75-80 MPH. Never a problem climbing mountains or merging. Averaged 35 MPG on these trips. Traded it for a 2020 530e--no trips, yet, but absolutely no problems with keeping up with 80 MPH Interstate traffic/merges etc on our beltways alongside aggressive TX drivers in electric. In fact, I'm still on my first tank of fuel after nine months.

Maybe the difference is that Texas is sea-level and flat? I never had issues either until moving to western vegas. I constantly drive up and down long rolling hills 2000-3500 ft elevations.

[SteveinArizona]

I also have not had the experiences you describe and I drive in a simiilar environment (greater Phoenix).

I sometimes go to a golf course that is on a country road with a 65 mph speed limit -- one lane in each direction. sometimes I end up behind a car pulling a trailer. There are a couple of passing lanes on steep hills and I have used those passing lanes to pass the cars pulling trailers and have not had any problems with the acceleration in doing so.

The only difference I can see is that the OP has an X model and mine is rear wheel drive.

[LogicalApex]

My MY2020 530e is my first BMW so I don't have experience with the 530e from 2018, but your experience is dramatically different than mine. So much so that it sounds like a completely different car. Perhaps there were some updates not installed for I-Step or there were issues with the car?

1. My EV and ICE work together seamlessly and without issue. The only time you are living on the ICE primarily is when you're going fast enough to kick on the ICE, but you're in ECO-Pro mode. Gets you a weaker throttle response and will hold you in the ICE (or EV) longer to save energy. But when I'm on ACC and going at a constant speed that's not a big deal. I've never had the car struggle at merge or even feel like it can't respond well.

2. This must have changed in later model years? For me, in Auto eDrive the car will do up to 65 MPH on electric without issue. Once you've exceeded that it'll kick over to ICE. I've put the car in Max eDrive and got it up to 90 on electric before I had to slow down as I was running out of open highway. So it will allow me anywhere between 90 and 100MPH on Max eDrive.

In Auto eDrive the car will use the EV motor up until about "40%" power or so before it kicks over to ICE. So if you're treating the accelerator like an on/off switch and flooring it at every stop light then, yes, you'll see a lot more ICE action as a result. But I wouldn't run any car that hard PHEV or not.

3. As I noted, I've been up to 90MPH in Max eDrive, but I didn't use ACC to see if that had a hard limit on it. I've never experienced what you've experienced here. I haven't driven on extreme grades though. But are you saying the gas engine couldn't keep up on an extreme slope? I have been on some hilly roads where the ICE kicks on fairly quickly, but this is expected... A steeper grade requires more energy to climb and since your EV motor is only 111HP it might require the combined Gas + EV to climb such a steep grade adequately.

4. This is also not how my car operates. The ONLY mode that has this behavior for me is ECO Pro. If I'm in Comfort mode any request for harder acceleration that doesn't activate kick down will automatically go into eBoost and use combined EV+ICE. Activating kick down gives you a bit more push though as you'll be telling the transmission to go into the lowest safe gear to give you some additional push.

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad time once moving the car to Vegas. But I don't think your experience is typical.

[FarHills]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

My MY2020 530e is my first BMW so I don't have experience with the 530e from 2018, but your experience is dramatically different than mine. So much so that it sounds like a completely different car. Perhaps there were some updates not installed for I-Step or there were issues with the car?

1. My EV and ICE work together seamlessly and without issue. The only time you are living on the ICE primarily is when you're going fast enough to kick on the ICE, but you're in ECO-Pro mode. Gets you a weaker throttle response and will hold you in the ICE (or EV) longer to save energy. But when I'm on ACC and going at a constant speed that's not a big deal. I've never had the car struggle at merge or even feel like it can't respond well.

2. This must have changed in later model years? For me, in Auto eDrive the car will do up to 65 MPH on electric without issue. Once you've exceeded that it'll kick over to ICE. I've put the car in Max eDrive and got it up to 90 on electric before I had to slow down as I was running out of open highway. So it will allow me anywhere between 90 and 100MPH on Max eDrive.

In Auto eDrive the car will use the EV motor up until about "40%" power or so before it kicks over to ICE. So if you're treating the accelerator like an on/off switch and flooring it at every stop light then, yes, you'll see a lot more ICE action as a result. But I wouldn't run any car that hard PHEV or not.

3. As I noted, I've been up to 90MPH in Max eDrive, but I didn't use ACC to see if that had a hard limit on it. I've never experienced what you've experienced here. I haven't driven on extreme grades though. But are you saying the gas engine couldn't keep up on an extreme slope? I have been on some hilly roads where the ICE kicks on fairly quickly, but this is expected... A steeper grade requires more energy to climb and since your EV motor is only 111HP it might require the combined Gas + EV to climb such a steep grade adequately.

4. This is also not how my car operates. The ONLY mode that has this behavior for me is ECO Pro. If I'm in Comfort mode any request for harder acceleration that doesn't activate kick down will automatically go into eBoost and use combined EV+ICE. Activating kick down gives you a bit more push though as you'll be telling the transmission to go into the lowest safe gear to give you some additional push.

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad time once moving the car to Vegas. But I don't think your experience is typical.

I think you're right in that my experience isn't typical. Maybe someone else from challenging terrain areas can chime in?

Just to clarify, #4 was for EV only. ICE will pull it, but will report 80-90% power doing so. Granted, I'd be going 90mph+, but still... shouldn't have to max out just to keep up with fast-moving highway traffic.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by FarHills

I think you're right in that my experience isn't typical. Maybe someone else from challenging terrain areas can chime in?

Just to clarify, #4 was for EV only. ICE will pull it, but will report 80-90% power doing so. Granted, I'd be going 90mph+, but still... shouldn't have to max out just to keep up with fast-moving highway traffic.

How steep are the roads you're climbing? What's the grade?

For #4 you're saying the car will only use the EV motor in "Max eDrive" until you floor it and then the ICE kicks on? If so, this is expected behavior. Max eDrive is for either driving in a electric vehicle only zone (we have none of these on this side of the pond) or if you know your commute is within 100% of your EV range and you'll charge at work so you don't want the ICE kicking on.

For "normal" driving you would be in Auto eDrive allowing the car to dynamically shift between eDrive and ICE as the driving situation demands. You're not supposed to have to "manage" the car.

Perhaps grades like this one at 16%?

[FarHills]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

How steep are the roads you're climbing? What's the grade?

For #4 you're saying the car will only use the EV motor in "Max eDrive" until you floor it and then the ICE kicks on? If so, this is expected behavior. Max eDrive is for either driving in a electric vehicle only zone (we have none of these on this side of the pond) or if you know your commute is within 100% of your EV range and you'll charge at work so you don't want the ICE kicking on.

For "normal" driving you would be in Auto eDrive allowing the car to dynamically shift between eDrive and ICE as the driving situation demands. You're not supposed to have to "manage" the car.

Perhaps grades like this one at 16%?

Yep you're correct on everything, and I figured all this out early on in the game.

I was more referring to the practical aspect of it: when I go to town from my house, it rolls downhill and doesn't need much of anything. When i come back, it uses ICE by default to cruise 75-80mph on a slight uphill. But I still have all my batter left, so I force it into Max eDrive. But that's not enough, and on cruise control and Max eDrive it will just slow down if the power isn't enough.

Grades aren't crazy, 4% or so, see image.

[SteveinArizona]

"Just to clarify, #4 was for EV only. ICE will pull it, but will report 80-90% power doing so. Granted, I'd be going 90mph+, but still... shouldn't have to max out just to keep up with fast-moving highway traffic."

Just because you are using the ICE doesn't mean that you are maxing out your power. My experience, as noted above, is that there is ample power even at high speeds on steep hills.

But if BMW would sell the 545e in the US, I would have gone for it.

Finally, my goals are different from the OP's. My goals for the 530e was to reduce the burden on the environment and to retain for me the right to drive in the car pool lane. MPG, other than as a somewhat crude proxy for carbon release, is not important to me.

But it sounds like it is important to the OP. As the saying goes: different strokes for different folks.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by FarHills

Yep you're correct on everything, and I figured all this out early on in the game.

I was more referring to the practical aspect of it: when I go to town from my house, it rolls downhill and doesn't need much of anything. When i come back, it uses ICE by default to cruise 75-80mph on a slight uphill. But I still have all my batter left, so I force it into Max eDrive. But that's not enough, and on cruise control and Max eDrive it will just slow down if the power isn't enough.

Grades aren't crazy, 4% or so, see image.

A 4% grade isn't that much. I haven't calculated the grade on I-76 in Philly between CC and KOP, but I'm sure that is a 4% grade or higher as you're leaving the city. I've done this drive many many times and am able to stay on pure electric if I want.

If I am doing 75MPH on "Auto eDrive" the ICE engine will be used at those speeds. The only way to get the EV motor used at those speeds is either cruising in ECO Pro mode (where it will "free wheel" and use the EV motor to coast) or hop into Max eDrive. That being said, Electric is less efficient at higher speeds than lower so you'll see the battery drop a bit faster in that scenario.

I've never been on that road and have the car struggle to maintain its speed or severely decline. Though I'll admit I wasn't testing for it specifically either. We have some roads with steep inclines here in Philly and when I drive them I'm usually in Auto eDrive allowing the car to use ICE as needed. But on these same roads my older ICE car would kick in more power to climb those hills. As expected, it takes more power to climb a steep grade!

I was expecting a more extreme grade though like 10%+ we get here in Philly.

https://goo.gl/maps/TGH7B8Nu5Uis1MsUA

[ted99]

Originally Posted by FarHills

Maybe the difference is that Texas is sea-level and flat? I never had issues either until moving to western vegas. I constantly drive up and down long rolling hills 2000-3500 ft elevations.

You are right about flat. I drive 90% of the time in "Max e-drive" at speeds up to 80 MPH, but it is flat and 400' elevation. The only time I will change to "maintain charge" for a portion of a trip is when I know my round trip will exceed 20 mi. I don't see why altitude would have any effect on Max e-drive power from an electric motor. Even with the ICE running, the turbo should compensate for a lot of altitude effect on power. When I was crossing the Rockies (in fact the whole trip), I was in "auto" and the ICE would do it's thing with no hiccups. Downhill, my battery would usually be back at "full" by the bottom of the hill. In fact, the generator draw to charge the battery was very useful in minimizing any brake use to keep below 80 MPH. It was a real positive effect coming down from the Continental Divide 10,000 ft altitude in Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park.