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      03-08-2020, 11:34 PM   #1
JM98
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Talk me into/out of a C6 Z06

So I was at NFZ in AZ this weekend doing half mile racing. Car was flawless and ran 145mph all day without hiccup (FBO no inlets E40).

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There were a bunch of other higher power N54s there but from what I saw most had issues, and the newer M cars were in the low 150's. I even managed to drag what looked like a stock GTR after about 60mph (he had me about 5 car lengths from a dig) which pretty much made my day.

Anyways, there were TONS of Corvettes at the event. From what I saw most were running 150ish and up pretty consistently, but sounded and looked like they were all doing 180+. The sound from a cammed 7.0 and the clean lines definitely turned my eye. I have been preparing for upgraded turbos for a 650ish HP goal, but after Saturday I'm thinking that jumping platforms might be a much better option.

Thoughts? I think I could put up with the mid-90s looking interior for the added performance and rawness of a big V8. Anyone go from BMW to Chevy? This should be a no brainier right?

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      03-09-2020, 12:28 AM   #2
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I have a C7 Z51 love it! I don't really take mine to the drag strip so can't comment on that. I've always liked the corvette, the only thing stopping me from getting one was the horrible interior.

The interior on the C7 is much improved. Honestly there is nothing out there right now in a reasonable price range that even tempts me (C8 maybe if it was offered with a manual). After BMW went all turbo and 4 cylinders I was out. So if the interior bothers you maybe look at the C7s.
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      03-09-2020, 12:32 AM   #3
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Yeah, C7 interior is reasonable, C6 is kind of ridiculous. Just google some pics.
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      03-09-2020, 12:39 AM   #4
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Thats my dilemma. I could invest another $2500ish into making my car a streetable 650Hp, or I can bail for a V8 platform thats not as nice/quiet/daily-able but has much different potential
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      03-09-2020, 02:40 AM   #5
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Well... I just spent about three months Post Hellcat looking at C7 Z06s or Far better (IMO of course) IRL, a BOG standard Z51 Stingray 2LT, maybe a Grand Sport. I've driven all the 7 speed variants, and they are all around good. But the Stingrays with the Z51 package are excellent on the road, all the grip and power you can ever use, while still being comfortable enough to do GT duty. But then I'm driving on public roads 95% of the time

The C7s are awesome, genuinely decent cars, but I've no interest in owning a C6 I don't think unless all I was doing was gutting it for a track car, and that only because they are super cheap. They aren't the ugliest at all, but I think they are the rattiest inside. GM had almost caught up with the modern era, but they were still really rough inside, and they age like meth-heads.

If you're living on the track get a C7 Grand Sport, lap all day and you'll not be limping around with a car that cannot keep itself cool for more than 10 laps or so.

I'm approaching the Z06 from years of Challenger hellcat Ownership though. Not in terms of mission or handling obviously, but in terms of the pointless nature of the Super high HP numbers as they relate to fun.

Even on the Track, unless it's 1/4 mile and you're on some drag radials, the super high horsepower cars are genuinely and truly pointless, meaningless, and on the roads, with cops, kids, and packs of dim toodling along doubly so.

The roads (Corvette and Hellcat forums also) are filled with folks white knuckling their 6-700 HP cod pieces around at 2/3rds a decent pace cause they terrified, having no idea how to cope with the horsepower, that power makes the cars unforgiving, hard on parts, crap on fuel, and really they just don't generate meaningfully better lap times.

If you're just after bragging rights, and like attention from chuckleheads then go for it, (you get lots of attention) get the Z06 but what I've found out in the world and on road courses is that all the Extra power beyond about 500 or so is meaningless. FUN HELL YEAH! But beyond the drama and tiresmoke, 0-60 or so, where casual "NOT GO TO PRISON" fun lives? All the horsepower in the world going to rear tires is just pointless, I know its heresy but it is kinda useless. Line up with a Freaking WRX, or almost anything AWD and IRL you're looking at door handles till about 60 or so. Sure the Hellcat was an absolute beast from 40-80 etc, but from a stop it's just no use. Z06 was the same, you cannot use the 650hp anywhere meaningfully under about 60mph, makes it either pointless, or potentially lethal cause the fun, the edge, lies so high up in envelope. You know how a Miata can be fun at 45 mph? The Z06 or any of the Vettes really, just aren't. I think it's cause the real limits are so high, there's no excitement to be had.

I've just gone from 707hp and a 6 speed man Hellcat to an M4 6-speed just yesterday. I KNOW that the Hellcat would rip this M4s arms off at pretty much any speed above 40 or so. But off the line and to about 60, I'll just be looking at the grumpy front end of that massive Challenger in my mirror. Then of course there's a Whoosh and roar as the Hellcat pisses off, but that's the Hellcats one trick. Kind of exactly like the Z06, sure the Z06 can turn, and stop, but no better than a Grand Sport, it's just a lot more wear and tear followed by power reduced laps as everything overheats. While the Grand Sport or even the much better on the streets Z51 keeps lapping.

Sorry I'm rambling on and on AND ON.... I'd make excuses, but it's just me.


TLDR, From someone whose been living with a monster power beast, all that power is fun for screwing around, but ultimately does nothing but destroy brakes and tires, and insurance rates.

I'd recommend a Grand Sport, for track day use, as you can hammer it all day, or Z51 for Street.

But yeah sorry I'm babbling...
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      03-09-2020, 02:59 AM   #6
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My only experience is with a C5 corvette. The LS lineup of engines is good - better than I thought they would be before I actually tried driving one.

The interior and seating position was awful. I'm 6ft3 and my knees were pressed into the bottom of the steering wheel. I would never own on in my life.

The gearing is just ... weird. Very tall first gear. It sort of works with the torque of the car, but strange.

The handling is pretty garbage by BMW standards, but it does a decent job based on the LS's torque output. Compare the handling to something like a Mustang GT from 2011 and the Corvette actually seems like a decent handling car.

But it's not. If the Mustang was like driving on ice, the corvette is like driving on lightly salted ice. It was exciting to make the rear end scramble for traction when coaxing that LS2 to start producing torque though.

Interior fit/finish and overall quality wasn't as bad as expected, overall, but it's still every bit a GM product which basically speaks for itself. I would imagine the C7 to be a fine choice, maybe, but they're just not my thing.

Bonus - the intake sound of the LS is pretty gnarly.
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      03-09-2020, 03:35 AM   #7
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What is your end goal? If you're going after best possible performance the tuning potential of LS7 is hard to beat. If this is your daily than you'd have to give up quite a bit on comfort and utility side.
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      03-09-2020, 08:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
My only experience is with a C5 corvette. The LS lineup of engines is good - better than I thought they would be before I actually tried driving one.

The interior and seating position was awful. I'm 6ft3 and my knees were pressed into the bottom of the steering wheel. I would never own on in my life.

The gearing is just ... weird. Very tall first gear. It sort of works with the torque of the car, but strange.

The handling is pretty garbage by BMW standards, but it does a decent job based on the LS's torque output. Compare the handling to something like a Mustang GT from 2011 and the Corvette actually seems like a decent handling car.

But it's not. If the Mustang was like driving on ice, the corvette is like driving on lightly salted ice. It was exciting to make the rear end scramble for traction when coaxing that LS2 to start producing torque though.

Interior fit/finish and overall quality wasn't as bad as expected, overall, but it's still every bit a GM product which basically speaks for itself. I would imagine the C7 to be a fine choice, maybe, but they're just not my thing.

Bonus - the intake sound of the LS is pretty gnarly.
A few things, you say your only experience is with the C5, the C6 is different is quite a few ways. First off C5 doesn’t have the LS2 engine but the LS1 which has 50 less hp, 35 less tq then the LS1 in the C5. LS2 has basically the same Hp, tq as the high performance C5 Z06.

You’re a bigger guy than the average Joe so it’s not crazy that you didn’t find the normal sized seating interior cramped. Although my 6’ 3” 240lb buddy(RIP) was quite comfortable driving my C6 which has a bit more leg room than the C5 does. A lot of guys your size have a harder time in many two seat sports cars.
Handling is garbage compared to BMW? Don’t know how you come up with that conclusion. I will say that the C5 suspension and handling was very good in its day and the C6 was improved with better settings and minor changes. Just comparing a C6 Z51 to other sports cars of the time including the 911 and E90 m3 of the same era and they were back and forth in track performance. I would say your Corvette opinion is quite off base with that assessment.
Interior, I’ll give you that to a certain extent. It’s not up to par with most other sports car but the C6 weighs in a bit shy of 3,200lbs. That’s a very nice number and we all know weight savings is a very important factor in sports car performance. Corvette also usually comes in at best bang for the buck sports car comparisons.
We should also remember that the OP is talking about a Z06 C6 which is a huge leap up from from the base C6 let alone the C5 in handling, power, everything.
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      03-09-2020, 08:47 AM   #9
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Excellent motor(minus the head issue that HAS to be corrected)

Car is set up extremely well to be a dynamic RR/Autox/Drag/roll car.

Rear diff and axles get a little questionable around 750rwhp, and trans as well, but is an easy build/fix

Your standard issue Heads/cam car makes excellent power, is rock solid durable, and can be an excellent toy.

I went with an electron blue C5Z with a LS3 motor setup in it. Its a fun weekend toy

the C6 and C5z is a great lightweight weekend toy. obviously the interiors are awful, but it's a toy, not a luxury car
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      03-09-2020, 09:03 AM   #10
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To build on the above, C7 Z06 heat issues were addressed early on. This should not be a consideration. The C7 GS is often referred to as the sweet spot in the lineup though, massive NA torque and that LS7. C7 interior is just as good as anything else IMO.
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      03-09-2020, 09:27 AM   #11
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      03-09-2020, 10:39 AM   #12
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Having owned a Z51 C6, C6Z & 600+ whp C5, I say get the C6Z without question. Stupid fast for low entry fee & easy to work on & maintain, LS is dead nuts reliable. Just get one that already had the heads fixed unless you plan to upgrade them anyway. I'd buy another if they weren't hardtop only. Not willing to pay the premium for the C6 427 vert.
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      03-09-2020, 10:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
What is your end goal? If you're going after best possible performance the tuning potential of LS7 is hard to beat. If this is your daily than you'd have to give up quite a bit on comfort and utility side.
C6 can hold a shit ton of cargo
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      03-09-2020, 10:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
Well... I just spent about three months Post Hellcat looking at C7 Z06s or Far better (IMO of course) IRL, a BOG standard Z51 Stingray 2LT, maybe a Grand Sport. I've driven all the 7 speed variants, and they are all around good. But the Stingrays with the Z51 package are excellent on the road, all the grip and power you can ever use, while still being comfortable enough to do GT duty. But then I'm driving on public roads 95% of the time

The C7s are awesome, genuinely decent cars, but I've no interest in owning a C6 I don't think unless all I was doing was gutting it for a track car, and that only because they are super cheap. They aren't the ugliest at all, but I think they are the rattiest inside. GM had almost caught up with the modern era, but they were still really rough inside, and they age like meth-heads.

If you're living on the track get a C7 Grand Sport, lap all day and you'll not be limping around with a car that cannot keep itself cool for more than 10 laps or so.

I'm approaching the Z06 from years of Challenger hellcat Ownership though. Not in terms of mission or handling obviously, but in terms of the pointless nature of the Super high HP numbers as they relate to fun.

Even on the Track, unless it's 1/4 mile and you're on some drag radials, the super high horsepower cars are genuinely and truly pointless, meaningless, and on the roads, with cops, kids, and packs of dim toodling along doubly so.

The roads (Corvette and Hellcat forums also) are filled with folks white knuckling their 6-700 HP cod pieces around at 2/3rds a decent pace cause they terrified, having no idea how to cope with the horsepower, that power makes the cars unforgiving, hard on parts, crap on fuel, and really they just don't generate meaningfully better lap times.

If you're just after bragging rights, and like attention from chuckleheads then go for it, (you get lots of attention) get the Z06 but what I've found out in the world and on road courses is that all the Extra power beyond about 500 or so is meaningless. FUN HELL YEAH! But beyond the drama and tiresmoke, 0-60 or so, where casual "NOT GO TO PRISON" fun lives? All the horsepower in the world going to rear tires is just pointless, I know its heresy but it is kinda useless. Line up with a Freaking WRX, or almost anything AWD and IRL you're looking at door handles till about 60 or so. Sure the Hellcat was an absolute beast from 40-80 etc, but from a stop it's just no use. Z06 was the same, you cannot use the 650hp anywhere meaningfully under about 60mph, makes it either pointless, or potentially lethal cause the fun, the edge, lies so high up in envelope. You know how a Miata can be fun at 45 mph? The Z06 or any of the Vettes really, just aren't. I think it's cause the real limits are so high, there's no excitement to be had.

I've just gone from 707hp and a 6 speed man Hellcat to an M4 6-speed just yesterday. I KNOW that the Hellcat would rip this M4s arms off at pretty much any speed above 40 or so. But off the line and to about 60, I'll just be looking at the grumpy front end of that massive Challenger in my mirror. Then of course there's a Whoosh and roar as the Hellcat pisses off, but that's the Hellcats one trick. Kind of exactly like the Z06, sure the Z06 can turn, and stop, but no better than a Grand Sport, it's just a lot more wear and tear followed by power reduced laps as everything overheats. While the Grand Sport or even the much better on the streets Z51 keeps lapping.

Sorry I'm rambling on and on AND ON.... I'd make excuses, but it's just me.


TLDR, From someone whose been living with a monster power beast, all that power is fun for screwing around, but ultimately does nothing but destroy brakes and tires, and insurance rates.

I'd recommend a Grand Sport, for track day use, as you can hammer it all day, or Z51 for Street.

But yeah sorry I'm babbling...
C6 interior needed work, yes, but you are being way too harsh on it.

No traction from a dig? Put a real tire on the car?!

My modded C6Z had traction from a dig on the street after I went R888. My 600+ WHP C5 had dig traction with Nitto NT01. My Hellcat had traction with Nitto DRs.
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      03-09-2020, 10:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
A few things, you say you’re only experience is with the C5, the C6 is different is quite a few ways. First off C5 doesn’t have the LS2 engine but the LS1 which has 50 less hp, 35 less tq then the LS1 in the C5. LS2 has basically the same Hp, tq as the high performance C5 Z06.

You’re a bigger guy than the average Joe so it’s not crazy that you didn’t find the normal sized seating interior cramped. Although my 6’ 3” 240lb buddy(RIP) was quite comfortable driving my C6 which has a bit more leg room than the C5 does. A lot of guys your size have a harder time in many two seat sports cars.
Handling is garbage compared to BMW? Don’t know how you come up with that conclusion. I will say that the C5 suspension and handling was very good in its day and the C6 was improved with better settings and minor changes. Just comparing a C6 Z51 to other sports cars of the time including the 911 and E90 m3 of the same era and they were back and forth in track performance. I would say your Corvette opinion is quite off base with that assessment.
Interior, I’ll give you that to a certain extent. It’s not up to par with most other sports car but the C6 weighs in a bit shy of 3,200lbs. That’s a very nice number and we all know weight savings is a very important factor in sports car performance. Corvette also usually comes in at best bang for the buck sports car comparisons.
We should also remember that the OP is talking about a Z06 C6 which is a huge leap up from from the base C6 let alone the C5 in handling, power, everything.

I have owned 6-7 Corvettes. First was a C5 Coupe and the a FRC model because I liked the look better. They had the LS1. Then moved onto the C5Z with the LS6. I think I had 2 of them over the years. These cars are so easy to modify, and easy to tune if you like that kind of thing.

I moved to a C6Z, did the usual modifications..etc.

The thing is like one of the previous posters mentioned, all of my Corvettes had 500-600+ hp to the rear wheels. In a 3200lb car, it's more than enough. My wife wouldn't even ride with me in one of my builds as it was scary.

I currently have a C6 with the LS3. Exhaust, Intake, and a "baby cam" and the car puts down 460hp/460tq to the wheels. This is plenty. It's docile and could be used as a daily, but it has enough power to give you that "fix" when you need it.

Interiors have always been a sore spot with these cars until the C7 IMO. But there are plenty of aftermarket stuff out there to basically make it how you like it.

My next car will be a C7 Grand Sport. A little exhaust work and you have the sound and all the added power you could need unless you are at the track every week.

Pick what makes you happy. And I will say this.......I have literally beat the sh!t out of every one that I have owned. But I also maintained them. Only had an issue once, and that was me launching at the track with borrowed slicks and stock half-shafts.

Other than that, I was never scared to get in the car and drive it across the country.
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      03-09-2020, 10:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
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C6 interior needed work, yes, but you are being way too harsh on it.

No traction from a dig? Put a real tire on the car?!

My modded C6Z had traction from a dig on the street after I went R888. My 600+ WHP C5 had dig traction with Nitto NT01. My Hellcat had traction with Nitto DRs.

I remember putting R888's on my modded C6Z. Talk about a beast. I think I had to replace them twice before I got it out of my system.
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      03-10-2020, 01:06 AM   #17
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C6 interior needed work, yes, but you are being way too harsh on it.

No traction from a dig? Put a real tire on the car?!

My modded C6Z had traction from a dig on the street after I went R888. My 600+ WHP C5 had dig traction with Nitto NT01. My Hellcat had traction with Nitto DRs.
Saw enough carnage with Drag Radials on the otherwise OEM Hellcats I voted against that silliness. Even with some drag radials though, real world fun watching folks get their asses handed to them by a cute little Audi TT-RS etc...

I didn't worry about it too much though, was busy enjoying the silliness, the overkill, and the clown car nature of the Hellcat to get sucked into 1/4 mile hijinx.

What I want is a Hellcat powered AWD Station Wagon. 0-60 we could get behind.
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      03-10-2020, 08:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
Saw enough carnage with Drag Radials on the otherwise OEM Hellcats I voted against that silliness. Even with some drag radials though, real world fun watching folks get their asses handed to them by a cute little Audi TT-RS etc...

I didn't worry about it too much though, was busy enjoying the silliness, the overkill, and the clown car nature of the Hellcat to get sucked into 1/4 mile hijinx.

What I want is a Hellcat powered AWD Station Wagon. 0-60 we could get behind.
Well yeah, if all you care about is going fast in a straight line, most people aren't going to get to the speeds where bigger displacement will go faster and if your primary goal is to be #1 from a stoplight, turbo AWD is usually a pretty sure bet. At the higher (very illegal) speeds, you'll taper off faster as the driveline drag takes it's toll and acceleration will take a big hit (especially if you are trying to go to higher RPMs than max torque). In general, it's usually possible to get a bit more out of turbo engines, but this usually has the effect of exaggerating the turbo drop-off past around 5K, to get the earlier higher peak. Add a DCT to the mix for rapid shifts and you can often hang with cars that have much more HP that have issues putting it all down early. Get to a longer track though...or god forbid an actual road course, and the cars like the C7 Z06 will handily hand the RS-TT it's ass. It's all about what you want. To be sure, it can be a lot of fun to have a quick accelerating car (turbo AWD) that is more fun at slower speeds, rather than one that has to stretch it's legs at "go-directly-to-jail" speeds.
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      03-10-2020, 08:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
Sorry I'm rambling on and on AND ON.... I'd make excuses, but it's just me.

TLDR, From someone whose been living with a monster power beast, all that power is fun for screwing around, but ultimately does nothing but destroy brakes and tires, and insurance rates.
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I didn't quote your whole post but it is great. thank you for you sharing
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      03-10-2020, 09:08 AM   #20
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      03-10-2020, 10:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
Saw enough carnage with Drag Radials on the otherwise OEM Hellcats I voted against that silliness. Even with some drag radials though, real world fun watching folks get their asses handed to them by a cute little Audi TT-RS etc...

I didn't worry about it too much though, was busy enjoying the silliness, the overkill, and the clown car nature of the Hellcat to get sucked into 1/4 mile hijinx.

What I want is a Hellcat powered AWD Station Wagon. 0-60 we could get behind.
Wow, AWD beat high HP RWD from a dig? Shocker!!

Enough carnage? You are making a mountain out of a mole hill
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      03-10-2020, 10:11 AM   #22
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Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2017 Corvette GS
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C6 Z06 engine has a tendency to drop valves into the cylinder causing catastrophic failures. If you're going to get one, make sure the springs on the valves are/were replaced with aftermarket ones of the HIGHEST quality. I had a co-worker who dropped a valve in his Z06, GM replaced the first engine, then promptly within the same year dropped another valve in the replaced engine, and GM basically saying "the first one on us. Not so much on the 2nd" and he sold the car immediately after the $20K engine replacement.

Of course, this could have ALL been avoided if he replaced the valve springs ASAP after purchase.
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