Tracking your car for starters

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

OP, congratulation in registering to this event. You have done the best thing to allow to fully appreciate the performance potential of your car.

As FTS has posted, I would not worry about the car. Ensure you have sufficient thread on your tires and thick enough pads on the brakes (which should not be a problem, given your car is fairly new).

I would not worry too much about wear on the car. I did a 3 day event (14 30min sessions) in the fall and I am still running the same pads and tires. Further, as a beginner, you probably will not be pushing that much.

Just go out there, stay relaxed and hydrated, always listen to your instructor and above all, have fun .

Was that with stock pads and tires? If not, what kind did you get?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

Was that with stock pads and tires? If not, what kind did you get?

I picked up my car from the dealer post ED the eve of going to the track and drove it directly from the dealer to the track (hotel). I therefore did not get a chance to swap the pads. The stock pads are clearly (as expected) insufficient for intermediate and advanced drivers, but I was nonetheless quite impressed on how they performed (see my full track review). However, the stock pads should be plenty sufficient for a novice driver IMO.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I picked up my car from the dealer post ED the eve of going to the track and drove it directly from the dealer to the track (hotel). I therefore did not get a chance to swap the pads. The stock pads are clearly (as expected) insufficient for intermediate and advanced drivers, but I was nonetheless quite impressed on how they performed (see my full track review). However, the stock pads should be plenty sufficient for a novice driver IMO.

Yay, saving $$ as a novice.

Just curious, about how many hours on the track are needed to bump to intermediate?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Yay, saving $$ as a novice.

Just curious, about how many hours on the track are needed to bump to intermediate?

All clubs have different criteria. But most of the time, it is not a question of simple track time, but mostly of attitude and skill.

I have promoted students into Intermediate only after 2 track days because they were such avid learners and had natural talent. I also know of other students who are still in Novice after their third season. What run group you are in is not really important. What counts is to learn and have fun .

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

All clubs have different criteria. But most of the time, it is not a question of simple track time, but mostly of attitude an skill.

I have promoted students into Intermediate only after 2 track days because they were such avid learners and had natural talent. I also know of other students who are still in Novice after their third season. What run group you are in is not really important. What counts is to learn and have fun .

Interesting, I didn't really know how it worked. I have all intention of making my track time worth my money and learning as much as possible.

[dim635csi]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Usually, at the track, stock M3(4) always destroy their front tires first due to the basic understeer nature designed into the car.

If you are always having the tail out, I am pretty sure your instructor will pull you in the pits to have "a little chat"

As far as I understand BMW staggered street setup, smaller and less pressured front tires (32 vs 39 rear for E92 335i) are contributing to understeer. I usually inflate fronts to the same 39 psi during AutoX and track events.

What tire pressures would you recommend for M4 stock tires on the track ?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by dim635csi

As far as I understand BMW staggered street setup, smaller and less pressured front tires (32 vs 39 rear for E92 335i) are contributing to understeer. I usually inflate fronts to the same 39 psi during AutoX and track events.

What tire pressures would you recommend for M4 stock tires on the track ?

38~39psi hot at all 4 corners. Which means 28~32psi cold depending on temperature.

Do note that the understeering nature of the cars is in much more than just the tires .

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

DSC/MDM actually increase the stress on the front tires. DSC/MDM will frequently apply the front outside brake in anticipation of an oversteer. This puts an additional load on the outside front tire.

I do agree that the PSS are not really adequate for dry track use, especially when pushed a little.

which tires do you like? if i stick to PSS, will backing off a lap or couple be enough for them to cool down and be less greasy (i assume that's where they start to fall short?) i've done such things for brakes and actually noticed my Pilot Sport PS2s on my e46 m3 getting greasy but i only used them for a few sessions so hard to find out the best way to "live with" subpar tires.

i'm only planning on doing a couple track days this year so not sure i want to invest in a set of wheels/tires ... i consider myself an intermediate level driver (go/stop moderately hard, have been signed off for solo on a number of tracks, still PLENTY to learn...) since i have bounced around a lot between different cars/tracks/etc i haven't been able to analyze specific tires and how to manage their greasiness... any advice in case i don't get the nod for new wheels/tires from my wife?

thank you!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

which tires do you like? if i stick to PSS, will backing off a lap or couple be enough for them to cool down and be less greasy (i assume that's where they start to fall short?) i've done such things for brakes and actually noticed my Pilot Sport PS2s on my e46 m3 getting greasy but i only used them for a few sessions so hard to find out the best way to "live with" subpar tires.

i'm only planning on doing a couple track days this year so not sure i want to invest in a set of wheels/tires ... i consider myself an intermediate level driver (go/stop moderately hard, have been signed off for solo on a number of tracks, still PLENTY to learn...) since i have bounced around a lot between different cars/tracks/etc i haven't been able to analyze specific tires and how to manage their greasiness... any advice in case i don't get the nod for new wheels/tires from my wife?

thank you!

The issue with the PSS is not so much that they get greasy, but rather that they melt and chunk away when they get hot. I corded the outside edges of my PSS after only one 3 day even last fall; and I wasn't even pushing that hard (in the hope of not destroying my tires ).

The Nitto NT05 and Yoko AD08 are examples of street tires that better sustain the abuse of track driving.

I personally run a set of dedicated tires and wheels shod with Nitto NT01, but that implies the inconvenience of having to swap wheels for track days.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The issue with the PSS is not so much that they get greasy, but rather that they melt and chunk away when they get hot. I corded the outside edges of my PSS after only one 3 day even last fall; and I wasn't even pushing that hard (in the hope of not destroying my tires ).

The Nitto NT05 and Yoko AD08 are examples of street tires that better sustain the abuse of track driving.

I personally run a set of dedicated tires and wheels shod with Nitto NT01, but that implies the inconvenience of having to swap wheels for track days.

if new tires are basically a necessity (seems like they are unless I treat the PSS like "throw away" tires) then I can probably justify wheels. a) no more space in the garage, b) preserve the stock wheels from damage having to swap tires on/off all the time c) price of swapping tires adds up to a set of apex wheels pretty fast ....

now just to figure out what setup I need! thanks for the input!

[Doctor///M]

Great thread!

Super excited for my first event with the M3 this weekend!!!

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by Doctor///M

Great thread!

Super excited for my first event with the M3 this weekend!!!

You're going to have a blast. The F8x is able to make you forget you're in a sedan, they did a great job beefing this one up for track duty. First track day or first with the new car? If the former, then stay relaxed and concentrate on hitting the right lines and being smooth. If the latter, bring spare tires.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Doctor///M

Great thread!

Super excited for my first event with the M3 this weekend!!!

looking forward to you starting your own thread about your impressions! have fun!

[Doctor///M]

Originally Posted by Carl L

You're going to have a blast. The F8x is able to make you forget you're in a sedan, they did a great job beefing this one up for track duty. First track day or first with the new car? If the former, then stay relaxed and concentrate on hitting the right lines and being smooth. If the latter, bring spare tires.

Haha, indeed! Don't wanna think about tires now cuz I'll never go! Used to track my 335, but body roll was insane, not to mention the spongy brakes after a few laps...

[Doctor///M]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

looking forward to you starting your own thread about your impressions! have fun!

I'll keep that in mind!

[Ggeezer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

38~39psi hot at all 4 corners. Which means 28~32psi cold depending on temperature.

Do note that the understeering nature of the cars is in much more than just the tires .

Giving some CPR back to this thread, I'd like to understand why we should aim for 38-39 psi hot.

My local BMWCCA track info packet suggests to increase tire pressure by 3-4 psi over "normal street pressure". Normally, we set street pressures while the tires are cold, so if we were to inflate cold pressures by 3-4 psi, we'd be at ~39ish psi cold, which would put us over the 38-39 hot threshold.

So, coming back to my original question, what's the rationale for deliberately underinflating tires for the track and why does the info packet suggest to increase the tire pressure?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Potakis

Giving some CPR back to this thread, I'd like to understand why we should aim for 38-39 psi hot.

My local BMWCCA track info packet suggests to increase tire pressure by 3-4 psi over "normal street pressure". Normally, we set street pressures while the tires are cold, so if we were to inflate cold pressures by 3-4 psi, we'd be at ~39ish psi cold, which would put us over the 38-39 hot threshold.

So, coming back to my original question, what's the rationale for deliberately underinflating tires for the track and why does the info packet suggest to increase the tire pressure?

That is the recommendation for beginner drivers. Beginners usually are not able to sustain high enough speeds to build up significant temperatures (hence hot pressure) in the tires. Street tires have more tendency to roll over the edges, higher pressures will help prevent this. Further, higher pressures make the tires more responsive which is better for beginners. The drawback is that higher initial pressures prevents the tires to build-up heat and are therefore less grippy.

Just as a note, recommended pressure on the F8X is 32psi on all 4 corners. Which means the recommendation as per your packet would be 35~36psi cold at all 4 corners.

[Ggeezer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That is the recommendation for beginner drivers. Beginners usually are not able to sustain high enough speeds to build up significant temperatures (hence hot pressure) in the tires. Street tires have more tendency to roll over the edges, higher pressures will help prevent this. Further, higher pressures make the tires more responsive which is better for beginners. The drawback is that higher initial pressures prevents the tires to build-up heat and are therefore less grippy.

Just as a note, recommended pressure on the F8X is 32psi on all 4 corners. Which means the recommendation as per your packet would be 35~36psi cold at all 4 corners.

Thanks for that explanation! My F8x hasn't arrived yet so I assumed the tire pressures would have been the same as the E92 (35ish psi).

I guess I'll stick with BMW Quebec's recommendation of 35ish psi again and see how that goes, since I am still a novice (4th time at the track).

Will you be attending the event on June 6 & 7 at Tremblant?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Potakis

Will you be attending the event on June 6 & 7 at Tremblant?

You bet, I'll be instructing

I'll be easy to spot, Silverstone M4. Come and see me .

[Ggeezer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You bet, I'll be instructing

I'll be easy to spot, Silverstone M4. Come and see me .

Awesome! I'll definitely drop by!