M4 vs TRACTION

[Merli]

[Merli]

[Merli]

[Merli]

[Merli]

[brava09]

Originally Posted by gthal

You are on such a mission it is just sad. Your RS-5 is a great car... why you feel the need to justify that here to a bunch of M owners just shouts insecurity. What's funny is you really have nothing to be insecure about so I have no idea why you waste your time here (oh, wait, yes I do ).

I'm in a secret mission , was not even talking about the RS5, you brought it in discussion

Here, another one from the same review:

"The chassis also lacks body control when the road begins to crest and undulate. Rather than giving the impression of being locked into the road surface, the car instead goes light at the rear axle and gives the impression of trying to break away. Again, this can make the car a real handful to drive quickly. "

Link:

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m4/page/0/3

Please defend this this not even the AWD could fix. You are doomed to drive it slow

[Vectors2final]

From a single review... Wow, I guess that makes it law.


This car has a bit of a learning curve, and with the short amount of time they get these cars, I doubt they've got them figured out. I guess we've come to the days where having a car that's "Easy" to drive is the "better" car.

The funny thing is they still gave it 4.5 stars, despite the remarks. The driver even said that if he had more time in it, he'd get better, and that is was hard to just go out there for four or five laps to get a time. He also mentioned tires heating up, they won't see that type of heat on the street. This car has street tires, that I, for one, wouldn't take to the track. That's just me.

[dmk08]

I have no issues with the power in this car. Im not trying to drag launch or anything. Just roll into it a bit instead of just flooring it people!

Actually my biggest concern is how dangerous the nannies are. They are wayy too intrusive. Ive driven cars w/ this much torque w/o any TCS for most of my life. It's horrible even in MDM.

[ASAP]

If anyone has issues with the traction in the F80, then they simply don't know how to drive... a 135i on e85 with an open diff and 245 rears would be a good training seminar for you... although by the comments on this board, my guess is that half of the drivers here would have to pre pay their funeral costs.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I have no issues with the power in this car. Im not trying to drag launch or anything. Just roll into it a bit instead of just flooring it people!

Actually my biggest concern is how dangerous the nannies are. They are wayy too intrusive. Ive driven cars w/ this much torque w/o any TCS for most of my life. It's horrible even in MDM.

That I give it to you, this car looks like a pain to drive with the nannies on, one of the reason I feel it's lacking a bit in traction, cause if it was'nt, the nannies would just not interfere much or everyone would simply drive without them, like in my E92, and probably the RS5 also!

[ss134]

Originally Posted by brava09

I'm in a secret mission , was not even talking about the RS5, you brought it in discussion

Here, another one from the same review:

"The chassis also lacks body control when the road begins to crest and undulate. Rather than giving the impression of being locked into the road surface, the car instead goes light at the rear axle and gives the impression of trying to break away. Again, this can make the car a real handful to drive quickly. "

Link:

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m4/page/0/3

Please defend this this not even the AWD could fix. You are doomed to drive it slow

While I don't deny that this car needs careful consideration with throttle application I will defend it........The M3 posted a 1 min 21 second lap on Top Gear week- faster than all of the 'slow' cars listed below.......and crucially in this debate over 5 seconds faster than your RS5 managed........which, unfortunately , is a lifetime on a short track like this.

[ss134]

..

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by ss134

..

What is this suppose to show, I don't see either RS5 or M4 on that board!? :

[brava09]

Originally Posted by ss134

[/B]

While I don't deny that this car needs careful consideration with throttle application I will defend it........The M3 posted a 1 min 21 second lap on Top Gear week- faster than all of the 'slow' cars listed below.......and crucially in this debate over 5 seconds faster than your RS5 managed........which, unfortunately , is a lifetime on a short track like this.

Really, this thread is not about the RS5, don't know why everybody brings it into discussion.


This thread is about M4's traction, or lack of it. There is mounting evidence that it is seriously traction limited.

Obviously one can drive the M4 very gentle and have no traction issues. But as soon as one would like to drive it as an M car is supposed to be driven, either nannies are very intrusive or if you switch them off the car goes sideways on the wrong lane. Pretty much that's the summary of user's experiences on this forum.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by brava09

Really, this thread is not about the RS5, don't know why everybody brings it into discussion.


This thread is about M4's traction, or lack of it. There is mounting evidence that it is seriously traction limited.

Obviously one can drive the M4 very gentle and have no traction issues. But as soon as one would like to drive it as an M car is supposed to be driven, either nannies are very intrusive or if you switch them off the car goes sideways on the wrong lane. Pretty much that's the summary of user's experiences on this forum.

I've got an F80 so please don't tell me how it drives! If you modulate the throttle when required this car is blisteringly fast on any road. No car with poor traction and grip could post a 1.21 on that track - that was my point .

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by ss134

I've got an F80 so please don't tell me how it drives! If you modulate the throttle when required this car is blisteringly fast on any road. No car with poor traction and grip could post a 1.21 on that track - that was my point .

He's an uninformed troublemaker who's almost certainly never tracked. Only had chance to take the F80 out once since getting it in October but i'd wager it's the most track-ready production sedan ever made, I left MDM on for the first 3 laps and then with all the nannies off grip and times were off the chart with just a modicum of self control with the skinny pedal (just as you need when driving any fast car).

[socalsnake]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I have no issues with the power in this car. Im not trying to drag launch or anything. Just roll into it a bit instead of just flooring it people!

Actually my biggest concern is how dangerous the nannies are. They are wayy too intrusive. Ive driven cars w/ this much torque w/o any TCS for most of my life. It's horrible even in MDM.

x10000. Read my mind.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

What is this suppose to show, I don't see either RS5 or M4 on that board!? :

With regards to the M3/4- The list has not been updated yet but on the show Clarkson stated that this car was over 4 seconds faster around the track than the E90 M3 which posted a 1.25.3 therefore giving a time of around 1.21 hence why I posted a snapshot Of cars the M3 was as fast/faster than to dispel our good friends quote that this car cannot be driven quickly.

With regards to where the RS5 is on this board........,,it's so far down the list I haven't got the memory on my ipad to take that many snap shots

But it's time was 1.27.5 in moist conditions.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by dmk08

I have no issues with the power in this car. Im not trying to drag launch or anything. Just roll into it a bit instead of just flooring it people!

Actually my biggest concern is how dangerous the nannies are. They are wayy too intrusive. Ive driven cars w/ this much torque w/o any TCS for most of my life. It's horrible even in MDM.

Code your car to EURO MDM.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by ss134

With regards to the M3/4- The list has not been updated yet but on the show Clarkson stated that this car was over 4 seconds faster around the track than the E90 M3 which posted a 1.25.3 therefore giving a time of around 1.21 hence why I posted a snapshot Of cars the M3 was as fast/faster than to dispel our good friends quote that this car cannot be driven quickly.

With regards to where the RS5 is on this board........,,it's so far down the list I haven't got the memory on my ipad to take that many snap shots

But it's time was 1.27.5 in moist conditions.

I see, but I don't think anyone says this car can't be driven quickly, all we are saying is that its set-up(rwd/front engine/big turbo torque) is far from ideal to have maximum traction, which is what you should normaly want from a sport car.

Also, looking at track times from pro drivers does'nt tell much because these guys are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of every car, even the hardest to drive, which is not the case of the average Joe who buy the F8x. And comparing lap times between the RS5 and M4 does'nt say anything either, since lap times are'nt only about sheer grip, there's is much more variables in play.

Also the way some of you guys are seeing things, it's like there's is simply no car in existence that has a hard time putting the power down, because in the end, every car is drivable with a good modulation of the throttle, that's not the point. The point is that some cars can be driven harder then others without suffering from the same traction problems, which means you can go faster more easily, which is good in my mind!

Honestly, I don't understand where is the fun in having a car that you're afraid will bite if driven hard without TC. And all these complains about the nannies being too intrusive means one thing, the car loves to loose grip and most drivers keep TC on for that very reason! Just look in the M4 vs Curb thread, you'll see that many guys are saying no one should drive this car without TC, which corroborates what's been said in some review about it really not being confidence inspirering in some circumstances.

Overhall, it's not that the F8x does'nt have grip, it's simply that it loses it easily with too much throttle, and it's easy to give it too much throttle because the car makes so much torque in the bottom end! It does'nt mean it's a bad car, but there's a reason why before being in this fuel saving time, most track oriented RWD cars where N/A and why Ferrari and Merc are restricting boost in the first gears with their new turbo engine...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I see, but I don't think anyone says this car can't be driven quickly, all we are saying is that its set-up(rwd/front engine/big turbo torque) is far from ideal to have maximum traction, which is what you should normaly want from a sport car.

Also, looking at track times from pro drivers does'nt tell much because these guys are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of every car, even the hardest to drive, which is not the case of the average Joe who buy the F8x. And comparing lap times between the RS5 and M4 does'nt say anything either, since lap times are'nt only about sheer grip, there's is much more variables in play.

Also the way some of you guys are seeing things, it's like there's is simply no car in existence that has a hard time putting the power down, because in the end, every car is drivable with a good modulation of the throttle, that's not the point. The point is that some cars can be driven harder then others without suffering from the same traction problems, which means you can go faster more easily, which is good in my mind!

Honestly, I don't understand where is the fun in having a car that you're afraid will bite if driven hard without TC. And all these complains about the nannies being too intrusive means one thing, the car loves to loose grip and most drivers keep TC on for that very reason! Just look in the M4 vs Curb thread, you'll see that many guys are saying no one should drive this car without TC, which corroborates what's been said in some review about it really not being confidence inspirering in some circumstances.

Overhall, it's not that the F8x does'nt have grip, it's simply that it loses it easily with too much throttle, and it's easy to give it too much throttle because the car makes so much torque in the bottom end! It does'nt mean it's a bad car, but there's a reason why before being in this fuel saving time, most track oriented RWD cars where N/A and why Ferrari and Merc are restricting boost in the first gears with their new turbo engine...

Alex, if I was building a country / army, you would no doubt be my chief of proganda... The rhetoric is so passionate...

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3;17500050[B

]I see, but I don't think anyone says this car can't be driven quickly, all[/B] we are saying is that its set-up(rwd/front engine/big turbo torque) is far from ideal to have maximum traction, which is what you should normaly want from a sport car.

Also, looking at track times from pro drivers does'nt tell much because these guys are paid to be able to extract the maximum out of every car, even the hardest to drive, which is not the case of the average Joe who buy the F8x. And comparing lap times between the RS5 and M4 does'nt say anything either, since lap times are'nt only about sheer grip, there's is much more variables in play.

Also the way some of you guys are seeing things, it's like there's is simply no car in existence that has a hard time putting the power down, because in the end, every car is drivable with a good modulation of the throttle, that's not the point. The point is that some cars can be driven harder then others without suffering from the same traction problems, which means you can go faster more easily, which is good in my mind!

Honestly, I don't understand where is the fun in having a car that you're afraid will bite if driven hard without TC. And all these complains about the nannies being too intrusive means one thing, the car loves to loose grip and most drivers keep TC on for that very reason! Just look in the M4 vs Curb thread, you'll see that many guys are saying no one should drive this car without TC, which corroborates what's been said in some review about it really not being confidence inspirering in some circumstances.

Overhall, it's not that the F8x does'nt have grip, it's simply that it loses it easily with too much throttle, and it's easy to give it too much throttle because the car makes so much torque in the bottom end! It does'nt mean it's a bad car, but there's a reason why before being in this fuel saving time, most track oriented RWD cars where N/A and why Ferrari and Merc are restricting boost in the first gears with their new turbo engine...

I was replying to brava09 who did imply the car couldn't be driven quickly due to the issues with traction and various other ' issues' he'd scoured the internet reviews for to justify his opinion.