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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 61 31.28%
Trump Trump-umphant. 66 33.85%
Inclusive 14 7.18%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 57 29.23%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 8 4.10%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 195. You may not vote on this poll

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      09-25-2019, 02:05 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
Then you must not have an issue with what Trump said/did?

Youre stance is that this has nothing to do with Biden and getting his son out of trouble, despite it looking bad.

Is youre stance the same that while it looks bad, there isnt anything with Trump and trying to take down a competitor?
1) those are false equivalencies

2) it is not my "stance" - those are the facts of what happened - clarifying for those here who are only listening to trump and hannity shouting

3) i don't think trump should be impeached for it, it's his usual bs.
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      09-25-2019, 02:19 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoo View Post
1) those are false equivalencies

2) it is not my "stance" - those are the facts of what happened - clarifying for those here who are only listening to trump and hannity shouting

3) i don't think trump should be impeached for it, it's his usual bs.
1 - same situation, different person. One person's motives are being defended though, and one's arent.

2 - its not facts. There wasnt an investigation done into the matter to determine if Biden's conflict of interest was a factor or not. The entire world could have wanted Shokin gone, but it was Biden who spearheaded the campaign to get him fired, and withheld funds to force the ukranian government to do so. Biden himself claimed as much. Now, whether Shokin was actually investigating Burisma or just said he was as a way of trying to keep leverage, there are conflicting reports on that, but regardless of if there was an investigation ongoing into Burisma or not, the threat was there, and that can be viewed by some as reason that Biden stepped in.

3 - we can agree there.
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      09-25-2019, 02:28 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Says stare decisis? Nearly every single sitting president over the last several decades, plus hundreds of congressman and senators have been charged with campaign finance law violations by the FEC and not a single one of them has been impeached because of it.

Finally, on top of all of that, the FEC can't currently hold a quorum, hence why Illian Omar hasn't been fined for anything. As such, they don't really have any power to do anything right now either.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/30/75552...erence-on-hold
Well, given that impeachment is a wholly political process that has nothing to do with courts of law, I'm not sure stare decisis really applies.

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      09-25-2019, 02:33 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
1 - same situation, different person. One person's motives are being defended though, and one's arent.

2 - its not facts. There wasnt an investigation done into the matter to determine if Biden's conflict of interest was a factor or not. The entire world could have wanted Shokin gone, but it was Biden who spearheaded the campaign to get him fired, and withheld funds to force the ukranian government to do so. Biden himself claimed as much. Now, whether Shokin was actually investigating Burisma or just said he was as a way of trying to keep leverage, there are conflicting reports on that, but regardless of if there was an investigation ongoing into Burisma or not, the threat was there, and that can be viewed by some as reason that Biden stepped in.

3 - we can agree there.
let's talk about 2 since it directly relates to whether it is a false equivalency or not. again:

Quote:
And despite his boast last year, Biden seem to have played a very minor role in Shokin’s firing. With the Obama administration, the idea to remove him came from the US’s embassy in Ukraine, and the sentiment the prosecutor was hindering anti-corruption efforts was shared by the US’s partners and Ukrainian citizens. Too, removing Shokin has the potential to hurt Hunter Biden given the US had him replaced in order to ensure someone more fully committed to pursuing an anti-corruption agenda — including an investigation into the former Ukraine official Mykola Zlochevsky — was installed.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ower-complaint

Quote:
“Everyone in the Western community wanted Shokin sacked,” he said. “The whole G-7, the IMF, the EBRD, everybody was united that Shokin must go, and the spokesman for this was Joe Biden.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-...ry-11569189782

so biden was the mouthpiece to remove this guy. you make it sound like he made the push to do it. he did not.

is hunter's "work" in ukraine legit? i think it's the same politics bs that every politician is involved in. tons of politician's kids getting into law schools they don't deserve and jobs they don't deserve. it's sick, yea, and no politician has an incentive to get rid of it.
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      09-25-2019, 02:36 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I apologize if that's any way directed at me. Hard not to be tired of the same thing happening over and over and the same group being surprised when it fails to produce anything. Quit bandwagon jumping behind no evidence when it supports what you want to happen. Wait and see, so far the media keeps feeding you turd sandwiches and you dig right in.
Perhaps now you have a bit different perspective on what Dems dealt with during the 7 Benghazi investigations, then?

If so, then a little gained empathy is worth.... something. Probably not all of this madness, but I'm trying to be glass is half-full.
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      09-25-2019, 02:37 PM   #116
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Some things we know:
1. Trump will not be convicted in the Senate.
2. Dems are hurting themselves.
3. Biden is finished.

These are minor points. But can any lib on this board disagree with any of these bullets?
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      09-25-2019, 02:40 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoo View Post
let's talk about 2 since it directly relates to whether it is a false equivalency or not. again:



https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ower-complaint



https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-...ry-11569189782

so biden was the mouthpiece to remove this guy. you make it sound like he made the push to do it. he did not.

is hunter's "work" in ukraine legit? i think it's the same politics bs that every politician is involved in. tons of politician's kids getting into law schools they don't deserve and jobs they don't deserve. it's sick, yea, and no politician has an incentive to get rid of it.
Agreed with all of this. Biden wasn't "spearheading" anything. His actions and their impact vis a vis Burisma, and by extension, Hunter, would almost certainly have made things worse for them, not better. The point being Shokin was not - by all accounts - actually investigating corruption in Ukraine.
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      09-25-2019, 02:42 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Some things we know:
1. Trump will not be convicted in the Senate.
2. Dems are hurting themselves.
3. Biden is finished.

These are minor points. But can any lib on this board disagree with any of these bullets?

Well, #1 we "know", yes.

#2 - likely, in my estimation, but not at all a fact.

#3 - wishful thinking.
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      09-25-2019, 02:44 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Forget all of the politics for a second...

How does someone even side with Democrats nowadays? They're the most pathetic miscreants I've ever seen in my life. I'd feel ashamed to even be associated with such trash.

I still remember when they were doing this same shit with Bush.
Yeah, really sounds like you set politics aside for that one. Well done.
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      09-25-2019, 02:47 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post

#3 - wishful thinking.
Not at all, I believe.

In the last 48 hours, here are the current odds:

9/23/2019:
Biden: 41%
Warren: 27%
Sanders: 12%

9/25/2019:
Warren: 45%
Biden: 18%
Sanders: 9%

Now - what has changed in the last couple of days for Biden.....

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      09-25-2019, 02:50 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Yeah, really sounds like you set politics aside for that one. Well done.
I did... The Kavanaugh investigation, the Mueller investigation, the impeachment inquiry, etc...

I'm not discussing policies here, I'm just bringing to light how pathetic/desperate Democrats are, yet they still don't hold office.

It's ridiculous... but at the same time it's going to make Trump's reelection so much more enjoyable just like it did for Bush.
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      09-25-2019, 02:52 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Not at all, I believe.

In the last 48 hours, here are the current odds:

9/23/2019:
Biden: 41%
Warren: 27%
Sanders: 12%

9/25/2019:
Warren: 45%
Biden: 18%
Sanders: 9%

Now - what has changed in the last couple of days for Biden.....



Odds? Like from Vegas?
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      09-25-2019, 03:01 PM   #123
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More details on the referral to law enforcement:

The Director of National Intelligence and the Inspector General referred the matter to the Justice Department in late August.

!!!!The inspector general also referred the matter to the FBI for criminal investigation separately.
— Shimon Prokupecz (@ShimonPro) September 25, 2019


Oopsies. That's not a good thing for the Trump administration, right?
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      09-25-2019, 03:17 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Forget all of the politics for a second...

How does someone even side with Democrats nowadays? They're the most pathetic miscreants I've ever seen in my life. I'd feel ashamed to even be associated with such trash.

I still remember when they were doing this same shit with Bush.
OK.

So you don't associate with democrats? None of your family or friends are democrats?

I disagree with their policies, but they (the democrats) never did this to either Bush, and they haven't threatened national security and the rule of law like Trump has.
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      09-25-2019, 03:21 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
I did... The Kavanaugh investigation, the Mueller investigation, the impeachment inquiry, etc...

I'm not discussing policies here, I'm just bringing to light how pathetic/desperate Democrats are, yet they still don't hold office.

It's ridiculous... but at the same time it's going to make Trump's reelection so much more enjoyable just like it did for Bush.
They hold a majority in the House. I'm not sure what your point is.
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      09-25-2019, 03:22 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
Odds? Like from Vegas?
Betfair.com
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      09-25-2019, 03:35 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Betfair.com
You know that odds are simply a mechanism for evening out betting levels, they're not actually a prediction of how likely an event is, I assume.
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      09-25-2019, 03:40 PM   #128
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WOW!!

Watching FOX news right now on a little break. It started with Judge Nap stating that Trump DID commit a crime, even without a quid pro quo.

Then Shep Smith unloaded on an unnamed guest who had call Judge Nap a "fool", and asked how the unnamed host for that person had let that insult go unanswered. He finished by calling the whole episode "repugnant".

Go Shep!
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      09-25-2019, 03:42 PM   #129
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Back on the subject of impeachment (not that I think the Senate will ever convict):

Judge Andrew Napolitano told Fox News host Shepard Smith on Tuesday that the president effectively confessed to a crime when he admitted he asked Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter

https://www.foxnews.com/media/judge-...admitted-crime
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      09-25-2019, 03:44 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
OK.

So you don't associate with democrats? None of your family or friends are democrats?

I disagree with their policies, but they (the democrats) never did this to either Bush, and they haven't threatened national security and the rule of law like Trump has.
Ah... I forget context is not enough to stop Dems from manipulating things to fit narratives. I was referring to the democratic party, not people who vote democrat.

No, my family is from the USSR, you couldn't convince us to ever be Dems. We're all too familiar with their type of politics.

I'd argue that the majority of democratic policy is and has been a major threat to national security and civil liberties... directly and indirectly

I'm not a Republican zealot, I'm unhappy with a lot of things in the Republican party. I'm just disgusted by the Democratic party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
They hold a majority in the House. I'm not sure what your point is.
And Republicans/Conservatives hold the executive and judicial branch. I'm not sure what your point is either. I was referring to the POTUS.
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      09-25-2019, 03:48 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
...And Republicans/Conservatives hold the executive and judicial branch. I'm not sure what your point is either. I was referring to the POTUS.
I would assume it's that your claim of Dems "still not holding office" is demonstrably false. That's just a guess, though.
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      09-25-2019, 03:55 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_COLD View Post
I would assume it's that your claim of Dems "still not holding office" is demonstrably false. That's just a guess, though.
Sorry must have been the alt right fascist nazi gay basher climate change denier in me.
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