[BimmerJ550]

anyone can shed light on the difference between these two tunes ? Has anyone had a carbahn tune applied to their car ? if so did you get the matching factory warranty?

[dhodory]

Pretty sure it's based on the differences in the base engine being tuned, but maybe someone with a better understanding can chime in?

2016 N63B44O2 (N63TU2, N63R), 456hp/479ft-lbs
2016-2019 G12 750i
2017+ G30 M550i
Mechanical revisions are minor and mostly aimed at lowering weight, improving cooling, and reducing complexity. Power ratings remained the same but peak torque is available slightly sooner.

- Twin-Scroll turbochargers added to the non-M N63 engine. This required other changes to the exhaust and cylinder head.
- Redesigned pistons with more oil drain reliefs, to allow more oil to drain back into the pan rather than be pulled up into the combustion chamber. This was one of the few hardware changes made to reduce oil consumption.
- Relocated engine oil cooler from the passenger wheel well to underneath the turbos in the hot-vee. The new heat exchanger piggybacks off the main cooling radiator and water pump. This not only simplified the cooling system but also deleted a radiator that did not function at low driving speeds anyway.
- A new 'half-shell" intake system with part of each intake manifold cast into the cylinder head. This reduced the number of fittings and seams that could cause pressure loss and made the overall packaging smaller, such as "using the N63TU2 engine for other vehicle projects" (BMW quote).

2018 N63B44M3 (N63TU3), 456hp/479ft-lbs
2018 N63B44T3 (N63TU3), 523hp/553ft-lbs
"M3": 2018+ G05 X5 50i
"M3": 2018+ G07 X7 50i
"T3": 2020+ G30 M550i
"T3": 2019+ G12 750
"T3": 2018+ G15 M850i
"T3": X5 M50i: 2020+ G05
"M" in this case refers to "medium output" for the engine. The "M3" is an unfortunate coincidence with the 3-series model. The "T" is the "top" output class. There is quite a few component differences between the two, including visually, which will make ordering parts a little confusing. Much of the M3 parts are carried over from the O2 design while the T3 has a broad mix of parts from various engines. Power-wise a simple plug-in module will bridge the gap.

- The intercoolers now have a crossover tube between them (same as on F90 M5) that helps balance the pressure between both cylinder banks. Balancing the pressure avoids peaks and can provide a more stable air mass to set engine tuning.
- An HFM intake sensor is no longer used on either. Air mass is now calculated instead of measured via a series of sensors and tables (primarily Valvetronic position, intake pressure, and intake temperature) and further corrected by the oxygen sensors.
- The ignition coils on the N63M3 are the pencil type carried over from the N63O2. The T3 version gets a newer design similar to the latest B-series modular engines and ignition voltage is 50% higher. The T3 also gets different spark plugs.
- The N63M3 version shares its turbo design with the N63O2 but now includes an overboost feature that allows an extra 34 horsepower for brief periods and only in Launch Mode.
- The T3 turbos are different with diverter valves added back in (they were deleted with the introduction of Valvetronic on N63B44O1).

Info taken from: https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...ne-Variations/

[BimmerJ550]

Originally Posted by dhodory

Pretty sure it's based on the differences in the base engine being tuned, but maybe someone with a better understanding can chime in?

2016 N63B44O2 (N63TU2, N63R), 456hp/479ft-lbs
2016-2019 G12 750i
2017+ G30 M550i
Mechanical revisions are minor and mostly aimed at lowering weight, improving cooling, and reducing complexity. Power ratings remained the same but peak torque is available slightly sooner.

- Twin-Scroll turbochargers added to the non-M N63 engine. This required other changes to the exhaust and cylinder head.
- Redesigned pistons with more oil drain reliefs, to allow more oil to drain back into the pan rather than be pulled up into the combustion chamber. This was one of the few hardware changes made to reduce oil consumption.
- Relocated engine oil cooler from the passenger wheel well to underneath the turbos in the hot-vee. The new heat exchanger piggybacks off the main cooling radiator and water pump. This not only simplified the cooling system but also deleted a radiator that did not function at low driving speeds anyway.
- A new 'half-shell" intake system with part of each intake manifold cast into the cylinder head. This reduced the number of fittings and seams that could cause pressure loss and made the overall packaging smaller, such as "using the N63TU2 engine for other vehicle projects" (BMW quote).

2018 N63B44M3 (N63TU3), 456hp/479ft-lbs
2018 N63B44T3 (N63TU3), 523hp/553ft-lbs
"M3": 2018+ G05 X5 50i
"M3": 2018+ G07 X7 50i
"T3": 2020+ G30 M550i
"T3": 2019+ G12 750
"T3": 2018+ G15 M850i
"T3": X5 M50i: 2020+ G05
"M" in this case refers to "medium output" for the engine. The "M3" is an unfortunate coincidence with the 3-series model. The "T" is the "top" output class. There is quite a few component differences between the two, including visually, which will make ordering parts a little confusing. Much of the M3 parts are carried over from the O2 design while the T3 has a broad mix of parts from various engines. Power-wise a simple plug-in module will bridge the gap.

- The intercoolers now have a crossover tube between them (same as on F90 M5) that helps balance the pressure between both cylinder banks. Balancing the pressure avoids peaks and can provide a more stable air mass to set engine tuning.
- An HFM intake sensor is no longer used on either. Air mass is now calculated instead of measured via a series of sensors and tables (primarily Valvetronic position, intake pressure, and intake temperature) and further corrected by the oxygen sensors.
- The ignition coils on the N63M3 are the pencil type carried over from the N63O2. The T3 version gets a newer design similar to the latest B-series modular engines and ignition voltage is 50% higher. The T3 also gets different spark plugs.
- The N63M3 version shares its turbo design with the N63O2 but now includes an overboost feature that allows an extra 34 horsepower for brief periods and only in Launch Mode.
- The T3 turbos are different with diverter valves added back in (they were deleted with the introduction of Valvetronic on N63B44O1).

Info taken from: https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...ne-Variations/

ok so I looked up the vin and production date is 2017 but is a 2018 and has N63R engine. Is it possible to get the n63B engine tune for this one or get the get other one ?

[dhodory]

Based on the mechanical differences between the two engine types, my guess would be "no" (I'm guessing two separate and distinct tunes exist for a *reason*, not just for fun).

But someone from Carbahn or someone more knowledgeable than me (which isn't hard to do) would need to chime in.

Good luck. Once you find out, report back to this thread to help others.

[BimmerJ550]

Originally Posted by dhodory

Based on the mechanical differences between the two engine types, my guess would be "no" (I'm guessing two separate and distinct tunes exist for a *reason*, not just for fun).

But someone from Carbahn or someone more knowledgeable than me (which isn't hard to do) would need to chime in.

Good luck. Once you find out, report back to this thread to help others.

I'll contact them now on Instagram if they respond

[Ardalan11b]

So I don't have the tune yet but I will be getting it within the month. I can't speak highly enough about my experience calling carbahn and speaking to Chris. He spent like 30min answering every question I had.

[BimmerJ550]

Originally Posted by dhodory

Based on the mechanical differences between the two engine types, my guess would be "no" (I'm guessing two separate and distinct tunes exist for a *reason*, not just for fun).

But someone from Carbahn or someone more knowledgeable than me (which isn't hard to do) would need to chime in.

Good luck. Once you find out, report back to this thread to help others.

here's what I got from Chris

[BimmerJ550]

Originally Posted by Ardalan11b

So I don't have the tune yet but I will be getting it within the month. I can't speak highly enough about my experience calling carbahn and speaking to Chris. He spent like 30min answering every question I had.

I agree

[AmooManiak]

I would run far away. My local BMW dealer took them off the "Dealer" list. Had a horrible experience with Carbahn and the BMW dealer was not happy about their practices. Not only did they lie to me, but they lied to the dealer as well.

I had to "return" my tune even though they promised it would work and wasted about 2 weeks of mine and the dealership's time. During the whole time they were troubleshooting, the dealer gave me a free loaner since Carbahn confirmed that it only needed an OBD2 flash - which later turned out to be false. To add insult to injury, they did not process a full refund and I had to pay for return shipping even though it was their mistake.

BM3 gave me the answers I needed while Chris & Carbahn did not know the product they were selling.

Just to add, post 2020 July builds are not tunable. That means that if you do get their "warranty", it will only be valid for a couple of years since your car has to be a little older. If you were to go with Carbahn, the only time their extended "warranty" would make sense is if you got it right after purchasing new - which is not available anyway currently.

[Ardalan11b]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I would run far away. My local BMW dealer took them off the "Dealer" list. Had a horrible experience with Carbahn and the BMW dealer was not happy about their practices. Not only did they lie to me, but they lied to the dealer as well.

I had to "return" my tune even though they promised it would work and wasted about 2 weeks of mine and the dealership's time. During the whole time they were troubleshooting, the dealer gave me a free loaner since Carbahn confirmed that it only needed an OBD2 flash - which later turned out to be false. To add insult to injury, they did not process a full refund and I had to pay for return shipping even though it was their mistake.

BM3 gave me the answers I needed while Chris & Carbahn did not know the product they were selling.

Just to add, post 2020 July builds are not tunable. That means that if you do get their "warranty", it will only be valid for a couple of years since your car has to be a little older. If you were to go with Carbahn, the only time their extended "warranty" would make sense is if you got it right after purchasing new - which is not available anyway currently.

Can you elaborate about what exactly they lied about? was it just the OBD vs Bench tune? What car was this on?

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by Ardalan11b

Can you elaborate about what exactly they lied about? was it just the OBD vs Bench tune? What car was this on?

I will copy paste my post from the M2C forums.

From personal experience, I would take what Carbahn says with a grain of salt. All marketing tactics. They don't seem to understand their own products with older DMEs, let alone what they would need to unlock the newest ones.

-I was 100% set to get my car tuned with Carbahn.
-I checked with them 3 times to ensure that I can use their remote flashing tool before placing an order and using my VIN number they confirmed that it would work. 3 times!
-It wasn't a question of "we may run into issues", but they were confident that it works.
-Fast forward, and the remote flashing tool didn't work after they had to "troubleshoot" with some company in Italy.
-They said, "don't worry, take it to the BMW dealer (Carbahn Partner) and they can unlock it via ODB2 port. It will take them 1-1.5 hours at the very most."
-I took it to the dealer, they were nice enough to even give me a rental. One day passed, nothing. Next day came and the dealer said "we can't unlock this via OBD2, it will cost $500 to bench unlock."

I called Carbahn and said that I don't mind keeping the product (even without ability to flash myself) if you want to cover the difference between what they promised me (charge of remote flashing tool, which I would return) and what BMW says it needs to happen for this to work. They refused.

Needless to say the dealer was not happy. Carbahn wasted their time. They had to give out a rental for 2 days based on Carbahn's claims, which were wrong. Rental could have been used for people who actually needed service done. Thankfully BMW did not charge me anything for wasting their time.

I viewed it not only as a bait and switch tactic, but they are making the customer and BMW do the troubleshooting that they should be doing - not to mention the cost of time for everyone invovled (including the customer.) Not once did they say "sorry for wasting your time and continually giving you wrong information, driving to dealership at 7 AM for a 40 minute round trip during a pandemic, driving back...etc.)" They are basically viewing cases like this as "we can't predict" when other companies have clearly figured out a way how to do this.

I would expect something like this from a good company that I would ever consider purchasing a product from:

Either:

1. Have a program available that can perform a check whether their product works before purchase.
2. Have the option for the customer to go to the dealer and confirm BEFORE purchasing and wasting many peoples' time.

Instead, what I got was:

1. "Oh it asbsolutely works!"
2. "Sorry, method 1 didn't work (even though they were confident it would), but we have method 2 which absolutely works."
3. "Sorry, we can't predict these issues."
4. "To get it to work, you have to pay more than 2x of what the remote flashing tool costs (which we were confident would work) and you won't even have the option to go to stock yourself without paying the dealer again."

Carbahn basically said that they can't predict the software on the car, yet were very confident to confirm that it works when payment was made just using my VIN number. Some sort of disclaimer would be very useful here because had it been there, I would have never purchased their remote flashing tool in first place.

BM3 on the other hand can confirm beforehand if their license will work. Strange how that works. If I ever get my car tuned eventually, I know who I'll be going with.

[Big_tugg]

Originally Posted by BimmerJ550

anyone can shed light on the difference between these two tunes ? Has anyone had a carbahn tune applied to their car ? if so did you get the matching factory warranty?

It all depends on your production date on dealing with engine code. N63R is a midrange tq monster.

I have an 2018 and had about 12k miles left on factory warranty so I elected not to do matching warranty.

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I will copy paste my post from the M2C forums.

I agree! My experience was different from yours. I looked up an local authorized dealer and stopped by to get an warm-n-fuzzy. They were extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Before committing, checked to see if they were a able to download stock file. They sent stock file in and it went from there (it was a two week at that time because they were just finalizing N63R tune).

- Loaded tune
- changed oil
- changed spark plugs

[Joe-BMW33]

I have a real problem with Cabahn charging double for the same product just to stand by it. You either support it and warranty it, or you don't. doesn't give the buyer a lot of confidence having to pay them $1,250 for them to warranty it.

[Southsidepaulie]

I have the tune it woke the car up I also added cold air intakes. Next up Remus cat back exhaust.

[carbahn_m550i]

I wouldn't recommend getting the matching warranty as I consider it waste of money. Carbahn tune is already an engine safe tuning that won't damage your car anyhow. Other tuning companies are pushing limits when you tune your car with their flash so they have more chances to reduce your reliability overtime. I would also go to a third party authorized dealer, that recommended by Carbahn on their website. I found it more professional and knowledgeable comparing to BMW dealership service.