[mylife98]

668M standard rims on 2022 M550i.

Heading to a track day next month, first time with this car. 2 day BMW CCA HPDE, driving A/B class, so car will get properly spanked.

Few things I'd appreciate the groups advise and input on.

Brakes: I already know the standard brakes won't be up to it from road driving. I've run Hawk HP+ pads on my RS5 and M2 several times for track days, with great success (although they eat the rotors). Not even sure these are available for our cars but… what experience do people have on upgraded pads for track use? Any recommendations?

Tires: Pirelli Run Flats gota-go. MPS4S? I've run the M Super Sports on my RS5 but car was too heavy and rubber too soft: overheated and chewed through a new set in just a single track day. Found great performance in the Toyo Proxes T1 Sport: handled the heavy RS5 car well with superb grip and progressive slip. Again, what experiences do you all have and any recommendations?

[G30 B58]

Does the Hankook R-S4 come in your sizes?

[admranger]

The new Conti ultra high perf tires are getting great reviews. Michelins are nice but the sidewall is soft so adjust pressures accordingly. The Hankook suggestion above is a good tire.

As for brake pads, get real track pads. This is a heavy pig and you need high temp compatibility. I haven’t looked into who has track pads that fit our cars so my suggestions are from my 20+ years of tracking (and 10 years of racing). I like PFC 08’s. You don’t need a super aggressive pad for HPDE. Endurance pads are a great solution. If you want Hawk, get the dtc track pads. Pagid yellows are nice but super spendy. Lots of folks like the Cobalt track pads.

Change fluid to Castrol SRF and you’ll have no issues and you won’t need to bleed them due to track use.

[G30 B58]

Originally Posted by admranger

The new Conti ultra high perf tires are getting great reviews. Michelins are nice but the sidewall is soft so adjust pressures accordingly. The Hankook suggestion above is a good tire.

As for brake pads, get real track pads. This is a heavy pig and you need high temp compatibility. I haven’t looked into who has track pads that fit our cars so my suggestions are from my 20+ years of tracking (and 10 years of racing). I like PFC 08’s. You don’t need a super aggressive pad for HPDE. Endurance pads are a great solution. If you want Hawk, get the dtc track pads. Pagid yellows are nice but super spendy. Lots of folks like the Cobalt track pads.

Change fluid to Castrol SRF and you’ll have no issues and you won’t need to bleed them due to track use.

I was using free (contingency) Hawk pads but the DTCs were so damn caustic and nearly ruined my Volk wheels Never again, even if they're "free".

[PetieD 7]

Originally Posted by admranger

The new Conti ultra high perf tires are getting great reviews. Michelins are nice but the sidewall is soft so adjust pressures accordingly. The Hankook suggestion above is a good tire.

As for brake pads, get real track pads. This is a heavy pig and you need high temp compatibility. I haven't looked into who has track pads that fit our cars so my suggestions are from my 20+ years of tracking (and 10 years of racing). I like PFC 08's. You don't need a super aggressive pad for HPDE. Endurance pads are a great solution. If you want Hawk, get the dtc track pads. Pagid yellows are nice but super spendy. Lots of folks like the Cobalt track pads.

Change fluid to Castrol SRF and you'll have no issues and you won't need to bleed them due to track use.

What is your opinion(s) with EBC brake pads…in particular to Yellowstuff and/or Redstuff pads.

[gsrbri]

A couple of questions

1) are you going to track the car only once in a while? That is, a couple of times/year?

2) would you consider a second set of wheels/tires in 19in?

The car is quite heavy for track days - and will easily overheat brakes/tires. You maybe can get by with a Hawk HPS pad or similar street pad, but I'd suggest Pagid RS 29 or another endurance race pad that can stand up to the heat. Maybe the Hawk Blue 9012 pads. The operating temperatures you'll see will probably wipe-out a street/track pad. Are you gonna swap pads at the track? Get some tie-wraps to tie the pad sensor wires out of the way. They'll melt or break if you don't. (Track pads won't have slots for the sensors)

On the tires front, suggest Michelin PSC2 tires but you'll need to go to M5 sizes to get these tires. If you want full R compound, Nitto NT01 is a great tire but only if a bone-dry day

Don't forget racing brake fluid, such as Motul RBF600

Good luck and have fun.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by PetieD 7

What is your opinion(s) with EBC brake pads…in particular to Yellowstuff and/or Redstuff pads.

The EBC pads are ones I have no experience with. I have run Pagid, PFC, Cobalt, and Hawk.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by gsrbri

but I'd suggest Pagid RS 29 or another endurance race pad that can stand up to the heat.

Yes - great pad though I hate bedding in pads so I prefer PFC if they make them for our brakes.

Originally Posted by gsrbri

Maybe the Hawk Blue 9012 pads.

Hell no! This is an ancient pad technology that is extremely corrosive to wheels if the slightest moisture gets on the dust. BTDT in the 1990’s. Just don’t.

Originally Posted by gsrbri

The operating temperatures you'll see will probably wipe-out a street/track pad. Are you gonna swap pads at the track? Get some tie-wraps to tie the pad sensor wires out of the way. They'll melt or break if you don't. (Track pads won't have slots for the sensors)

Yes! Excellent recommendations.

Originally Posted by gsrbri

Don't forget racing brake fluid, such as Motul RBF600

That fluid is ok. Better than stock. Doesn’t recover after overheating though and that’s a distinct possibility in our behemoths.

Endless or Castrol SRF only please. Pay more for the good stuff.

[mylife98]

Great advice all, thank you.

Going to track it once, maybe twice a year.

Brake fluid - hadn't even considered it. Good shout!

From my best google research and measuring tape, I think I have the 3M2 M Sport Brakes, which on a 2022 is the same as the M Performance, so I think my rotors are 395x36 and 370x24. Trying to fit the right size of pad. Seem to get conflicting reports: some say the pads are all the same size on the BMW callipers/rotors…?

[540iSUP]

Originally Posted by mylife98

Great advice all, thank you.

Going to track it once, maybe twice a year.

Brake fluid - hadn't even considered it. Good shout!

From my best google research and measuring tape, I think I have the 3M2 M Sport Brakes, which on a 2022 is the same as the M Performance, so I think my rotors are 395x36 and 370x24. Trying to fit the right size of pad. Seem to get conflicting reports: some say the pads are all the same size on the BMW callipers/rotors…?

The pads are the same size. I had the 345 rear rotors and swapped to 370mm along with new brake carriers. Same caliper/pad, just a bigger carrier and rotor.

[540iSUP]

Originally Posted by PetieD 7

What is your opinion(s) with EBC brake pads…in particular to Yellowstuff and/or Redstuff pads.

I changed from OEM to EBC redstuff for street duty and I like them. They feel nice and don't throw as much dust as OEM. I'm not sure how they'll hold up on the track.

[mylife98]

Well, here's the update after a few weeks of prep as I head off for first track day in Heidi (M550i) this weekend.

First, the wins:

Tires: able to source the BMW star MPS4S for the rear and non-BMWstar MPS4S for the front. Ride much better than the Pirelli run flats and I haven't pushed them in the corners yet… but the rear used to playfully step out leaving the drive way…. Not with the MPS4Ss….

Brake fluid and lines: stainless steel lines and Pristine super dot 4 installed. Pedal now feel solid vs spongy at the far end.

Oil change with BMW 0w-30: check.

Second, the challenge: brakes, specifically I think the pads.

Data I've figured out:
- 3M2 M Sport Brake Red - come with 374x36 front and 370x24 rear rotors
- 4 pot calliper
- OEM BMW pad numbers are Front pads 34116889585 $400, Rear pads 34216890353 $169

These pads are huge. Especially height wise: EBC lists them as 121.9mm x 117.6mm, ATE as 124.7mm x 117.4mm. Makes me wonder if the surface area of the 374x36 rotor is extra large to manage the 117mm lateral exposure to the pad?

The challenge: vary few pads available. Spoke with hawk… their HB820 would do the rears (HPS5.0 and DTC30), but they have nothing for the front. Pagid , nothing on website. EBC seems the only offering: red stuff, yellow stuff, and blue NDX.

Blue ndx ordered and installed.

But a let down I've only done ~50 miles of bedding in with them…. With several of the EBS fade 1/2/3 bedding in routines…. But the pads just don't bite. Not like the HP+ pads used to bite - that was like metal on metal and that pad was going to grab the rotor and take chunks out of it if necessary - the tire traction would be the weak link in the equation. These EBS blue feel like a soft pad that no amount of increasing pressure can get them to bite, the tires aren't strained.

On bedding in runs, rotors are hitting 450°F (ir temp thermometer), but pads still don't seem to bed in or bite, but the heat generation would seem to indicate it's not a brake system problem.

Maybe I just need more bedding in?

Anybody running the same pad with experience of its capability?

[Superjackson]

G-LOC will make any compound in the size you want, I ran their R10 on the front of my m550i for a couple track days, was very solid under heat and barely any wear.

[gsrbri]

Only 450F? You will see 700-900 on-track, is my guess. EBC thermal range attached

[mylife98]

The final combo was EBC Blue NDX, super dot 4 fluid, on stainless steel lines. M Sport brake 3M2 upgrade.

~800 miles of bed in time.

Result:
- initial and standard running on the road is soft at best. Pads don't bite. Even with the hardest stamp, to the bottom of the pedal, on a road warmed up setup, cannot get the tires to chirp or the ABS in kick in
- on track, 2 x 20min sessions, no confidence and a lack luster performance from brakes
- session 3, hammer the brakes, hitting them full on on every straight and turn, just to see what would perform vs give. Would fluid boil before the pads faded? At >1000°F, the pads finally started to bite, a little like HP+ pads do from start up. Tires chirped and I felt the abs for the first time ever in the car
- session 4, hit brakes hard for 3 laps to build temp, and they started performing again
- photos are after session 4, after a full no brakes cool down lap and paddock crawling and parking. >300°F on the calliper and >500°F on the rotor
- melted the pad wear sensor

Question: anyone else running the 3M2 M Sport brakes? Even from factory, I struggled (ever?) to get the brakes to chirp the tires or get the ABS to engage? Can someone with a factory setup test this for me?

My latest theory: these brakes are new for BMW. Spoken with Hawk, Pagid, and PFC. None do a D1868 pad yet. The pad is huge (~127mm x ~117mm, vs M5 pad on larger 395 rotors for comparison is a 116mm x 74mm). The brake rotor surface area on the 374 rotor with the huge 117mm tall pad, is a massive surface area…. And the brake callipers and system simply cannot exert enough force to lock a pad to the rotor with enough pressure to overcome the tire grip and trigger the ABS.

Hence my question to the group: can anyone with the factory setup get the abs to kick in?

Figure my next option is a higher friction pad than takes less pressure to grip the rotor. Have 3 on the way to test, which will make for 5 pads in total:
- oem fit - would not grip enough to engage ABS on the road, and overheated and faded on fast road driving (I couldn't see a part number on removal but BMW Sandia CO firmed the replacement pad if I got it from them is 34116889585)
- EBC Blue NDX - experience per above, weak on the road, won't trigger abs, can handle hot hot track temps (DP52304NDX)
- EBC Red ordered (DP32304C)
- BMW OEM 'M Sport' pad ordered (34106888459)
- Brembo pad ordered (P06106)

These are all the pads I could find that fit. Testing results to follow.

If I can't find a high friction pad that works…. Looks like a big brake kit full replace….

[edited to add part numbers for pads for ease of reference]

[mylife98]

OEM BMW M sport pads have arrived.

Photo for reference…. Have you ever seen a pad this huge?! Me neither.

[Scotty B]

I use OEM m sport pads for mountain curves. Haven't had any real issues, but also only pushing car 80-90%. Only smelled brakes one time and that was when I only had 4mm left on front. Only issue is I'm burning through pads and rotors every 15-20k miles.

[mylife98]

All pads have arrived.

On inspection the biggest difference is the BMW and Brembo pads have a significantly smaller surface contact area than the EBC Brakes pads: same size back plate but the pads then curve in to reduce the contact patch. Presumably this'll mean more pressure can be exerted on the smaller surface area?

Here are photos of them all.

I'm going to start with the BMW M Sport pad.

[HerkHealer]

Originally Posted by mylife98

668M standard rims on 2022 M550i.

Heading to a track day next month, first time with this car. 2 day BMW CCA HPDE, driving A/B class, so car will get properly spanked.

Few things I'd appreciate the groups advise and input on.

Brakes: I already know the standard brakes won't be up to it from road driving. I've run Hawk HP+ pads on my RS5 and M2 several times for track days, with great success (although they eat the rotors). Not even sure these are available for our cars but… what experience do people have on upgraded pads for track use? Any recommendations?

Tires: Pirelli Run Flats gota-go. MPS4S? I've run the M Super Sports on my RS5 but car was too heavy and rubber too soft: overheated and chewed through a new set in just a single track day. Found great performance in the Toyo Proxes T1 Sport: handled the heavy RS5 car well with superb grip and progressive slip. Again, what experiences do you all have and any recommendations?

Have any vids of your M550 on the track ?

[mylife98]

Originally Posted by HerkHealer

Have any vids of your M550 on the track ?

I don't no.

[mylife98]

Removed the EBC Blue pads…. Heat cracked right the way through.

[Boosted_8]

If you were to run this car on the circuit more than once or twice it would benefit massively from a geometry setup. There is no camber on the front and a lot of toe all round from the factory. This will result in the front outer edges being wiped out and too much braking for avoidance of understeer.