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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions BMW tries to revive lagging 3 Series sales with new 2019 design that's more BMW-like

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      12-14-2018, 06:40 PM   #1
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BMW tries to revive lagging 3 Series sales with new 2019 design that's more BMW-like

BMW tries to revive lagging 3 Series sales with new 2019 design that's more, well, BMW-like

Paul A. Eisenstein | @DetroitBureau
Published 10 Hours Ago Updated 3 Hours Ago
CNBC.com

BMW is rolling out a new design of its famed 3 Series sedan for 2019, hoping to revive lagging sales.

The outgoing model, introduced in 2011, took a number of hits for losing its traditionally unique mix of performance, handling and luxury.

Initial reviews of the 2019 model have been overwhelmingly positive, with one auto magazine declaring the 2019 sedan "a Proper 3 Series Again."

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/12/14/...19-design.html
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      12-14-2018, 06:49 PM   #2
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      12-15-2018, 09:41 AM   #3
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I've owned a BMW 3-series for 30+ years (4 cars in all including the Z3 and Z4, which are based on the 3-series chassis - three of that I still have). I've spent several thousands of miles behind the wheel 3 different E21's (the first BMW I ever drove circa 1978). A proper 3-series has a manual transmission; the G20 doesn't offer a manual trans in the US.

BMW has become nothing more than a purveyor of poser sports sedans (M-brand excluded) and over-powered gaudy SUVs, all built upon a sports sedan reputation earned in the 1970's and strengthened in the 1980's and somewhat maintained during the 1990's, until Lexus came upon the automotive marketplace. It then chased Lexus for the luxury crown, when Lexus was actually targeting Mercedes Benz. While it's perfectly fine for BMW to chase the luxury and SUV trends, it should still offer a well-balanced, non-M brand 3 series with a manual transmission.
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      12-15-2018, 10:04 AM   #4
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BMW has become nothing more than a purveyor of poser sports sedans (M-brand excluded) and over-powered gaudy SUVs, all built upon a sports sedan reputation earned in the 1970's and strengthened in the 1980's and somewhat maintained during the 1990's...
And BMW had the nerve to fit diesel engines into their sedans! Abomination! Oh, and they added xDrive, sacrilege!

I wonder where BMW would be today without some of the M-sport marketing, SUVs and diesel power. I suggest niche market at best, out of business at worst.
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      12-15-2018, 10:19 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
And BMW had the nerve to fit diesel engines into their sedans! Abomination! Oh, and they added xDrive, sacrilege!

I wonder where BMW would be today without some of the M-sport marketing, SUVs and diesel power. I suggest niche market at best, out of business at worst.
They seemed to do pretty well as a manufacturer of sports sedans. If you wanted a BMW SUV, you bought a Touring, and OMG it was available with a manual transmission! The E30 had all-wheel-drive (available with a manual transmission), which was dropped from the E36 even though the E36 really wasn't a major chassis change from the E30.

Not sure about the diesel comment
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      12-15-2018, 10:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I've owned a BMW 3-series for 30+ years (4 cars in all including the Z3 and Z4, which are based on the 3-series chassis - three of that I still have). I've spent several thousands of miles behind the wheel 3 different E21's (the first BMW I ever drove circa 1978). A proper 3-series has a manual transmission; the G20 doesn't offer a manual trans in the US.

BMW has become nothing more than a purveyor of poser sports sedans (M-brand excluded) and over-powered gaudy SUVs, all built upon a sports sedan reputation earned in the 1970's and strengthened in the 1980's and somewhat maintained during the 1990's, until Lexus came upon the automotive marketplace. It then chased Lexus for the luxury crown, when Lexus was actually targeting Mercedes Benz. While it's perfectly fine for BMW to chase the luxury and SUV trends, it should still offer a well-balanced, non-M brand 3 series with a manual transmission.
I understand where you're coming from but the bigger issue for me is steering. I don't care that the F30 had a manual, it sucked balls to drive. There was nothing "proper 3-series" about that car. The G20 takes a crap on the outgoing model any day despite the lack of a stick.
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      12-15-2018, 12:04 PM   #7
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I understand where you're coming from but the bigger issue for me is steering. I don't care that the F30 had a manual, it sucked balls to drive. There was nothing "proper 3-series" about that car. The G20 takes a crap on the outgoing model any day despite the lack of a stick.
I agree about the F30. I was at my dealer I bought my E90 from sometime back in the fall of 2013. My sales rep was still there and suggested I take out an F30 320i with a sport package (he was trying to dump it for cheap). What a terrible car. The brakes and steering were not sourced from BMW I thought. I took it on some great country roads. You couldn't place the car at an apex to save your life. And for BMW to just de-tune the N20 down to 181 HP, was a poor choice by BMW. What a downgrade from the E90.

I get it that the market now doesn't really care about sports sedans, but this is a BMW 3-series and BMWs in the US have never been inexpensive; BMW should foot the bill to give us a choice of a properly-sorted manual transmission in the non-M version of the G20. GM and Ford have the balls to keep the Camaro and Mustang fitted with a V8 and manual transmission as keen to those cars legacies. BMW should do the same for the 3-series.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      12-15-2018, 01:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I agree about the F30. I was at my dealer I bought my E90 from sometime back in the fall of 2013. My sales rep was still there and suggested I take out an F30 320i with a sport package (he was trying to dump it for cheap). What a terrible car. The brakes and steering were not sourced from BMW I thought. I took it on some great country roads. You couldn't place the car at an apex to save your life. And for BMW to just de-tune the N20 down to 181 HP, was a poor choice by BMW. What a downgrade from the E90.

I get it that the market now doesn't really care about sports sedans, but this is a BMW 3-series and BMWs in the US have never been inexpensive; BMW should foot the bill to give us a choice of a properly-sorted manual transmission in the non-M version of the G20. GM and Ford have the balls to keep the Camaro and Mustang fitted with a V8 and manual transmission as keen to those cars legacies. BMW should do the same for the 3-series.
Agreed on all counts!

My E90 is an auto so I personally don't mind the lack of a stick too much. It's definitely a bit disappointing the G20 won't have it because I feel that's one of the things I wish I had on my car. But still I could make the transition.

The G20 looks good and is light but it's just become too big a car. Throw in the fact that electric steering will never mimic the feedback of a hydraulic rack and I'm not sure how much I'll like this new car. Even if EPS could provide more feedback BMW would not tune it to. The world has changed since the days of the E90, all the sheep want tech and comfort instead of driving bliss.

With all that being said BMW remains the de facto choice in this segment, especially if you want a coupe. I still think the Giulia will be more engaging to drive but otherwise it's a very mediocre car and only comes in 4 doors.

Last edited by Germanauto; 12-15-2018 at 01:11 PM..
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      12-15-2018, 01:41 PM   #9
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Agreed on all counts!

My E90 is an auto so I personally don't mind the lack of a stick too much. It's definitely a bit disappointing the G20 won't have it because I feel that's one of the things I wish I had on my car. But still I could make the transition.

The G20 looks good and is light but it's just become too big a car. Throw in the fact that electric steering will never mimic the feedback of a hydraulic rack and I'm not sure how much I'll like this new car. Even if EPS could provide more feedback BMW would not tune it to. The world has changed since the days of the E90, all the sheep want tech and comfort instead of driving bliss.

With all that being said BMW remains the de facto choice in this segment, especially if you want a coupe. I still think the Giulia will be more engaging to drive but otherwise it's a very mediocre car and only comes in 4 doors.
So I've have/had 4 BMWs: 1989 E30 325i, 1997 Z3, 2006 E90 325i, and my 2008 Z4 3.0si Coupe. 3 of those cars have hydraulic steering and the Z4 has electric. Except for the Z4, all were bought new. The E30 is the only one still not in the fleet (yes, I've repeatedly kicked myself in the ass for selling it). I've driven both EPS-equipped F30 and Caddy ATS for over 800 miles each in separate weeks, only one week apart from each other on my normal daily commute (I had both as loaner cars). The F30 and the ATS use the same ZF steering rack. My commute goes from the mountains west of Washington DC to Northern Virginia so I get a mix of really great back country roads, rural highway, and suburban streets with heavy traffic (read that as my aggressive cut and thrust driving).

Between the E30 and E90, I'd call the steering feel a toss up; the E30 was lighter yet as precise as the E90, with the E30 maybe having slightly better feedback. Between the E90 and the Z4, I find the Z4 electric steering to best mimic hydraulic. It think it is because of the design of the system where the steering column is assisted by an electric motor instead of the steering rack. I don't think the Z4 has any better or worse feedback and feel than the E30 or E90. The Z4 is a dynamic chassis with a wide and short wheelbase so it tramlines like all get out at street speeds; get it moving though, and it's very agile. Between the F30 and the ATS, the ATS steering was far ahead of the F30 in precision, feel, and feedback. The ATS despite every BMW fanboy shitting on it, has great steering and is a great sports sedan drive.

While in search of a two-seat coupe I test drove the 1st-gen Cayman. Nice steering, not memorable nor orgasmic as I thought a Porsche would be, but the Cayman overall drove better than the Z4, but not by much.

All that said, the best steering and driving BMW I've had the pleasure of being at the helm was the E21. Drive an E21 on a gravel road slowly and you'll think your palms are tracing the stones.

I'll not judge the G20 until I drive it of course. The rags seem to like it. I was going to get an ATS with the great deals on them these past few months (only in automatic form though), but the E90 doesn't want to retire just yet, so I decided to hold off for the Caddy CT5. Based on GM's recent announcements, I doubt Caddy will build it, which is disappointing...
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-15-2018 at 01:49 PM..
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      12-15-2018, 02:17 PM   #10
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Ok, maybe I'm in the minority group, but I don't think the F3x is as bad as some of you guys make it. It definitely DOES NOT drive like a normal family car, and definitely DOES not drive like a race car either - but at the end of the day it still is relatively agile in comparison to other "sport sedans." KEYWORD, RELATIVE.

I've had an e36 / e46 / e60 / f82. So it's not like I haven't driven / felt the older BMW cars / 3 series chassis before.. and yes the E36 / E46 definitely feels more raw but what older car doesn't? The e36 / e46 chassis flex compared to my F82 has to be significantly different - the e36/e46 felt like the chassis would twist and make so many noises. Any previous car feels more "raw" and part of that experience is due to the more vibrations, sounds, less sound dampening, hydraulics, older tech, etc etc. I would gladly take the F3x reliability over the E36 / E46! The E36 / E46 chassis over bumps and as the car aged, literally felt like the car was falling apart. In under 80k miles both e46 / e36 had underwent multiple service issues, such as RTAB, Thrust mount bushings, control arms, shock mounts, multiple window regulators, horrendous water pump / expansion tank issues. The e60 / e90 seemed to be much more solid cars compared to the prior generations, and I still changed out my control arm bushings / water pump at 100k, even though they were still ok. (Old habits die hard..) Having owned the E6X 550i for 120k miles, it absolutely destroyed my E36 / E46 in reliability. Yes the F3x lost some of the feel due to going electric steering and what not, but compared to other competitors (Lexus IS / Mercedes C, Audi A4) I still think BMW is doing just fine!

Just my 2 cents
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      12-15-2018, 02:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Agreed on all counts!

My E90 is an auto so I personally don't mind the lack of a stick too much. It's definitely a bit disappointing the G20 won't have it because I feel that's one of the things I wish I had on my car. But still I could make the transition.

The G20 looks good and is light but it's just become too big a car. Throw in the fact that electric steering will never mimic the feedback of a hydraulic rack and I'm not sure how much I'll like this new car. Even if EPS could provide more feedback BMW would not tune it to. The world has changed since the days of the E90, all the sheep want tech and comfort instead of driving bliss.

With all that being said BMW remains the de facto choice in this segment, especially if you want a coupe. I still think the Giulia will be more engaging to drive but otherwise it's a very mediocre car and only comes in 4 doors.
Manufacturers started moving to EPS for fuel economy reasons and it's a matter of time until they all have them as driver aids will eventually be a government requirement as drivers today are simply too distracted and bad drivers. Yes you can tell the difference but unless you are tracking your car to it's limits it's not really a big deal on a daily driver on my M2 at least and I've driven Mustangs that have pretty good EPS steering so when done right it can be pretty good.

Last edited by heavyD^2; 12-15-2018 at 02:28 PM..
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      12-15-2018, 02:47 PM   #12
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I can't believe that I would have ever, ever say this, but Kia is actually beating BMW at their own game right now and it's disappointing to me as a longtime fan.
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      12-15-2018, 02:47 PM   #13
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All I can add is that when I started looking at a Tesla Model 3, that it is an awkward looking car with an awful choice of colors and a cheap feeling interior. At least the BMW G-20 is none of those.
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      12-15-2018, 02:52 PM   #14
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the F30 was an abomination. Just an appliance built with 0 enthusiasm. Will go down as one of the low points in BMW history. Nasty interior, nasty exterior, poor driving experience.

There's nothing BMW is doing at the moment which makes me believe the G20 will be any different. I don't believe the propaganda reviews that come out upon launch; those reviewers just want to keep getting invited to BMW events so they indulge the company.

I will drive one of these newer 3-series myself as a loaner car and THEN i will make up my mind; however at this time i am going to assume it will also be pretty bad based on how absurdly poor the F30 was. I hope i'm wrong i'm hoping the G20 is a wonderful car to drive! *holds breath*
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      12-15-2018, 03:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
A proper 3-series has a manual transmission; the G20 doesn't offer a manual trans in the US.
Times have changed. Back then the auto sucked and the manual was supisrior.

Now that is no longer true and other than "engagement" or "feel" which some don't care about, now the market has spoken, manual sales are down. Hell I don't want a manual f30 and certainly won't be buying manual g20 new. So I really don't care what BMW does, they simply no longer make cars I want. I will continue to own manuals but I won't go around crying about it when a manufacture decides it is no longer feasible for them to keep making it. There are plenty of great cars already in existence to satisfy my needs for a manual.
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      12-15-2018, 03:15 PM   #16
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I can't believe that I would have ever, ever say this, but Kia is actually beating BMW at their own game right now and it's disappointing to me as a longtime fan.
So which Kia are you more down for over BMW? I can't see myself going down this road. Judging by your cars I don't see you doing the same either, but prove me wrong.
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      12-15-2018, 03:18 PM   #17
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Times have changed. Back then the auto sucked and the manual was supisrior.

Now that is no longer true and other than "engagement" or "feel" which some don't care about, now the market has spoken, manual sales are down. Hell I don't want a manual f30 and certainly won't be buying manual g20 new. So I really don't care what BMW does, they simply no longer make cars I want. I will continue to own manuals but I won't go around crying about it when a manufacture decides it is no longer feasible for them to keep making it. There are plenty of great cars already in existence to satisfy my needs for a manual.
i agree with you; however the ultimate tragedy here is how someone USED to be able to wander into a BMW dealer, pick the CHEAPEST 3-series with a manual---and drive home one of the finest cars in the world. Such is not the case.

Originally, M cars were meant to merely be a low production 'niche' option. Now we are forced to buy an M car just to get a BMW with some guts. Pretty unfortunate...

It's not true for other brands. One can STILL go and buy the CHEAPEST Porsche and arguably get the most fun one right out of the showroom. Not the case with BMW.
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      12-15-2018, 03:39 PM   #18
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It's not true for other brands. One can STILL go and buy the CHEAPEST Porsche and arguably get the most fun one right out of the showroom. Not the case with BMW.
Right now, the cheapest new porsche at my local dealership is 4 banger automatic Macan.

It's $55k.

Your comparison sucks.
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      12-15-2018, 04:14 PM   #19
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Right now, the cheapest new porsche at my local dealership is 4 banger automatic Macan.

It's $55k.

Your comparison sucks.
CAR Magazine U.K. [regardless of magazine or not] “a sports car not an SUV says Porsche. Incredibly, we agree. The Macan is excellent to drive and handles better than a 4x4 has any right to"

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      12-15-2018, 04:33 PM   #20
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Right now, the cheapest new porsche at my local dealership is 4 banger automatic Macan.

It's $55k.

Your comparison sucks.
eh...i'm talking about their sports cars. i don't care about SUVs.
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      12-15-2018, 06:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftercompletion View Post
Right now, the cheapest new porsche at my local dealership is 4 banger automatic Macan.

It's $55k.

Your comparison sucks.
eh...i'm talking about their sports cars. i don't care about SUVs.
Congratulations.

You just made his point stronger.

That’s like saying the cheapest Bentley isn’t luxurious.

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      12-15-2018, 08:55 PM   #22
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I agree about the F30. I was at my dealer I bought my E90 from sometime back in the fall of 2013. My sales rep was still there and suggested I take out an F30 320i with a sport package (he was trying to dump it for cheap). What a terrible car. The brakes and steering were not sourced from BMW I thought. I took it on some great country roads. You couldn't place the car at an apex to save your life. And for BMW to just de-tune the N20 down to 181 HP, was a poor choice by BMW. What a downgrade from the E90..
You should have slammed it into a tree then, put it out of its misery.

Do you you think BMW NA specially ordered a batch of deliberately detuned 328s, just for you?
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