[tonben]

Hi everyone,

Vehicle: 2021 540xi Msport with dynamic handling package….

While driving, I received a dashboard prompt stating that my front passenger side tire ( continental 245/40 R19 runflat ), was losing air pressure. I went from 30 PSI to 0 in less than 4 minutes.

I was able to get the car home which was about 17 miles away, then eventually called Roadside Assistance and had the car towed to a BMW dealership.

The following day the service advisor stated that I needed to replace both front tires and that ALL four wheels (845M) were bent and had to be straightened/reconditioned at a price of $180 each. He also stated that rather that replacing the wheels, this process was a normal procedure done by an in house machine.

So these are my questions:

1. Is it possible to bend these wheels (845M) without sustaining any tire damage?

2. Also if these rims were bent or warped, shouldn’t I have felt vibrations?

Please advise,

Thank you.
Tony.

[aerof16]

If the ride was fine, no vibrations, and your tire went flat, then the other rims are fine. However, hero to zero in less than 4 minutes is pretty severe, so if you hit something like a pothole I could believe that rim being damaged.

Highly likely that your 3 other rims and tires are fine. Your flat tire may or may not be able to be repaired, depending on where the puncture was and how long you drove on it without proper pressure.

Possible that one rim is damaged as well. You could easily take your car to a 3rd party like discount tire and they'll give you an honest answer. If they can't balance that wheel with a new tire, then the rim is bent.

[crypto]

In the past, not in this car though, I've sustained a hit to my wheel while driving that bent my rim. I hit a monster pot hole. My tire lost air pretty damn quick. However, the bend was only visible from the interior edge of the wheel.. so only visible with the wheel off the car. In short.. when I lost air I knew exactly what caused it.

Did your car hit something you think is to blame for this? If so, was it something all four wheels ran over? In general it's a fairly binary thing. The wheels are bent or they are not. Obviously you have a confirmed issue with one wheel. No one here can tell if your other three are bent or not but I would suspect you can probably visually determine this if you take a sample wheel off the car.

I had my rim fixed at a local shop and this was probably 8-9 years ago but I think it cost $125-150 so the general cost doesn't seem ridiculous.

[Joe-BMW33]

Run flats are notoriously hard and with that, they don't take pot holes well. I went through 9 run flats in two years on my F10. Sometimes it was - "See Pothole" - not enough time to react and double flats instantaneously. Thank god for wheel and tire insurance. It's the only thing on the menu when taking delivery that I consider.

Never again with run flats. They actually cause wheel bends or rather they don't protect the wheel. The entire sidewalls are steel, so the tire does not compress when you hit something and transfers all the force to the rim.

It may be likely all four of yours are bent. In terms of severity, can't be that bad as you have not felt any wobble, shaking or vibration in the drivers seat (rear wheel bend or balance issue symptom). The dealer is doing what dealers do, pointing out issues. $180 per wheel with reconditioning is a steal at the dealer. Personally, if the dealer pointed it out to me and I didn't do it, I would be OCD about "feeling something" and wondering if it could ride smoother. In terms of needing both front tires, are they telling you they have to be replaced in pairs? I assume a 2021 has plenty of meat on them still. Unless I am out of touch, you don't want to mix and match brands, but going with one replacement seems reasonable.

[hlothery]

For a tire to go flat that quickly from a puncture is pretty rare, unless the puncture is very large. Therefore, probably needs replacement. However, I find it dubious at best that all the wheels are bent, unless you constantly hit large potholes. I have had one bent, and repaired, but believe me I knew when it happened. As far as tires, I have been using Michelin PS3ZP runflats for about two years now and love them. No problems since I ditched the OEM Goodyears. Just FYI.

[Opie55]

A slightly bent wheel can be adequately balanced because balance is mostly about the weight distribution around the center, and a slight bend will not affect that. I would ask them to tell me how out of round the other three wheels are. The industry standard is supposedly 30/1,000th of an inch, both side to side and up and down. Anything beyond that should be straightened. That is about the thickness of a dozen sheets of ordinary copy paper. It would seem a simple a matter for a place like Discount tire to have a runout gauge to measure that when the tires are off, but I asked if they can measure runout and they looked at me like I was crazy.

[dscabra]

A bent wheel doesn't surprise me at all, but all four seems a bit odd. It really doesn't take much to bend a wheel with low-profile tires and a heavy car. Run flats are generally not repairable, although I've had Bridgestone Drive Guard run-flats that are. Regardless of the repair or don't repair recommendations for your specific tires, if you've driven any distance on a run-flat, the tire is likely ruined from the heat generated in the sidewalls. Also, if your car is X-Drive, the recommendation is almost always going to be to replace in pairs or all four depending on the wear on the tires.

Edit:

Good general info here: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=226

[claykin]

I'm surprised a BMW dealer offers wheel straightening service. You can't even get a BMW dealer to do a run flat patch. They're too worried about liability.

My local dealer started sending videos of my car while in for service. I find it handy to hear directly from the tech as to what he's done and found for any issues raised. This would be really helpful in your case as they could have shown you the damaged wheel/tire in a video.

My suggestions

1. Show up unexpected and ask them to show you the damage.

2. Take it to a quality tire shop that has a lever less tire mounting machine and let them spin the wheels and take a runout measurement.

[LogicalApex]

The bent wheel stuff seems a bit juicy to me if you’re not feeling it at all and it isn’t showing up in your wear pattern. If you aren’t feeling it and it isn’t causing excessive tire wear I’d skip it. You can have it done at anytime for the same price.

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Run flats are notoriously hard and with that, they don't take pot holes well. I went through 9 run flats in two years on my F10. Sometimes it was - "See Pothole" - not enough time to react and double flats instantaneously. Thank god for wheel and tire insurance. It's the only thing on the menu when taking delivery that I consider.

I think it comes down to tire more than anything. On my last car with OEM non-run flat tires I went through over 10 tires in a year due to pot holes. This was on 17” wheels too! Wheel & Tire insurance paid for itself, but still took a lot for it to do so (and I only paid $800 for it). I skipped it on my G30. So far my tires have held up extremely well and are run flats. Bad tires are bad tires. Obviously, I am not suggesting that any tire can withstand all potholes!

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

The bent wheel stuff seems a bit juicy to me if you’re not feeling it at all and it isn’t showing up in your wear pattern. If you aren’t feeling it and it isn’t causing excessive tire wear I’d skip it. You can have it done at anytime for the same price.



I think it comes down to tire more than anything. On my last car with OEM non-run flat tires I went through over 10 tires in a year due to pot holes. This was on 17” wheels too! Wheel & Tire insurance paid for itself, but still took a lot for it to do so (and I only paid $800 for it). I skipped it on my G30. So far my tires have held up extremely well and are run flats. Bad tires are bad tires. Obviously, I am not suggesting that any tire can withstand all potholes!

I probably could have skipped the W&T insurance this time and self funded damage for less. I paid $1900 bucks for it. It's includes cosmetic repair which I already used once for some minor rash. That said, I run 20" staggered summer performance non run flats. The car will not see winter which is when most of the potholes are at there worst. Second guessing it a bit, but what's done is done. Peace of mind after 9 tires in two years. In terms of your comment about whether it all about the tire or not, I don't know, these were BMW OEM's (Bridgestone maybe?) and they rode like hard tricycle solid tires. Summer tires are the best if you can run them.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

I probably could have skipped the W&T insurance this time and self funded damage for less. I paid $1900 bucks for it. It's includes cosmetic repair which I already used once for some minor rash. That said, I run 20" staggered summer performance non run flats. The car will not see winter which is when most of the potholes are at there worst. Second guessing it a bit, but what's done is done. Peace of mind after 9 tires in two years. In terms of your comment about whether it all about the tire or not, I don't know, these were BMW OEM's (Bridgestone maybe?) and they rode like hard tricycle solid tires. Summer tires are the best if you can run them.

The dealer wanted $2300 for 5Y of W&T for my G30. That would be impossible to come top side on. Additionally, replacement tires almost always come with free Road Hazard. So you get coverage pretty cheaply anyway.

For that last car I mentioned it was a ‘14 Mercedes Benz C300 w/ OEM Continental ContiProContact tires. The sidewall was straight when inflated so my layman’s opinion was it wasn’t engineered for pot holes as there wasn’t much room for it to flex. I like to get what I pay for so I wasn’t as annoyed burning through the W&T when needed, but my wife got pretty annoyed with the whole thing. Swapped to Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 and never replaced another tire for a pothole on that car. And added over 60K miles on them (replaced them once due to wear at 50K miles). Same tire brand, same car, but different tire and a night and day difference. On my G30 my OEM run flat tires have been bulletproof. Even after hitting a few nasty potholes that made the car unlock the doors in case it was a crash.

BMW and the aftermarket one the dealer was pushing both are weak compared to the MB coverage though. Too many limitations and rules and the BMW one even has a deductible as well. MB OEM W&T is actually pretty damn amazing. Unlimited tire replacements for issues until 2/32nds (legal min) at any tire shop including dealers (was useful when I had an issue pre-road trip and needed to use Sears since it was Sunday). Covers any tire you mount on the car as long as it was OEM sizing. Unlimited cosmetic repairs for stuff like road rash. Etc.. Really great coverage. Oh and no deductible on anything. When I swapped over to the DWS06 it was when I had both my fronts get bubbled out on a nasty pothole. MB W&T paid for 2 tires, Sears paid for 1 due to a sale w/ 1 free if you buy 4...

[tonben]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The information I have received has been quite eye-opening.

Since posting these questions, I have learned that the bends that the service advisor spoke of were located on the inner rim of the wheels, and must have been sustained over the period of time since acquiring the car.

I also was not aware of the potential regular damage runflat tires can cause to wheels with daily use.

It was also explained that even though just the front passenger-side tire was damaged, I should replace both tires to keep a matched pair.

Since I was ignorant/unaware of all these facts, I stupidly refused wheel and tire coverage at the time it was offered.

I just have to be significantly more careful while driving.

Thank you all,
Tony.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by tonben

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The information I have received has been quite eye-opening.

Since posting these questions, I have learned that the bends that the service advisor spoke of were located on the inner rim of the wheels, and must have been sustained over the period of time since acquiring the car.

I also was not aware of the potential regular damage runflat tires can cause to wheels with daily use.

It was also explained that even though just the front passenger-side tire was damaged, I should replace both tires to keep a matched pair.

Since I was ignorant/unaware of all these facts, I stupidly refused wheel and tire coverage at the time it was offered.

I just have to be significantly more careful while driving.

Thank you all,
Tony.

Thanks for the update Tony. Don't dwell on it, but you probably can see what I paid above and two new tires and four wheel restorations would have almost paid for my insurance. I am sure they are doing an alignment, not sure but my guess is W&T would have paid for it. May be worth asking if you can still buy it although you are already under water.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by tonben

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The information I have received has been quite eye-opening.

Since posting these questions, I have learned that the bends that the service advisor spoke of were located on the inner rim of the wheels, and must have been sustained over the period of time since acquiring the car.

I also was not aware of the potential regular damage runflat tires can cause to wheels with daily use.

It was also explained that even though just the front passenger-side tire was damaged, I should replace both tires to keep a matched pair.

Since I was ignorant/unaware of all these facts, I stupidly refused wheel and tire coverage at the time it was offered.

I just have to be significantly more careful while driving.

Thank you all,
Tony.

What do they mean by changing both tires to keep a matched pair? Surely, the dealership is putting on the same OEM tire that matches your other three unless you're explicitly deciding to change to a new tire. If you have AWD (xDrive) you should have the same tire brand and model on all 4 wheels to ensure you have predictable handling and the AWD system does as well. Otherwise, the only other time you need to start watching other tires is if you have AWD and you're making sure the new tire is shaved down to have a similar tread depth as the others (if needed) to prevent excess strain on the AWD system.

Something sounds off with the need for you to swap the other tire...

I'm also not convinced run flats are anymore harsh on the rims than non-run flat tires. I'm in Philly and I hit pot holes all day since they aren't avoidable here (hard to avoid them when they cover all of the road surface...). I've lost some wheel weights, but I don't have bent wheels yet... I am on 18" wheels though with give me more cushion to protect the rims. Larger profile wheels can lack that cushion though run-flat or not.

Also, as I mentioned earlier about the IMHO weak coverage of W&T on BMW I'd say read whatever W&T you consider next time. They may not be as useful as you think. Also, since you're in the US and buying from a BMW Dealer you'll get free tire coverage anyway for the replacement tire for up to 1Y. Keep that in mind too.

https://bmwusaservice.com/tires/roadhazardtirecoverage

[wigglebutts]

A dishonest employee at a dealership?

Nooooooo, those don't exist.

[tonben]

Replacement of the undamaged tire was to keep a matched tread wear set in the front.

Is it really still possible to get W&T coverage from BMW after the purchase?

And if not from BMW, anyone has other suggested company options?

Tony.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

What do they mean by changing both tires to keep a matched pair? Surely, the dealership is putting on the same OEM tire that matches your other three unless you're explicitly deciding to change to a new tire. If you have AWD (xDrive) you should have the same tire brand and model on all 4 wheels to ensure you have predictable handling and the AWD system does as well. Otherwise, the only other time you need to start watching other tires is if you have AWD and you're making sure the new tire is shaved down to have a similar tread depth as the others (if needed) to prevent excess strain on the AWD system.

Something sounds off with the need for you to swap the other tire...

I'm also not convinced run flats are anymore harsh on the rims than non-run flat tires. I'm in Philly and I hit pot holes all day since they aren't avoidable here (hard to avoid them when they cover all of the road surface...). I've lost some wheel weights, but I don't have bent wheels yet... I am on 18" wheels though with give me more cushion to protect the rims. Larger profile wheels can lack that cushion though run-flat or not.

Also, as I mentioned earlier about the IMHO weak coverage of W&T on BMW I'd say read whatever W&T you consider next time. They may not be as useful as you think. Also, since you're in the US and buying from a BMW Dealer you'll get free tire coverage anyway for the replacement tire for up to 1Y. Keep that in mind too.

https://bmwusaservice.com/tires/roadhazardtirecoverage

Specific to my F10 a few years back, I bought the W&T on delivery (new car lease). I can not remember who the actual underwriter was, but I never had any issue with a claim. I think I had a small $50 deductible per incident, which for the two tire blowout was $50.

YMMV, but I was very pleased. I could bring it to any BMW dealer and they direct billed. It was somewhat on record with my VIN. Philly isn't as bad as Boston, my son went to SJU. You guys are better at road upkeep and the weather is slightly better. Mass roads are the absolute worst. Maybe you have had better luck with run flats overall or maybe they have improved since my F10, but everyone I know takes them off as soon as they get the car. I had 19's on my F10 and yes, the lower the profile, the less sidewall and less support. I wasn't messing with 20" runflats this time around.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by tonben

Replacement of the undamaged tire was to keep a matched tread wear set in the front.

Is it really still possible to get W&T coverage from BMW after the purchase?

And if not from BMW, anyone has other suggested company options?

Tony.

Call or email the financial guy at your dealer who closed you out. If they can, I am SURE he will be more than happy to sell you a contract. Mine is through Allstate, none of them are actually from BMW. The dealer just sells them.

EDIT: and I am not buying the mis-matched tread thing. There is no way W&T insurance would pay for that garbage statement, which is telling.

[Warp Ten]

I worked at a BMW dealership between 2007 and 2014 and now have lots of friends their and get straight answers. A while back in my 2010 535xi with run flats, I had a big blowout on my way to a dinner. Drove to the dinner, drove home and drove to the dealer the next day. (I like run flats). When the car was up on the lift, the tech showed me where the rim was slightly bent, said it was not cracked and held air but recommended that the wheel be replaced. They had mounted and balanced a new tire but he said I would probably feel the bent rim. I decided to try it anyway, and it was really fine for a year or so but I could in fact feel it so I eventually decided to get a new wheel. As I recall it was not too expensive (about $400 for the wheel) so I had it replaced. They did offer a straightening service but I decided on a new wheel. Everything fine after that and the other wheels were not bent.

Similarly, last year when I replaced my OEM Pilot Sports with all season runflats on my Corvette Z06, the tech said the two passenger side wheels were slightly bent but with their Road Force equipment hey were able to get them to balance out just fine. In that case, I have not noticed any vibrations from the bent wheels, so I assume the bends weren't too bad. (The C7 Z06 wheels are very prone to bends and cracks so I will watch closely as I go forward).

So my thought is that I would recommend you ask the dealer service tech to show you the bent wheels with the car up on a lift and explain his thoughts on the wheel and tire conditions; I am sure they would do that for you. If the tech knows it is not cracked but bent enough to be felt, he is probably right, but you can always have them mount a tire and you can try it for a while before deciding whether either a replacement or wheel straightening is required. As to new tires, if the mileage on the tires is not too great, I would say you can just replace the one front tire with the same brand and type as the rest (as I did on my 535). If the tires are fairly worn, then I would suggest replacing both fronts. (The issue in my mind is tire circumference affecting all-wheel drive sensors). Of course if it is about time for new tires all around anyway, well then that would be best. As to all four wheels being bent, my question is did you feel vibrations in the wheels before your blowout? If not maybe they are not too bad and were adequately balanced. I would definitely make sure your dealer or shop uses the Hunter Revolution tire changer and Road Force balancing equipment. Mylocal BMW dealership has both, as does a nearby Firestone company store where I had my Z06 done. Hope you get it fixed to your satisfaction. --Bob

[COBodom]

Originally Posted by tonben

So these are my questions:

1. Is it possible to bend these wheels (845M) without sustaining any tire damage?

2. Also if these rims were bent or warped, shouldn’t I have felt vibrations?

Welcome to the forum Tony.

Sounds like you have sorted out the situation already, but here's my $0.05...

• Yes, it is absolutely possible to have bent wheels and undamaged tires. Now, what "bent" really means and whether you can even feel it while driving is a different story. At almost every visit my dealer tells me my rims are bent. I don't feel anything. So do I care? No, I don't and I will not pay, on a leased car, ~1k to make the four wheels round again because dealer's laboratory testing indicates they are not. Is it gonna trigger some other damage? Highly unlikely since I cant even feel it. Doing nothing and not acting on dealer's precious recommendation did not result in any damage to my last four leased BMWs. Also, If you drive in NYC, your wheel will get bent the moment you drive off the dealer's lot. They will certainly exceed dealers tolerance. In short, dealer is milking you, cause they can.
  
  
• Unless there's some significant delta in thread depth between the wheels you don't need to replace the undamaged tire. You can google what the acceptable deltas are. Sure, dealer will tell you to do so for obvious reasons.

• Get yourself a portable VIAIR 85P compressor ($80). In the event of a slow leak you re-inflate the tire. Drive home (no towing), buy a tire from Tire Rack and have your local tire place put it on your car for $30 the next day or tops 48hours later.

What I mentioned has been my default modus operandi for my last 4 leases.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by COBodom

Welcome to the forum Tony.

Sounds like you have sorted out the situation already, but here's my $0.05...

• Yes, it is absolutely possible to have bent wheels and undamaged tires. Now, what "bent" really means and whether you can even feel it while driving is a different story. At almost every visit my dealer tells me my rims are bent. I don't feel anything. So do I care? No, I don't and I will not pay, on a leased car, ~1k to make the four wheels round again because dealer's laboratory testing indicates they are not. Is it gonna trigger some other damage? Highly unlikely since I cant even feel it. Doing nothing and not acting on dealer's precious recommendation did not result in any damage to my last four leased BMWs. Also, If you drive in NYC, your wheel will get bent the moment you drive off the dealer's lot. They will certainly exceed dealers tolerance. In short, dealer is milking you, cause they can.
  
  
• Unless there's some significant delta in thread depth between the wheels you don't need to replace the undamaged tire. You can google what the acceptable deltas are. Sure, dealer will tell you to do so for obvious reasons.

• Get yourself a portable VIAIR 85P compressor ($80). In the event of a slow leak you re-inflate the tire. Drive home (no towing), buy a tire from Tire Rack and have your local tire place put it on your car for $30 the next day or tops 48hours later.

What I mentioned has been my default modus operandi for my last 4 leases.

And a nice bonus with Tire Rack is they throw in 2 years of road hazard protection…

https://www.tirerack.com/content/tir...ires/trhp.html

[claykin]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

And a nice bonus with Tire Rack is they throw in 2 years of road hazard protection…

https://www.tirerack.com/content/tir...ires/trhp.html

And tire racks road hazard should cover run flat tire replacement, as BMW recommends. Just make sure you follow the claim rules to the letter of their rules or you may be denied on a technicality.

Btw, if you need to prove BMW does not permit run flat tire repair, refer to your owners manual. There's a clause in there about repair of tire damage. This will be sufficient under the road hazard rules. And you're covered down to 2/32 of tread. Pretty good coverage.