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      02-14-2019, 10:13 AM   #23
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tl;dr or Cliffs Notes version? Can't stream video through this firewall.
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      02-14-2019, 10:14 AM   #24
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Best thread title to describe the situation ever.
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      02-14-2019, 12:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
tl;dr or Cliffs Notes version? Can't stream video through this firewall.
Dershowitz's position is this is a freedom of speech/freedom of the press issue. Abrams vocalizes a position where this issue *approaches* criminality... But Dershowitz's point is that if it isn't clearly and indisputably a criminal act, then freedom of speech wins the argument. Dershowitz also makes the point that the press threatens people all the time, and infringing on The Enquirer's freedom of speech will set a precedent to infringe on the freedoms of more reputable media outlets.

It's interesting how media outlets don't seem to be taking a protective tone on press freedoms in this instance.
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      02-14-2019, 01:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Dershowitz's position is this is a freedom of speech/freedom of the press issue. Abrams vocalizes a position where this issue *approaches* criminality... But Dershowitz's point is that if it isn't clearly and indisputably a criminal act, then freedom of speech wins the argument. Dershowitz also makes the point that the press threatens people all the time, and infringing on The Enquirer's freedom of speech will set a precedent to infringe on the freedoms of more reputable media outlets.

It's interesting how media outlets don't seem to be taking a protective tone on press freedoms in this instance.
Well, I'm certainly no lawyer, but telling someone: "Stop WaPo's investigation and release an official announcement that it's not politically motivated, or else we're going to publish your dick pics." Seems an awful lot like blackmail/extortion to me.

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      02-14-2019, 01:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Well, I'm certainly no lawyer, but telling someone: "Stop WaPo's investigation and release an official announcement that it's not politically motivated, or else we're going to publish your dick pics." Seems an awful lot like blackmail/extortion to me.

I'm no expert but I'm inclined to agree with you on this.
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      02-14-2019, 02:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan_clt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Dershowitz's position is this is a freedom of speech/freedom of the press issue. Abrams vocalizes a position where this issue *approaches* criminality... But Dershowitz's point is that if it isn't clearly and indisputably a criminal act, then freedom of speech wins the argument. Dershowitz also makes the point that the press threatens people all the time, and infringing on The Enquirer's freedom of speech will set a precedent to infringe on the freedoms of more reputable media outlets.

It's interesting how media outlets don't seem to be taking a protective tone on press freedoms in this instance.
Well, I'm certainly no lawyer, but telling someone: "Stop WaPo's investigation and release an official announcement that it's not politically motivated, or else we're going to publish your dick pics." Seems an awful lot like blackmail/extortion to me.

The point Dershowitz is making is that we have to provide "breathing room" for freedom of speech/freedom of the press. As soon as anyone can only say it seems like extortion, then that isn't enough to override freedom of speech. It has to be unequivocally extortion... and pretty much nobody is calling this unequivocally illegal/extortion. Even Abrams called it extortion-ish, and wouldn't label it as clear extortion.

Dershowitz also points to the fact that the press will threaten people all the time. He said the he himself has been threatened by members of the press on multiple occasions. This is normal operating procedure.

He also points out that he's never heard of someone committing extortion via a letter from a lawyer. That is unheard of.
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      02-14-2019, 03:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
He also points out that he's never heard of someone committing extortion via a letter from a lawyer. That is unheard of.
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      02-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #30
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oh, i thought this was a new De Blasio thread:

"Bezos exposes pecker"
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      02-14-2019, 03:42 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The point Dershowitz is making is that we have to provide "breathing room" for freedom of speech/freedom of the press. As soon as anyone can only say it seems like extortion, then that isn't enough to override freedom of speech. It has to be unequivocally extortion... and pretty much nobody is calling this unequivocally illegal/extortion. Even Abrams called it extortion-ish, and wouldn't label it as clear extortion.

Dershowitz also points to the fact that the press will threaten people all the time. He said the he himself has been threatened by members of the press on multiple occasions. This is normal operating procedure.

He also points out that he's never heard of someone committing extortion via a letter from a lawyer. That is unheard of.
Again, I'm not a lawyer and I'm unaware of whether there is legal nuance in the appropriate statutes to allow for this or not.

I'm certainly not attempting to argue that it crosses the line of criminality if Dershowitz says otherwise, I would argue that it violates the spirit of the law, if not the letter of it, though.

Morally, how is this any different than saying "If you don't do this, I'll break your knees."? You're simply substituting social damage for physical damage.
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      02-14-2019, 07:50 PM   #32
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I expect it is normal operating procedure for paparazzi to routinely offer celebrities the "opportunity" to buy their dick pics / other dirt before they get published. That is effectively pay me or I publish the photos. I would be very surprised if there haven't been some "me too" related deals made as well. Some may even involve consideration other than cash. These seem to be allowed so not sure why Bezo's situation would be criminal. If these deals are determined to be criminal, paparazzi will just sell the dirt to the highest bidder and it gets published with no "opportunity" to avoid it. (Now if they fabricated bullshit and tried to get money from him I think that would be different.)
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      02-14-2019, 09:01 PM   #33
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The example of press threats that Dershowitz pointed to is that he has personally had media organizations say they were going to attribute a quote to him unless he provided them with an on the record statement refuting the quote. Apparently it's extremely difficult to legally call something extortion without a monetary demand. That's the hangup in this case. There wasn't any demand for a payment.

It may be helpful to consider this Pecker deal in the inverse. Would it be constitutionally reverent to support a governmental intervention of the content published by a media organization?

Personally for me to answer yes; there needs to be an unquestionably illegal act taking place. When you hear legal scholars debate the illegality of this particular situation it quickly becomes clear the legality/illegally is debatable. That isn't enough for me (or Mr. Dershowitz) to support government intervention here.

For the record... I'm not a major supporter of this media threat at all. It's slimy. I'm only saying that after hearing people much smarter than me debate the issue; I'm not sure it's appropriate for the federal government to get involved here.
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      02-15-2019, 09:30 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The example of press threats that Dershowitz pointed to is that he has personally had media organizations say they were going to attribute a quote to him unless he provided them with an on the record statement refuting the quote. Apparently it's extremely difficult to legally call something extortion without a monetary demand. That's the hangup in this case. There wasn't any demand for a payment.

It may be helpful to consider this Pecker deal in the inverse. Would it be constitutionally reverent to support a governmental intervention of the content published by a media organization?

Personally for me to answer yes; there needs to be an unquestionably illegal act taking place. When you hear legal scholars debate the illegality of this particular situation it quickly becomes clear the legality/illegally is debatable. That isn't enough for me (or Mr. Dershowitz) to support government intervention here.

For the record... I'm not a major supporter of this media threat at all. It's slimy. I'm only saying that after hearing people much smarter than me debate the issue; I'm not sure it's appropriate for the federal government to get involved here.
That is completely apples/oranges. If I'm a journalist and I have a source, or multiple sources saying "Dershowitz said X and Y." and I give you the opportunity to go on record refuting that account prior to publishing, how is that a threat?



Now, I'll accept that a legal charge of extortion might require a demand of money. What about blackmail? What about other legal charges that might apply to this situation?
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      02-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #35
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Extortion!

https://nypost.com/2019/02/15/amazon...-mortar-store/

Quote: [Amazon] warned Philadelphia that it may rethink its plans to open a brick-and-mortar store there because of the city's proposal to ban so-called cashless stores.
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      02-15-2019, 10:34 AM   #36
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I only get snickers when I expose my pecker. Sometimes skittles.
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