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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum iDrive, Audio, Bluetooth, Phone, Cameras, Electronics + Coding Known bug in s15a-20-11-542 ??

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      02-23-2021, 01:58 PM   #1
belsby
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Known bug in s15a-20-11-542 ??

This was from x3 forum, somebody know if this is same bug when updating G30?
On my G30 530i 2017 i have S15A-17-03-506 and was thinking to update to S15A-20-11-506 or maybe wait for S15A-21-03 if there is a known bug??

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...php?p=27240544
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      02-23-2021, 02:26 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belsby View Post
This was from x3 forum, somebody know if this is same bug when updating G30?
On my G30 530i 2017 i have S15A-17-03-506 and was thinking to update to S15A-20-11-506 or maybe wait for S15A-21-03 if there is a known bug??

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...php?p=27240544
If it's got a trsvc/icam3 then yes
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      02-24-2021, 01:55 AM   #3
belsby
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Looks like its more "bugs" in this version

https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1802359

The big question is. Will 21-03 be bug free and what current version is bug free?
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      02-24-2021, 09:24 AM   #4
LogicalApex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belsby View Post
Looks like its more "bugs" in this version

https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1802359

The big question is. Will 21-03 be bug free and what current version is bug free?
Bug free is an elusive term like hunting for big foot. There may be more or less obvious bugs, but I'd imagine no version is truly bug free.

That being said, the MY2020 cars (and ones like the X3) can only be upgraded at the dealer. All dealer updates are always 1 update ahead of BMW OTA updates. BMW is now pushing out 11/20 OTA to compatible cars because dealers have 3/21. Getting the dealer installed update is best if you can convince them to do it.

Challenge is 3/21 is new so you'll need to wait for complaints about that one too before you know what kind of bugs it has...

If you want the most "bug free" experience you can stick with what you have. As that is a known quantity to you.
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      02-24-2021, 10:55 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Challenge is 3/21 is new so you'll need to wait for complaints about that one too before you know what kind of bugs it has...
It's not "new" in that sense from a software engineering point of view. The release numbers of matched to the current date for bmw software.

So, 20-11-542 for example, was preceded by 20-11-538.

Now, they "could" call the first release of the march istep 20-11-560, or 20-12-500 but it will be 21-03-500.

But the amount of changes will be minimal i would imagine. there may be a few small 'new features', but it will mostly be an incremental update, with more being adding in July.
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      02-24-2021, 11:49 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by davidoff86 View Post
It's not "new" in that sense from a software engineering point of view. The release numbers of matched to the current date for bmw software.

So, 20-11-542 for example, was preceded by 20-11-538.

Now, they "could" call the first release of the march istep 20-11-560, or 20-12-500 but it will be 21-03-500.

But the amount of changes will be minimal i would imagine. there may be a few small 'new features', but it will mostly be an incremental update, with more being adding in July.
It is new in the sense I was talking about. As a Software Engineer the one thing we're keenly aware of is the fact that changes can always introduce bugs no matter the scope of the change. So even a super small minor release (whatever BMW would define that as since we can't see their code) could introduce new bugs while fixing others.

The biggest challenge BMW and other automakers will face here is the increase in release cadence. Meaning, prior to the iDrive 7 with RSU support BMW would probably do all of their development alongside building the vehicle platform. So the G30 systems would be heavily tested before release and only tweaked for fixes before the LCI (with the LCI also going through years of development and testing). Now they are doing quarterly releases that will decrease testing time and leave room for more bugs.

For BMW they tried to counter balance some of this in two basic ways. First, all new releases are dealer only so that they are installed on a smaller number of cars in case there are major issues (like installing the update bricks the car or something fatal). They can then rely on dealer techs to replace parts as needed to get the car back to a "known good state" and they can then pull or tweak the update as needed in a much more manageable way. Second, they release quarterly RSUs so even if minor bugs make it in drivers can be upgraded fairly quickly to help counter it and over time changes will become smaller in scope to limit defect potential.

It is a real shit show for owners like me though who are on the bastard child of MY2020 with iDrive 7 "lite". We have a platform built for frequent updates that we can't obtain so we will have a harder time getting bugs addressed. But I've learned BMW sort of hates us. A shame as it really soiled the brand for me since I feel like a bastard child on my first BMW which was an ordered car I aimed to own long term.
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      02-24-2021, 12:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoff86 View Post
It's not "new" in that sense from a software engineering point of view. The release numbers of matched to the current date for bmw software.

So, 20-11-542 for example, was preceded by 20-11-538.

Now, they "could" call the first release of the march istep 20-11-560, or 20-12-500 but it will be 21-03-500.

But the amount of changes will be minimal i would imagine. there may be a few small 'new features', but it will mostly be an incremental update, with more being adding in July.
It is new in the sense I was talking about. As a Software Engineer the one thing we're keenly aware of is the fact that changes can always introduce bugs no matter the scope of the change. So even a super small minor release (whatever BMW would define that as since we can't see their code) could introduce new bugs while fixing others.

The biggest challenge BMW and other automakers will face here is the increase in release cadence. Meaning, prior to the iDrive 7 with RSU support BMW would probably do all of their development alongside building the vehicle platform. So the G30 systems would be heavily tested before release and only tweaked for fixes before the LCI (with the LCI also going through years of development and testing). Now they are doing quarterly releases that will decrease testing time and leave room for more bugs.

For BMW they tried to counter balance some of this in two basic ways. First, all new releases are dealer only so that they are installed on a smaller number of cars in case there are major issues (like installing the update bricks the car or something fatal). They can then rely on dealer techs to replace parts as needed to get the car back to a "known good state" and they can then pull or tweak the update as needed in a much more manageable way. Second, they release quarterly RSUs so even if minor bugs make it in drivers can be upgraded fairly quickly to help counter it and over time changes will become smaller in scope to limit defect potential.

It is a real shit show for owners like me though who are on the bastard child of MY2020 with iDrive 7 "lite". We have a platform built for frequent updates that we can't obtain so we will have a harder time getting bugs addressed. But I've learned BMW sort of hates us. A shame as it really soiled the brand for me since I feel like a bastard child on my first BMW which was an ordered car I aimed to own long term.
Yes, this applies in the same way for patch releases as well. Every new commit has the chance of failing your tests in CI and introducing new bugs or regressions.

The point I was making was the 20-03 isn't some new shiny "thing", and instead simply an evolution of the codebase, probably with some feature flags turned on
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      02-24-2021, 12:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoff86 View Post
Yes, this applies in the same way for patch releases as well. Every new commit has the chance of failing your tests in CI and introducing new bugs or regressions.

The point I was making was the 20-03 isn't some new shiny "thing", and instead simply an evolution of the codebase, probably with some feature flags turned on
Yeah, I followed that. The driver from my perspective was that the "major" feature filled update was supposed to be the July 2020 update (07/20). Even from the disclosed changes the November 2020 update is smaller (11/20) in scope. I haven't seen a list on the March 2021 (03/21) update to know what they are adding there...

But a bigger challenge for them will be needing to add something to each release. People won't be as interested in installing a new update into their car if the changelog only states "bug fixes"...
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      02-24-2021, 01:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoff86 View Post
Yes, this applies in the same way for patch releases as well. Every new commit has the chance of failing your tests in CI and introducing new bugs or regressions.

The point I was making was the 20-03 isn't some new shiny "thing", and instead simply an evolution of the codebase, probably with some feature flags turned on
Yeah, I followed that. The driver from my perspective was that the "major" feature filled update was supposed to be the July 2020 update (07/20). Even from the disclosed changes the November 2020 update is smaller (11/20) in scope. I haven't seen a list on the March 2021 (03/21) update to know what they are adding there...

But a bigger challenge for them will be needing to add something to each release. People won't be as interested in installing a new update into their car if the changelog only states "bug fixes"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidoff86 View Post
Yes, this applies in the same way for patch releases as well. Every new commit has the chance of failing your tests in CI and introducing new bugs or regressions.

The point I was making was the 20-03 isn't some new shiny "thing", and instead simply an evolution of the codebase, probably with some feature flags turned on
Yeah, I followed that. The driver from my perspective was that the "major" feature filled update was supposed to be the July 2020 update (07/20). Even from the disclosed changes the November 2020 update is smaller (11/20) in scope. I haven't seen a list on the March 2021 (03/21) update to know what they are adding there...

But a bigger challenge for them will be needing to add something to each release. People won't be as interested in installing a new update into their car if the changelog only states "bug fixes"...
True dat. July 2021 is the next big feature release, and will be the last major one for idrive 7 before idrive 8 arrives with the ix and subsequent vehicles. I would imagine they will add some More automation to personal assistant that you can't currently do in March, maybe some new colour options for ambient lights ( we can dream ! ).

If they actually followed forums like this, they would add:
- ability to turn off ASD all together
- turn signal config options
- wired CarPlay/AA alongside wireless for those that want to use a cable
- more connected drive apps, or allow 3rd party developers to make them ( they are only react / JavaScript apps after all )
- more ambient colours
- more configurable kombi
- any of other other obvious things people use BimmerCode for, outside of m specific features, that for obvious reasons they will keep for M card
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      02-24-2021, 11:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
It is a real shit show for owners like me though who are on the bastard child of MY2020 with iDrive 7 "lite". We have a platform built for frequent updates that we can't obtain so we will have a harder time getting bugs addressed. But I've learned BMW sort of hates us. A shame as it really soiled the brand for me since I feel like a bastard child on my first BMW which was an ordered car I aimed to own long term.
My Nov 19 530e is my first and last BMW as I too feel very short changed having been totally misled when I ordered it. I change my cars very regularly (from new) and so BMW have lost future sales as I don’t feel I can trust them to provide what is being marketed. The dealer has done everything they could, but BMW simply don’t care about customer satisfaction. Their position is that despite the 2019 marketing material, UK Customer Service and dealers all being misled / being misleading by all saying that the ID7 being installed would be regularly updated ‘ota’, they now say that the necessary dealer updates have to be paid for - great, so they lied about ota being part of ID7 lite and expect regular updates (mostly rectifying software defects) to be paid for. All I see is Press Announcements saying the great improvements being pushed out to all ID7 cars but in small print only certain ones. Just marketing hype. I bet the introduction of ID8 will be the same fiasco with ‘early adopters’ having ID8 Lite and the numerous issues as I did. Hence I am not interested in ordering a new BMW

My replacement car is due early May and I can’t wait to be rid of my one and only BMW. Apologies for the lengthy rant !
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      02-25-2021, 08:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wivenhoe View Post
My Nov 19 530e is my first and last BMW as I too feel very short changed having been totally misled when I ordered it. I change my cars very regularly (from new) and so BMW have lost future sales as I don’t feel I can trust them to provide what is being marketed. The dealer has done everything they could, but BMW simply don’t care about customer satisfaction. Their position is that despite the 2019 marketing material, UK Customer Service and dealers all being misled / being misleading by all saying that the ID7 being installed would be regularly updated ‘ota’, they now say that the necessary dealer updates have to be paid for - great, so they lied about ota being part of ID7 lite and expect regular updates (mostly rectifying software defects) to be paid for. All I see is Press Announcements saying the great improvements being pushed out to all ID7 cars but in small print only certain ones. Just marketing hype. I bet the introduction of ID8 will be the same fiasco with ‘early adopters’ having ID8 Lite and the numerous issues as I did. Hence I am not interested in ordering a new BMW

My replacement car is due early May and I can’t wait to be rid of my one and only BMW. Apologies for the lengthy rant !
Well said. I just picked up a 2020 540 XI in Canada and feel short changed due to the ID7 Lite. No Android auto and the dealers are looking to charge $350 CAD plus tax to upgrade. Go figure!!
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      02-25-2021, 09:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wivenhoe View Post
My Nov 19 530e is my first and last BMW as I too feel very short changed having been totally misled when I ordered it. I change my cars very regularly (from new) and so BMW have lost future sales as I don’t feel I can trust them to provide what is being marketed. The dealer has done everything they could, but BMW simply don’t care about customer satisfaction. Their position is that despite the 2019 marketing material, UK Customer Service and dealers all being misled / being misleading by all saying that the ID7 being installed would be regularly updated ‘ota’, they now say that the necessary dealer updates have to be paid for - great, so they lied about ota being part of ID7 lite and expect regular updates (mostly rectifying software defects) to be paid for. All I see is Press Announcements saying the great improvements being pushed out to all ID7 cars but in small print only certain ones. Just marketing hype. I bet the introduction of ID8 will be the same fiasco with ‘early adopters’ having ID8 Lite and the numerous issues as I did. Hence I am not interested in ordering a new BMW

My replacement car is due early May and I can’t wait to be rid of my one and only BMW. Apologies for the lengthy rant !
Well said. I really don't get or understand BMW. The lying to customers spending as much as we are on cars is wild as it only harms the brand long term.

Especially since they knee capped us on MY2020 and did the LCI with "full" iDrive 7 in MY2021. What were they hoping to accomplish by making people like us swear off the brand?

I get pissed every time I look at the manual and it refers to features that aren't even on our cars due to iDrive 7 "lite" both in the digital and printed manuals. It just shows their lack of respect for their customers even at this price point.

I'll be keeping my car for a few more years yet, but my next car won't be a BMW.
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      02-25-2021, 09:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Well said. I really don't get or understand BMW. The lying to customers spending as much as we are on cars is wild as it only harms the brand long term.

Especially since they knee capped us on MY2020 and did the LCI with "full" iDrive 7 in MY2021. What were they hoping to accomplish by making people like us swear off the brand?

I get pissed every time I look at the manual and it refers to features that aren't even on our cars due to iDrive 7 "lite" both in the digital and printed manuals. It just shows their lack of respect for their customers even at this price point.

I'll be keeping my car for a few more years yet, but my next car won't be a BMW.
I thought someone on this forum or on Bimmerfest was looking to a class action lawsuit?
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      02-25-2021, 12:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mffarrell View Post
I thought someone on this forum or on Bimmerfest was looking to a class action lawsuit?
Yeah there was. I haven't heard any movement on that front.

I am inclined to think we should form a small group of members and drive the point home.
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      02-25-2021, 01:49 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mffarrell View Post
I thought someone on this forum or on Bimmerfest was looking to a class action lawsuit?
Yeah there was. I haven't heard any movement on that front.

I am inclined to think we should form a small group of members and drive the point home.
Nobody should have to pay for a software update.just go in; say Bluetooth isn't working or CarPlay and they will update it for free at any reasonable dealer as it's in warranty
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      02-25-2021, 03:45 PM   #16
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You shouldn’t have to lie to get an update which they sold as being regular ota - lying put the dealer in a spot if Deutschland say it must be charged. Besides, why should I have to lose time in taking the car in for updates that should be available on my drive.
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