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      10-02-2016, 09:10 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535DMSport View Post
The E60 is the most ugly 5 series BMW ever produced lol. It really needed an M-sport trim to hide it's aesthetic failures. Chris Bangle is the biggest failure in terms of design, look at the hideous E65/E66.
I agree, those were absolutely hideous. The 7 had the famous bangle butt, also atrocious..but it was rectified somewhat during the LCI. In general people discounted it but they saw sales increase and the competition copy them on hard chines, and other styling elements. I hate to say it but Audi is even worse than BMW imo, I can hardly tell a a3 from a4 and a4 from a6.
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      10-02-2016, 10:42 AM   #90
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Besides the E60 and early iterations of the E65 (trunk and headlights in particular) all of Bangle's designs looked great to me.
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      10-02-2016, 10:43 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Unfortunately I have to agree, the F01 is a good looking large sedan but the new sevener is both awkward and generic looking. I'm no fan of the F10 as a sport sedan but it's a handsome car, if the G30 has a similar exterior transformation as the sevener it will be disappointing. The huge grills are awful and the combination of a rounded upright front make the overhang look too big for an rwd car, especially a BMW. It's an awkward thing and not awkward good as the E60 which still had that BMW sporty lowslung short front overhang.
I found the F01 to be incredibly bland as well, inside and out. It was pure toast by the time the W222 arrived.

Nobody is a worse offender than Audi however, as the A8 is one of the most emotionless luxury cars on the road. It is an absolutely forgettable automobile.
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      10-02-2016, 01:12 PM   #92
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Can't be worse than the E60. Although personally I still like the F10 the most
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      10-02-2016, 01:42 PM   #93
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BMW's design language moves at a snails pace these days. The company is very conservative although the odd bit of brilliance like the i8 shines through some dull models.

BMW could always overcome this with exceptional engines compared with the competition but these days Audi and Merc are on a par. Indeed in the performance end the competition is getting ahead on sheer bhp. 395 bhp in the Audi A3 next year and a TTRS matching a 458 to 60 in 3.5 secs!!

I love my BMW's but I think they have spread themselves too thinly and it shows in their core products

Ultimate Driving Machine? Maybe no longer the case. I hope the new 5 drives better than it looks
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      10-02-2016, 03:11 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKRAPOVICOWNS View Post
While the other OP didn't get too deep into details of the car, it offered the first impressions that a regular person had of the car for the first time, both interior and exterior. I find that relevant.

Now I really don't understand why he would be biased for owning an f10, after all, most people moving to the g30 will come from the f10. There's no reason to be biased, I guess it's just his personal opinion.
It's not so much people moving from F10 to G30, but people who have only owned a F10 prior. E39, E60 owners who went through the model transitions before will be more likely to know a 5 series as a 5 series based on other things than certain physical features. They were all great cars and this new one will also be a great car.
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      10-02-2016, 03:13 PM   #95
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First thing that comes to mind seeing that picture? Audi.

Barf. I'll pickup a used F10 535i in a year for dirt cheap.
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      10-02-2016, 03:31 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
LOL it's not none sense. It's a subjective notice and like me and most people I know who are into BMW's 95% agree that the E60 wasn't one of BMW's best designs. It looked awful when it came out and it hasn't aged well at all. Pretty is definitely not one of its traits.
It is nonsense for it is a precursor to the expansion of stupidity generated by social media. Anyone can act like an untrained Chimp and get a social media account and all of a sudden they are a personality.
It is nonsense about the 2000 era BMWs also as they done the job to move BMW ahead of its competitors and bring forth intelligent conversation about design.
And it worked. The E60 has the ability to turn heads even today because it still looks fresh. Same goes for the Z4 which is becoming a modern classic.
Design was not only pioneering but opinionated. It changed the entire industry.
BMW had to change it was a risk, a risk some may never forget about and its a risk no one else today will ever take.
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      10-02-2016, 04:02 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
LOL it's not none sense. It's a subjective notice and like me and most people I know who are into BMW's 95% agree that the E60 wasn't one of BMW's best designs. It looked awful when it came out and it hasn't aged well at all. Pretty is definitely not one of its traits.
It is nonsense for it is a precursor to the expansion of stupidity generated by social media. Anyone can act like an untrained Chimp and get a social media account and all of a sudden they are a personality.
It is nonsense about the 2000 era BMWs also as they done the job to move BMW ahead of its competitors and bring forth intelligent conversation about design.
And it worked. The E60 has the ability to turn heads even today because it still looks fresh. Same goes for the Z4 which is becoming a modern classic.
Design was not only pioneering but opinionated. It changed the entire industry.
BMW had to change it was a risk, a risk some may never forget about and its a risk no one else today will ever take.
LOL keep telling yourself that. And keep trying to convince the majority of people who own BMWs who miss what BMW were in the 90's.
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      10-02-2016, 05:35 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
LOL keep telling yourself that. And keep trying to convince the majority of people who own BMWs who miss what BMW were in the 90's.
I am sure we kept a lot of existing customers happy but also gained a hell of a lot of new customers.
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      10-02-2016, 05:40 PM   #99
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I may be in the minority, but I love the E60. When it came out I wasn't crazy about it, but as time goes on, I really appreciate what the e60 offers. It's such a great car to drive.
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      10-02-2016, 07:50 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
LOL keep telling yourself that. And keep trying to convince the majority of people who own BMWs who miss what BMW were in the 90's.
I am sure we kept a lot of existing customers happy but also gained a hell of a lot of new customers.
Good luck keeping that up. You can rest on your laurels for only so long. The lack of winning comparison tests, the 5-series no longer being on Car and Drivers 10 best list as the E39 did for all of its production, shows that BMWs direction has changed and upper management doesn't seem to care. The E39 and E38 were amazing cars, where as the new 7 and the current 5 are just blah to drive.
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      10-02-2016, 08:05 PM   #101
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Wait

Wait, so base model will have halogen headlights as standard instead of HID Xenon headlight?
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      10-02-2016, 09:18 PM   #102
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thanks for write up. Looking forward to the new M5 as well!
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      10-02-2016, 10:02 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It is nonsense for it is a precursor to the expansion of stupidity generated by social media. Anyone can act like an untrained Chimp and get a social media account and all of a sudden they are a personality.
It is nonsense about the 2000 era BMWs also as they done the job to move BMW ahead of its competitors and bring forth intelligent conversation about design.
And it worked. The E60 has the ability to turn heads even today because it still looks fresh. Same goes for the Z4 which is becoming a modern classic.
Design was not only pioneering but opinionated. It changed the entire industry.
BMW had to change it was a risk, a risk some may never forget about and its a risk no one else today will ever take.
I agree with this. It was innovative and daring German design which is very unusual among the car companies since they tend to be as conservative as Bavaria. Unmistakingly BMW and German with their Teutonic/Bauhaus styling but the change was huge from the E39, it really was a very different and fresh design and the E60 is a great handler as well. Nothing from the competition came remotely close in driving dynamics not even their 3 series segment cars could match it IMO and their cars of that era looks Stone Age today while the E60 looks rather fresh still. The Z4 also fixed the fugly Z3 and made it something a man could drive.

Last edited by solstice; 10-02-2016 at 10:40 PM..
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      10-02-2016, 11:57 PM   #104
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I belive there is a reason why "everyone" talks about the E39 era, and not about the E6* age.
The E39 was that good, and it is a classic, then the E6* came along, very different from the old E39.
It's safe to say that E6* hasn't aged so well, as it's predessecor, but i think it was a model that was "needed" somehow.
At this stage BMW are moving to conservatism again, the E39 fanboys should be happy, not sad. The G3* looks like a baby 7, let's see how it comes out.
BMW are playing it carefully these days, next generation perhaps?
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      10-03-2016, 01:27 AM   #105
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Agreed; but why was this era short?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It is nonsense for it is a precursor to the expansion of stupidity generated by social media. Anyone can act like an untrained Chimp and get a social media account and all of a sudden they are a personality.
It is nonsense about the 2000 era BMWs also as they done the job to move BMW ahead of its competitors and bring forth intelligent conversation about design.
And it worked. The E60 has the ability to turn heads even today because it still looks fresh. Same goes for the Z4 which is becoming a modern classic.
Design was not only pioneering but opinionated. It changed the entire industry.
BMW had to change it was a risk, a risk some may never forget about and its a risk no one else today will ever take.
I agree. The design direction of BMW needs to find a new step to see off competition that seems intent on outshining them in form at least. The substance may work but the styling needs to stand out more inside and out in today's cars.
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      10-03-2016, 01:30 AM   #106
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That's the internet factor!

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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Always astounds me and colleagues in Munich on how people can give a final impression based on an artists rendering which is so far from the finished article that they can judge the car from that?
It is easy to knock out opinions when you are sitting at home in your jammies. Trolls and all that.
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      10-03-2016, 02:56 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It is nonsense for it is a precursor to the expansion of stupidity generated by social media. Anyone can act like an untrained Chimp and get a social media account and all of a sudden they are a personality.
It is nonsense about the 2000 era BMWs also as they done the job to move BMW ahead of its competitors and bring forth intelligent conversation about design.
And it worked. The E60 has the ability to turn heads even today because it still looks fresh. Same goes for the Z4 which is becoming a modern classic.
Design was not only pioneering but opinionated. It changed the entire industry.
BMW had to change it was a risk, a risk some may never forget about and its a risk no one else today will ever take.
I agree with this. It was innovative and daring German design which is very unusual among the car companies since they tend to be as conservative as Bavaria. Unmistakingly BMW and German with their Teutonic/Bauhaus styling but the change was huge from the E39, it really was a very different and fresh design and the E60 is a great handler as well. Nothing from the competition came remotely close in driving dynamics not even their 3 series segment cars could match it IMO and their cars of that era looks Stone Age today while the E60 looks rather fresh still. The Z4 also fixed the fugly Z3 and made it something a man could drive.
Whatever anyone's view of the bangle era cars no one can deny they are striking. They seem to age better than other brands (with the exception of the 7er which looks the emoji ?). I don't deny that pre bangle cars are attractive but something about this era, in particular the e90 I think will become very appealing as they approach classic age
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      10-03-2016, 03:03 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
Good luck keeping that up. You can rest on your laurels for only so long. The lack of winning comparison tests, the 5-series no longer being on Car and Drivers 10 best list as the E39 did for all of its production, shows that BMWs direction has changed and upper management doesn't seem to care. The E39 and E38 were amazing cars, where as the new 7 and the current 5 are just blah to drive.
We initiated a research project to determine whether people actually use car reviews to purchase cars. Thankfully they do not. Because as above winning comparisons do not matter. When you win more prestigious awards in relation to your business. BMW again crowned worlds most green manufacturer then a wider majority of people take attention.

Comparison tests to my self and others do not matter especially when driven by a "personality" and especially when a sneezing panda could do a better job and gain a wider audience. Today comparison tests are driven by advertising more than marketing. Which is why BMW do a lot of internal advertising especially by launching the new 5er as the key car in the return of the next cycle of BMW Films series.

In regards to no one cares?
BMW like other businesses have to adapt to an ever changing industry, therefore technology and drivetrain technology are very much at the forefront now of how cars are developed. Drivers habits change as does preference. The 5er might be called a mini 7er but what's starts at the top filters downwards in regard to the expectant customer who wants those features. The F10 is still the best in its class as the business class mid-level sedan. Its success is down entirely to be all things competent as does the 3er. Our key volume markets are driven by the need to be competent in those segments.

The new 5er and its ability to remain competent is very much apparent. It has a wide range of abilities to keep the car at the forefront of today's requirements.
Whether you are a driver,gadget admirer or even someone that uses the car for the long distance business trips city to city via the Autobahn. Then the 5er will be the car you expect it to be in every guise from the 520d to the 540i even the 540e. Of course performance will not be ignored in the M550,M550d,M550e and of course the all new M5. And depending on where you are in the world? A new 5er Touring.

The new 7er is no way blah to drive. Its very dynamic, direct and the aid of the Carbon Core makes the car feel smaller than it is. In an S-Klasse the weight becomes apparent. It might not have the S-Klasses refinement. But BMW want owners to drive the 7er not rejuvenate in the back.
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      10-03-2016, 03:40 AM   #109
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People can say what they want about Bangle...designs under him were ahead of their time.

All you needed to do was look around the auto industry after the E65 and E60 came out to see their design influence on other brands.

The so called Bangle Butt of the E65 was adopted in multiple forms by other brands.

I had an E60 and got a lot of compliments on it.
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      10-03-2016, 04:50 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine535Msport View Post
Good luck keeping that up. You can rest on your laurels for only so long. The lack of winning comparison tests, the 5-series no longer being on Car and Drivers 10 best list as the E39 did for all of its production, shows that BMWs direction has changed and upper management doesn't seem to care. The E39 and E38 were amazing cars, where as the new 7 and the current 5 are just blah to drive.
We initiated a research project to determine whether people actually use car reviews to purchase cars. Thankfully they do not. Because as above winning comparisons do not matter. When you win more prestigious awards in relation to your business. BMW again crowned worlds most green manufacturer then a wider majority of people take attention.

Comparison tests to my self and others do not matter especially when driven by a "personality" and especially when a sneezing panda could do a better job and gain a wider audience. Today comparison tests are driven by advertising more than marketing. Which is why BMW do a lot of internal advertising especially by launching the new 5er as the key car in the return of the next cycle of BMW Films series.

In regards to no one cares?
BMW like other businesses have to adapt to an ever changing industry, therefore technology and drivetrain technology are very much at the forefront now of how cars are developed. Drivers habits change as does preference. The 5er might be called a mini 7er but what's starts at the top filters downwards in regard to the expectant customer who wants those features. The F10 is still the best in its class as the business class mid-level sedan. Its success is down entirely to be all things competent as does the 3er. Our key volume markets are driven by the need to be competent in those segments.

The new 5er and its ability to remain competent is very much apparent. It has a wide range of abilities to keep the car at the forefront of today's requirements.
Whether you are a driver,gadget admirer or even someone that uses the car for the long distance business trips city to city via the Autobahn. Then the 5er will be the car you expect it to be in every guise from the 520d to the 540i even the 540e. Of course performance will not be ignored in the M550,M550d,M550e and of course the all new M5. And depending on where you are in the world? A new 5er Touring.

The new 7er is no way blah to drive. Its very dynamic, direct and the aid of the Carbon Core makes the car feel smaller than it is. In an S-Klasse the weight becomes apparent. It might not have the S-Klasses refinement. But BMW want owners to drive the 7er not rejuvenate in the back.
Of course some people use comparison reviews to help the purchase process. Buyers will look at reviews on reliability some might be influenced by write ups on green credentials. Others might be influenced by what certain test drivers say. In the U.K people like Chris Harris have an influence in the performance car sector etc etc

Others will be influenced by social media especially when looking for the best finance etc


Always a worry when corporate people are so defensive usually means the business is under pressure and not in listening mode !
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