[2022M550i]

Yep, another ship fire. I wouldn’t feel comfortable keeping one of these in my garage. I guess I’m extra cautious. Great for the environment. No carbon emissions here…. move along.

https://europe.autonews.com/automake...s-still-ablaze

[AP]

I wouldn’t like to be the owner of a roll on roll of ship fleet. Their insurance premiums will undoubtedly increase at renewal.

There is very much a concern about lithium batteries in general. Int he U.K. you cannot take them with e scooters on the undergound nor on trains ( or the stations for that matter)

[LogicalApex]

There were only 500 EVs on the ship and over 3000 gas cars. Any one of those cars could have sparked the fire…

Any car in an enclosed garage is a fire hazard.

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/N...hiclefires.pdf

That source looked at highway fires in ICE cars at over 212k in 2018! For instance…

Car transport ship fires aren’t a new thing that just appeared due to EVs…

But I get it. It is easier to look for nuggets that can be used as confirmation bias affirming material.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by AP

I wouldn’t like to be the owner of a roll on roll of ship fleet. Their insurance premiums will undoubtedly increase at renewal.

There is very much a concern about lithium batteries in general. Int he U.K. you cannot take them with e scooters on the undergound nor on trains ( or the stations for that matter)

The bans on eScooters in various area and the like are driven by cheap batteries and battery management systems from China. Those systems skimp on proper safety systems due to cost (like proper temperature regulation of the cells, etc.). They are a serious fire hazard.

It is the same with how you have reports of iPhone's catching fire and they are always using aftermarket "cheap" batteries...

Lithium Ion devices are safe when properly built. No one is concerned about having an iPhone in their pocket even though if it experienced a thermal runway event they'll lose that leg in seconds. We also don't see reports of this...

I wouldn't lump EVs in the same bucket as eScooters...

[2022M550i]

Lets face it. EV’s suck. The juice isnt wirth the squeeze. Do an end to end carbon analysis. Pipe dream.

Strategically, why would any country in their right mind want to be dependent on one energy source?… a more centralized one at that. You’re a strategic thinker logical. Let’s hear it.

[silverydragon72]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

There were only 500 EVs on the ship and over 3000 gas cars. Any one of those cars could have sparked the fire…

Any car in an enclosed garage is a fire hazard.

https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/N...hiclefires.pdf

That source looked at highway fires in ICE cars at over 212k in 2018! For instance…

Car transport ship fires aren’t a new thing that just appeared due to EVs…

But I get it. It is easier to look for nuggets that can be used as confirmation bias affirming material.

ICE cars are significantly easier to put out which is the difference. The EV fires get out of control quickly and are hard to put out/contain which is why they loose the entire ship vs a smaller amount.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

There were only 500 EVs on the ship and over 3000 gas cars. Any one of those cars could have sparked the fire….

ICE fire won't be burning after 2 weeks but yeah we will never know

apparently witnesses on board claim it is EV fire

anti EV say that's true, pro EV say unverified



just think of the poor children mining the materials for the batteries

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by g21

ICE fire won't be burning after 2 weeks but yeah we will never know

apparently witnesses on board claim it is EV fire

anti EV say that's true, pro EV say unverified



just think of the poor children mining the materials for the batteries

It's true. It was a Mercedes EV.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by 2022M550i

Lets face it. EV’s suck. The juice isnt wirth the squeeze. Do an end to end carbon analysis. Pipe dream.

Strategically, why would any country in their right mind want to be dependent on one energy source?… a more centralized one at that. You’re a strategic thinker logical. Let’s hear it.

One energy source? EVs are dependent on electricity which can be generated in countless ways.

ICE cars are dependent on gas which is literally a single fuel source.

I can understand not being a fan of EVs for reasons like not understanding them or valid critiques of current limitations around the technology and/or charging infrastructure...

The real critique of EVs is solely in the battery raw materials currently. Until we are able to properly and efficiently recycle used batteries we will face the real potential to hit a ceiling on capacity to manufacture new cars. That's a more logical discussion point.

For consumers, EVs are worth the squeeze as they line up perfectly well with the evolving use of cars and technology. We expect cars with more and more technology such that cars aren't in binary states anymore. We expect the car to always be on now so it can capture a recording of the bozo who backs into it and runs off or so it can be up to date and ready to drive as soon as we are ready to go (and at the right climate temperature too!). ICE cars will struggle to live up to that new standard.

There are many old people who thought the death of the flip phone and the transition to smartphones were silly too. No real advantages and too darn expensive. Oh, and you can't even replace the battery on the darn thing! Fast forward almost 20 years and the way we use cell phones has radically changed.

But irrespective of your love or hate for EVs as a technology. That doesn't make a container ship fire "proof of their inferiority".

Originally Posted by silverydragon72

ICE cars are significantly easier to put out which is the difference. The EV fires get out of control quickly and are hard to put out/contain which is why they loose the entire ship vs a smaller amount.

Agreed, Lithium Ion batteries are a serious challenge from a fire fighting perspective. Especially since water is an accelerant for lithium battery fires.

But gas cars can still lead to the loss of ships and pose serious firefighting challenges. We had a container ship fire off Newark, NJ last month that killed two firefighters from the city of Newark FD and was uncontrollable for days because the fuel in each cars gas tank would ignite and explode as the fire spread. And that ship had zero EVs on board!

https://6abc.com/fire-newark-nj-port...ters/13472759/

Originally Posted by g21

ICE fire won't be burning after 2 weeks but yeah we will never know

apparently witnesses on board claim it is EV fire

anti EV say that's true, pro EV say unverified



just think of the poor children mining the materials for the batteries

My unverified statement was simply due to that's what the article states. The authorities haven't said the source of the fire yet. I try to stick to facts and not speculation.

[SonD]

Meanwhile - over this side of the pond, our PM pushes for greater expansion of what oil is left around our shores, oddly, just before his farther in laws firm gets a huge contract with BP - go figure.

If we do not push forward with battery tech (massive advances are happening, it's scaling them for mass production that is the more difficult part) - then I guess we get to see the world burn instead.
YMMV of course.

[AP]

I’d hear about this previously but soidium batteries might be a viable alternative
I do wonder if we look back in the bit too distant future and see lithium as a short interim technology that was adopted


https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/22...ars-this-year/

[G30M]

Originally Posted by AP

I’d hear about this previously but soidium batteries might be a viable alternative
I do wonder if we look back in the bit too distant future and see lithium as a short interim technology that was adopted


https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/22...ars-this-year/

sodium and lithium should be the same flammability. it's the cation that makes the difference not the anion.

disclaimer: not a battery chemical engineer

[G30M]

if worried get LFP. supposedly also less degradation

[AP]

Didn’t realise sodium was at the same risk as lithium potentially

The resources are easier to get though

[SonD]

There are way more technologies that are being investigated. As said above, we are at a stop gap for now.
Remember steam v diesel v electric trains?


https://gomechanic.in/blog/how-carbo...0catch%20fire.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by AP

Didn’t realise sodium was at the same risk as lithium potentially

The resources are easier to get though

[AP]

Wow

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

One energy source? EVs are dependent on electricity which can be generated in countless ways.
. . .
I try to stick to facts and not speculation.

This was a rational, intelligent and meaningful post. It has no place on an internet forum.

BAN HIM!

[Mike 540]

back to the EV ship that caught fire - Just today I have read in the news that when the rescue got on the ship they claimed all EV´s were intact. They were all loaded on a deck which was intact. No cause of fire was stated though.
But IMHO, that will not change my opinion on EVs - they suck anyways. EVs should be small cars used to travel in the city, not a family car which will you can depend on and which will take you anytime and anyplace...

[2022M550i]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

This was a rational, intelligent and meaningful post. It has no place on an internet forum.

BAN HIM!

Eh? He should name the countless ways that WE generate electricity.

[2022M550i]

Originally Posted by Mike 540

back to the EV ship that caught fire - Just today I have read in the news that when the rescue got on the ship they claimed all EV´s were intact. They were all loaded on a deck which was intact. No cause of fire was stated though.
But IMHO, that will not change my opinion on EVs - they suck anyways. EVs should be small cars used to travel in the city, not a family car which will you can depend on and which will take you anytime and anyplace...

They do suck….but i’m ok if you want own one…dont shove that shit down my throat.

No one can show me an analysis as to exactly when all this change to EV’s is going to help the environment. Not one. Specifically when is the globe going to start cooling? When is the climate going to stop changing? How much is all this going to reduce the global carbon emissions? Not one study. It’s a bunch of horseshit.

Where I come from, if you make an investment, you need to have a measurable outcome. There is nothing to measure in this instance.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by 2022M550i

Eh? He should name the countless ways that WE generate electricity.

Are you referring to your natural gas emissions?