[rothwem]

I've currently got an E91, and I've owned owned E9x chassis cars since 2009. This E91 is an awesome awesome car, but I keep fixing little things and it's making me annoyed as a daily driver. I've got little kids, and I don't really have a lot of time to work on a car. I kinda want something newer so I can have a few years of peace in exchange for a car payment.

I've been seeing CPO G20's go for high 20s, low 30s around here, and that's square in the price range I'm targeting. I haven't driven one yet, but I've sat in them at the dealer--the ergos seem really great and the size is perfect--just a smidge bigger feeling than an E39. I'd definitely prefer a wagon, but this is America and we can't have anything nice here.

Is there anything that's a "fatal flaw" in these? I'm obviously interested in reliability--I'm cross shopping Lexus IS3xx's too, but the 350s are more expensive than the G20's and the 300/200t models are supposed to be really boring to drive. But most of all, I kinda like BMW and they (usually) seem to design things in a way that makes sense to me.

So, maybe talk me into or out of a G20? It'll be mostly used for daily driving and daycare runs, occasional road trips if the kids aren't with me (I've got a rental property 3.5 hours away). I live in Asheville too, so we've got lots of twisty roads and good handling is a must. What do you guys think?

[whyzee125]

The guy I bought my e90 from replaced it with a g20 m340i. He said it’s basically a better car in every way but less fun. He enjoyed modding the e90 but the g20 is so good right out of the box that aside from a downpipe and tune, nothing really made it “better” than it was. It’s more isolated but definitely rides better. The steering is precise but lacks some feel. Better than f30 from what I’ve heard though.

From what I know the new engines are very reliable but I’d definitely get one with a b58 if you can. Sorry that’s not super first hand but it’s what I do know

[tturedraider]

Yea to an M340i. Nay to a 330i that isn’t an M Sport.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yea to an M340i. Nay to a 330i that isn’t an M Sport.

This might be a dumb question, but beyond the motor/acceleration, is anything different between the two cars? I used to ride sportbikes back in the day and now everything feels slow in comparison (except for Teslas, but I’m not interested in owning one). Really all I need is a good chassis and enough power that it can be rotated on the throttle and not hunt for gears while on the highway. My E91 is plenty fast enough for me with 230hp and 3500 pounds.

Fwiw, the 330e has me a little bit intrigued. I have a short commute to work and it would be cool if I could do the whole drive on EV mode.

[tdott]

You should be aware of the plastic oil pump issue.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2011819

[tracer bullet]

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/

There's a section of the forums for this car you might get responses from.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/

There's a section of the forums for this car you might get responses from.

Yeah, I know there's a G20 section. I was hoping to get input from lots of different BMW drivers, not just recent G20 purchasers hoping to justify their actions. Its hard to get an honest opinion in that situation.

[freakystyly]

The newer car will feel more isolated from the outside, sterile and boat-like compared to the E90. And I'm talking about my F22 2 series here... not even a G20. That's just how they are these days. Test drive if you haven't yet. Electric power steering is always the biggest let down coming from the E chassis.

As far as reliability, the engines are the best they've ever been. I can't speak for the hybrid version, that's newish territory for BMW.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by rothwem

I've currently got an E91, and I've owned owned E9x chassis cars since 2009. This E91 is an awesome awesome car, but I keep fixing little things and it's making me annoyed as a daily driver. I've got little kids, and I don't really have a lot of time to work on a car. I kinda want something newer so I can have a few years of peace in exchange for a car payment.

I've been seeing CPO G20's go for high 20s, low 30s around here, and that's square in the price range I'm targeting. I haven't driven one yet, but I've sat in them at the dealer—the ergos seem really great and the size is perfect—just a smidge bigger feeling than an E39. I'd definitely prefer a wagon, but this is America and we can't have anything nice here.

Is there anything that's a "fatal flaw" in these? I'm obviously interested in reliability—I'm cross shopping Lexus IS3xx's too, but the 350s are more expensive than the G20's and the 300/200t models are supposed to be really boring to drive. But most of all, I kinda like BMW and they (usually) seem to design things in a way that makes sense to me.

So, maybe talk me into or out of a G20? It'll be mostly used for daily driving and daycare runs, occasional road trips if the kids aren't with me (I've got a rental property 3.5 hours away). I live in Asheville too, so we've got lots of twisty roads and good handling is a must. What do you guys think?

Oil filter housing is plastic and mounted at the rear of the engine with the rest of the timing gear.

Multiple cooling circuits add additional complexity and failure points.

Louvered grill can be damaged by road strikes and AFIW when no longer functioning requires full replacement.

The amount of shit in the way is unmatched compared to any previous gen I6/I4.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by rothwem

I was hoping to get input from lots of different BMW drivers, not just recent G20 purchasers hoping to justify their actions.

Yeah, maybe. I know at least in the 135i section, all the owners love their cars but will also tell you all the things that go wrong with them as well. Maybe each car's forum has its peculiarities. Can't say which way the G20 group would go, never been an owner.

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Oil filter housing is plastic and mounted at the rear of the engine with the rest of the timing gear.

Multiple cooling circuits add additional complexity and failure points.

Louvered grill can be damaged by road strikes and AFIW when no longer functioning requires full replacement.

The amount of shit in the way is unmatched compared to any previous gen I6/I4.

Damn, plastic OFH? Has it been holding up okay? Its weird, the Germans pioneered plastics back in the 1800's but the plastic shit on BMW's has traditionally not been their strong point.

Sounds like it might be better to go with an I4 on this one, an emptier engine bay is typically easier to work on.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Damn, plastic OFH? Has it been holding up okay? Its weird, the Germans pioneered plastics back in the 1800's but the plastic shit on BMW's has traditionally not been their strong point.

Sounds like it might be better to go with an I4 on this one, an emptier engine bay is typically easier to work on.

Same deal with the I4.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Damn, plastic OFH? Has it been holding up okay? Its weird, the Germans pioneered plastics back in the 1800's but the plastic shit on BMW's has traditionally not been their strong point.

Sounds like it might be better to go with an I4 on this one, an emptier engine bay is typically easier to work on.

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Same deal with the I4.

???

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

???

He's saying that the I4 has a plastic oil filter housing just like the I6.

My thought was that hopefully the I4 is easier to replace that housing, but likely its not, probably pushed up against the firewall just as hard.

[CSBM5]

I can't really comment on an older G20 nor the four cylinder engine, but if you have any specific questions about the M340i let me know. We recently ordered and received a 2024 M340i for my wife's car. She had been driving our M2C and E91 mostly prior to that. I sold my E90 M3 after it had appreciated a lot over the past few years to make garage room. The difference between the E91 and the new M340i is night and day and hard to cover all the changes/updates/etc.

It's on track performance is what sold us on the M340i even though we aren't going to use it for autox or track (I've got the M2C for that). Living so close to the Performance Center, I've been to many events there and twice during 2023 I was able to drive an M340i in the rat race (wet oval, rough pavement, competition vs other car) and hot lapping. I'm not easily impressed with track performance (been autocrossing and track driving since the 1970s), but the M340i far exceeded my expectations. Yes EPS is lacking tactical feel, but if you let go of former internal programming and pay attention to what it provides approaching/at/over the limits of adhesion up front, it's fine imo. I spent four hours on the Michelin 1/2 mile skidpad learning the intricacies of the EPS on the M2C shortly after buying it, and it does take some internal programming rewiring lol. The M-LSD is also fantastic, and we'd have never bought the car without one (like former non-M 3-series where they always had an open diff, well in the past 35 years anyway, and prior versions implemented the braking on one side kludge attempt to limit wheelspin).

So it was the ability to lay down some hard laps and also extract the best possible laps in the rat race that won me over to looking at the M340i. I expected the car to be a joke somewhat, and I completely proved myself wrong. Shockingly wrong in fact. We were planning to get a G80 M3 with a 6MT since my wife really didn't want to let go of a driving a manual, but again, the ZF8 in the M340i has been incredible. Given our usage of the car, we're both happy to have chosen the M340i over the 6MT G80 M3 since the S58 is lacking on low end (around town) torque output, and the 6th gear has the engine screaming at 75mph (just like in the M2C). Interestingly, Car and Driver test data shows the M340i faster to 60mph than the 6MT M3 and only 0.2 seconds slower to 100mph (9.4 sec vs 9.2 for the M3).

[Bc2005]

The M340i is a combination that’s hard to beat. 0-60 in about 4 seconds, smooth shifting 8 speed auto, turbo tuning that keeps it in the high torque range nearly all the time, and gas mileage of 32-33 mpg when you take a long drive on the highway.

What you may not like is how smoothly and quietly all this happens with the 2021+ mild hybrid. If you don’t spend money on exhaust or tuning that creates all the exhaust burbles, you will be outrunning Mustang GT’s and Camaros, but cruising as quietly as a Honda Accord. A stock M340i is not for the “look at me and my cool sounding car” crowd.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Bc2005

The M340i is a combination that’s hard to beat. 0-60 in about 4 seconds, smooth shifting 8 speed auto, turbo tuning that keeps it in the high torque range nearly all the time, and gas mileage of 32-33 mpg when you take a long drive on the highway.

What you may not like is how smoothly and quietly all this happens with the 2021+ mild hybrid. If you don’t spend money on exhaust or tuning that creates all the exhaust burbles, you will be outrunning Mustang GT’s and Camaros, but cruising as quietly as a Honda Accord. A stock M340i is not for the “look at me and my cool sounding car” crowd.

In sport or sport+ mode, the exhaust is plenty loud for me anyway. It sounds wicked at each upshift too. Comfort mode and it is much quieter, but I coded the car to start up in last chosen mode, and each of us have set our "Sport Individual" to sport engine mode in order to get away from the start/stop thing in comfort mode (default from factory).

Speaking of burbles and such, the best thing I ever did for my M2C was using bimmerlink/bimmercode to disable all that junk. Now it sounds like a real engine and so much better, especially in sport+ which was a clown-show before every time you let off the accelerator. I also disabled the fake engine sound inside the car which made a huge improvement also. I bought that car new in Sept 2018 (early allocation), and I waited way way too long to do something about that as I enjoy it much more now.

Speaking of gas mileage in the M340i...we just did a 4+ hour each way trip cruising at ~75mph most all the way. Used comfort mode once on the highway too for a quiet exhaust. The car returned 36.8 mpg. Amazing efficiency of this B58 cruising at that speed in 8th gear. Having a 0.27 or 0.28 Cd surely helps too.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Damn, plastic OFH? Has it been holding up okay? Its weird, the Germans pioneered plastics back in the 1800's but the plastic shit on BMW's has traditionally not been their strong point.

Sounds like it might be better to go with an I4 on this one, an emptier engine bay is typically easier to work on.

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Same deal with the I4.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

???

Originally Posted by rothwem

He's saying that the I4 has a plastic oil filter housing just like the I6.

My thought was that hopefully the I4 is easier to replace that housing, but likely its not, probably pushed up against the firewall just as hard.

haha I hate to admit this, but my mind went to the electric i4.

[TonyB58]

Originally Posted by rothwem

I've currently got an E91, and I've owned owned E9x chassis cars since 2009. This E91 is an awesome awesome car, but I keep fixing little things and it's making me annoyed as a daily driver. I've got little kids, and I don't really have a lot of time to work on a car. I kinda want something newer so I can have a few years of peace in exchange for a car payment.

I've been seeing CPO G20's go for high 20s, low 30s around here, and that's square in the price range I'm targeting. I haven't driven one yet, but I've sat in them at the dealer--the ergos seem really great and the size is perfect--just a smidge bigger feeling than an E39. I'd definitely prefer a wagon, but this is America and we can't have anything nice here.

Is there anything that's a "fatal flaw" in these? I'm obviously interested in reliability--I'm cross shopping Lexus IS3xx's too, but the 350s are more expensive than the G20's and the 300/200t models are supposed to be really boring to drive. But most of all, I kinda like BMW and they (usually) seem to design things in a way that makes sense to me.

So, maybe talk me into or out of a G20? It'll be mostly used for daily driving and daycare runs, occasional road trips if the kids aren't with me (I've got a rental property 3.5 hours away). I live in Asheville too, so we've got lots of twisty roads and good handling is a must. What do you guys think?

G20 suspension is absolutely trash, I had two of my rear suspension replaced, front left strut replaced, and two batches of tie rods replaced. (Im not sure about the adaptive suspension)

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by TonyB58

G20 suspension is absolutely trash, I had two of my rear suspension replaced, front left strut replaced, and two batches of tie rods replaced. (Im not sure about the adaptive suspension)

Interesting. Yours is the first post I’ve ever seen with these issues.

[MJBO]

G20 is a good car and a good platform. BMW is making solid reliable cars these days, it’s great to see and experience.

Owned a G01 X3 with the 185kW B48 for nearly five years and it’s been flawless, same with my year old G81 M3.

Shame you guys don’t get the G21, a decent amount of seat time in one was one of the things that convinced me I wanted a wagon.

[TonyB58]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Interesting. Yours is the first post I’ve ever seen with these issues.

The front tie rods are a pretty common issue for all the G models. There is a TSB out for the issue. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...35180-9999.pdf