BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos 2020-202x Toyota Supra

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-27-2019, 04:45 PM   #705
R N M
Colonel
R N M's Avatar
3620
Rep
2,048
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
No it isn't. A Miata is. But a GT86 is a hot mess of bad steering, cheap interior and a huge torque dip at 4,500 rpm that Subie and Toyota refuse to address. It also likes to lean itself out under track use because of the Toyota developed dual mode injection.

It should be a great car, but I've extensively driven both versions both before and after LCI and would take an ND Miata over one every time.
LOL - not sure what you are talking about.

BRZ has amazing steering - direct, quick, consistent and just heavy enough.
I have owned BRZ since 2015 and also have 2018 M3 Comp - BRZ has by far the better steering and closest to what the BMW hydraulic setups were just not as heavy.
The interior of the BRZ is great as well - seating position, seats, steering wheel, shifter, leg room, and visibility. There are ZERO sports cars that can match it.

Handling is incredible- it stays flat in turns and at high speeds, there is no lift.
With stock tires - its not setup for max grip, put a decent set and your laptimes will dramatically improve!
Miata is MUCH smaller inside, i personally cant have a normal seating position and im 5‘11. its also more softly sprung and has very loose steering. I‘m not a fan of it.

Last edited by R N M; 05-27-2019 at 04:51 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 06:15 PM   #706
supra93
Colonel
2474
Rep
2,334
Posts

Drives: Z4, E500, Supra, RX7
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Towards the end she mentions that Europe will be limited to 130 units a month / 1,560 units annually.

Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 07:38 PM   #707
yco
i'm just saying
yco's Avatar
5723
Rep
2,634
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10 (sold)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
Towards the end she mentions that Europe will be limited to 130 units a month / 1,560 units annually.
i guess its for 2020 pre-order..
900 units for 2019 with A90 Euro only version..

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar184253.html ..
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2019, 08:19 PM   #708
WestRace
Major
730
Rep
1,087
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
Towards the end she mentions that Europe will be limited to 130 units a month / 1,560 units annually.
The last time I trusted a blond it costs me 5 years and counting. Pure evil.
Appreciate 1
yco5722.50
      05-28-2019, 03:05 PM   #709
Humdizzle
Brigadier General
6024
Rep
3,610
Posts

Drives: GT3 + M2c
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
LOL - not sure what you are talking about.

BRZ has amazing steering - direct, quick, consistent and just heavy enough.
I have owned BRZ since 2015 and also have 2018 M3 Comp - BRZ has by far the better steering and closest to what the BMW hydraulic setups were just not as heavy.
The interior of the BRZ is great as well - seating position, seats, steering wheel, shifter, leg room, and visibility. There are ZERO sports cars that can match it.

Handling is incredible- it stays flat in turns and at high speeds, there is no lift.
With stock tires - its not setup for max grip, put a decent set and your laptimes will dramatically improve!
Miata is MUCH smaller inside, i personally cant have a normal seating position and im 5‘11. its also more softly sprung and has very loose steering. I‘m not a fan of it.
Agreed. I've had alot of nice sports cars. From a e36 m3 to a GTR to a 458. The brz/86 is grossly under rated for how good it is. It's steering feel is way better than my f80. It's a much more connected experience. Quality > quantity when it comes to performance

Even the engineering explained guy drove the supra and 86 back to back and said the 86 was more fun
__________________

2018 Porsche GT3 6MT
2021 M2C DCT
Previous: Ferrari 458 | R35 GTR | F80 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | Scion FRS
Appreciate 1
TomAce67.00
      05-28-2019, 03:33 PM   #710
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Using modern BMW ZF EPS feel as a benchmark is sort of like using Cadillac's median buyer age to talk about how woke your buyers are. I stand by BRZ steering feel sucking. Extensive road and track time with them does not impress me.

The rumor has been that Subaru had a decent setup in place to take advantage of the low center of gravity and rearward engine placement and then Toyota's dual mode injection and some other engineering snafus forced the motor to be mounted further forward than intended, causing the steering rack to move forward and the steering arms to be in the front, rather than the rear of the front calipers, the ideal setup.

Reviews of the current WRX and STI have commented how they have better steering feel than the BRZ. That's just sad. I of course haven't driven the Zupra, and realize it will have BMW's take on ZF EPS, but I'd hope it has better steering than the GT86.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2019, 05:24 PM   #711
TXSTYLE
"Salud"
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
13653
Rep
4,662
Posts

Drives: F01 & F15 / Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

Toyota under rating it's true POWER???

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
__________________
https://i.imgur.com/QAMZNzQ.jpg
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2019, 10:02 PM   #712
M Coupe
Private
M Coupe's Avatar
97
Rep
87
Posts

Drives: S54 M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
Toyota under rating it's true POWER???

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
Yes!

Now why does your username sound familiar to me? Houston-Imports?
__________________
Current: 20 X3MC[]19 GT-R[]17 M2[]18 TACO[]17 WRX[]14 T4R LTD&SR5[]12 NV2500[]07 Exige S[]07 S2k[]05 M3[]03 M3[]02 MCoupe[]94 MR2T[]93 MR2 T[]92 MR2 T[]91 MR2 T[]95 SC400[]
Gone but not forgotten: 04 STI[]05 MR2 Spyder[]04 S2k[]03 IS300[]90 MR2[]
Appreciate 1
TXSTYLE13653.00
      05-28-2019, 11:12 PM   #713
TXSTYLE
"Salud"
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
13653
Rep
4,662
Posts

Drives: F01 & F15 / Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Coupe View Post
Yes!

Now why does your username sound familiar to me? Houston-Imports?
Nah. I'm up north in the Dallas area.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 12:05 PM   #714
supra93
Colonel
2474
Rep
2,334
Posts

Drives: Z4, E500, Supra, RX7
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

First A90 Supra delivered in Germany

The Video is in German, but with English subtitles.

Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 02:11 PM   #715
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Using modern BMW ZF EPS feel as a benchmark is sort of like using Cadillac's median buyer age to talk about how woke your buyers are. I stand by BRZ steering feel sucking. Extensive road and track time with them does not impress me.


It's only funny because it's true.

I let my friend drive my MZ4 Coupe once. He's been extolling the virtues of his F30 328i and how sharp and precise the steering is.

Then he proceeds to go wide eyed and "holy sh*t omg" all the way down the twisty mountain road. Every single turn. "Holy sh*t. OMG. Holy sh*t. OMG."

You don't know what you don't know until you know. My other toy has been virtually universally praised for its implementation of electric power steering assist. To a man, the journos all praise the C7 Corvette as having a fantastic steering feel and amazingly responsive front end.

To that, the MZ4 Coupe says "b*tch hold my beer" every time I hop back in. Again, the C7 Corvette does have a fantastic front end grip and excellent feedback, for an electrically assisted steering.

But hold a candle to the mighty Servotronic hydraulic steering from the late 90s and early 80s it can not. IT. CAN. NOT. You don't know what real steering feel FEELS like unless you've driven an E36 M3 or variants using it's steering rack design (Z3 M, Z4 M). Heck I'd even trade the Corvette's vaunted "steering feel" for something resembling the steering from my E46 323Ci.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 1
Red Bread4462.00
      05-29-2019, 02:18 PM   #716
Humdizzle
Brigadier General
6024
Rep
3,610
Posts

Drives: GT3 + M2c
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

You don't know what real steering feel is until you drive a car without power steering. At least that's what my friend with an RX7 and other miata bros tell me.

I agree my e36 M3 steering feel was amazing. I remember when i sold that and got my e46 m3 and felt a little let down with the feel, but i soon got over it since it had the s54.
__________________

2018 Porsche GT3 6MT
2021 M2C DCT
Previous: Ferrari 458 | R35 GTR | F80 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | Scion FRS
Appreciate 1
clee1982796.00
      05-29-2019, 02:26 PM   #717
angelr
Lieutenant
188
Rep
515
Posts

Drives: 07 aw/ir m coupe, 2013 S4
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cedarpines park, Ca

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
You don't know what real steering feel is until you drive a car without power steering. At least that's what my friend with an RX7 and other miata bros tell me.

I agree my e36 M3 steering feel was amazing. I remember when i sold that and got my e46 m3 and felt a little let down with the feel, but i soon got over it since it had the s54.
Miatas are good but my fave was the first gen MR2, it had great steering feel and response. I had an 85 in high school that I loved.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 02:55 PM   #718
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
You don't know what real steering feel is until you drive a car without power steering. At least that's what my friend with an RX7 and other miata bros tell me.
That is ALSO true. I drove an unassisted 91 NSX on track once. Holy sh*t OMG. Once up to speed, you forget how hard it was to maneuver the car out of its parking spot, and you soon realize that if you can EVER be sexually attracted to how a steering SHOULD feel, this was it.

It was about as close to having bareback sex as compared to steering feel as it gets.

In my entire 20 or so years of driving a wide variety of cars on track, only 2 cars have ever come remotely close of getting me "excited." The 91, no power steering NSX, and a late model Lotus Exige 240S. Those two car's steering makes you question your desire for the opposite sex, a little.

Not enough to make me want to give it up for sure.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 1
clee1982796.00
      05-29-2019, 03:05 PM   #719
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
You don't know what real steering feel is until you drive a car without power steering. At least that's what my friend with an RX7 and other miata bros tell me.

I agree my e36 M3 steering feel was amazing. I remember when i sold that and got my e46 m3 and felt a little let down with the feel, but i soon got over it since it had the s54.
Miatas are good but my fave was the first gen MR2, it had great steering feel and response. I had an 85 in high school that I loved.
Those were great. Too bad I didn't fit in them. My CRX Si with manual steering was still fun, until it was pointing the wrong way. That seemed to happen a lot.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 03:05 PM   #720
supra93
Colonel
2474
Rep
2,334
Posts

Drives: Z4, E500, Supra, RX7
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 03:07 PM   #721
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Blank

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
and a late model Lotus Exige 240S.
Those were just the glue fumes. But seriously, those did have nice steering. The NSX is probably the heaviest thing I've driven with manual steering. With sticky tires, that was a workout to parallel park.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 04:06 PM   #722
The HACK
Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class
The HACK's Avatar
1817
Rep
5,337
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Those were just the glue fumes. But seriously, those did have nice steering. The NSX is probably the heaviest thing I've driven with manual steering. With sticky tires, that was a workout to parallel park.
The one I drove, they told me NOT to shut it off when I park it because the car wouldn't start again.

There were 3 Lotus Exige 240S there that day. Out of the 3, only 2 runs. Out of the 2 that runs, one had a fuel leak in the engine bay that ultimately they had to shut down and take out of rotation, and the other one...Well, was what I drove that can't be turned off, otherwise they can't restart it again.

It was funny that they had a fire extinguisher standing by with the other car, just in case the fuel leak got bad enough that the hot engine would ignite the leaking fuel. At that point, shouldn't you just, um, shut the car down and park it? I just thought the fact that they said, "you can either wait until the other Lotus is back from the other journalist test driving it, or you can take this one, but at any point if you smell fuel, pit in ASAP" was a little suspect.

But man...That steering feel. OMG. Holy sh*t.
__________________
Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
Appreciate 1
Red Bread4462.00
      05-29-2019, 05:12 PM   #723
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

British cars, not like real cars...
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 06:41 PM   #724
N0Chill 335i
Colonel
N0Chill 335i's Avatar
United_States
846
Rep
2,771
Posts

Drives: 13' F30 335i M Sport AW
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (2)

https://www.thedrive.com/opinion/280...een-asking-for

"I'd actually go a step further—and likely enrage those same online trolls—by saying that in my eyes, the new Supra is a true successor to BMW’s legendary and truly iconic E30 M3. That sacrosanct sports car is what many submit as evidence of BMW’s lost identity. The formula of two doors, lightweight, and fun as all hell was simple and seemingly unrepeatable. That is, until the Supra. But better yet, the Supra's also over $20,000 cheaper than the E30 M3 was when it was new—when adjusted for inflation, the price for a 1988 M3 today would be $73,000."
__________________
F30 335i Progression Thread:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1304514

BMW 07 Pre LCI 335i e92 SOLD
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2019, 06:53 PM   #725
angelr
Lieutenant
188
Rep
515
Posts

Drives: 07 aw/ir m coupe, 2013 S4
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cedarpines park, Ca

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
British cars, not like real cars...
Lol, I had a 73 MG Midget in high school (gorgeous sky blue over black with some lovely knock off wheels in amazing shape) while I worked at a place called British American motors and this is very true. I pushed that Mg almost as much as I drove it and every cent I "made" working at this British sports car shop went back into my MG...until I bought the MR2 and the MG started to languish.
Appreciate 1
Red Bread4462.00
      05-29-2019, 08:48 PM   #726
M Coupe
Private
M Coupe's Avatar
97
Rep
87
Posts

Drives: S54 M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
British cars, not like real cars...
An interesting fact with these "British" cars (that tickles me and so I have to share), is that they take OEM Toyota MR2 Turbo Oil Filters!!..which is great b/c I have a lifetime supply of them.

My British Racing Green Exige S below next to my Nautical Blue MR2 Turbo! They make me smile when I stand b/w them.

Also, the "Back on Topic" Gal below is saying to us right now "Shaddup and get a 2020 Supra and I will ride with you"
Attached Images
   
__________________
Current: 20 X3MC[]19 GT-R[]17 M2[]18 TACO[]17 WRX[]14 T4R LTD&SR5[]12 NV2500[]07 Exige S[]07 S2k[]05 M3[]03 M3[]02 MCoupe[]94 MR2T[]93 MR2 T[]92 MR2 T[]91 MR2 T[]95 SC400[]
Gone but not forgotten: 04 STI[]05 MR2 Spyder[]04 S2k[]03 IS300[]90 MR2[]
Appreciate 1
Red Bread4462.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST