[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian

I agree with you on the brand loyalty part. I have various brand in my garage and BMW happens to be two of them. I do however look for workmanship and what a car is capable to do for me. I've had GM cars in the past and due to some poor workmanship and lousy dealer service decided not to get another one. I too test drove the ATS and found the F30 to be superior in every aspect (free four year maintanance one of them), and to this day I haven't had a single issue with it. Now I don't drive as much as you do but driving a car that makes me feel good while I drive it matters to me. Saving gas, not so much.. But to each it's own I guess.

I test drove an ATS for over a week (had one as a loaner) on my daily commute, so over 800 miles. My commute has some of the best back roads in Central Virginia, including a corkscrew that drops about 900 feet in 1 mile, with 11 turns in it. I found the ATS the better driving car. All the other perceived attributes of the F10 over the ATS do not enhance the driving capability of the F10 over the ATS.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

To make the Volt viable I need to charge it at work and at home.

Elucidate me please. I thought Volts switched on their gasoline engines when needed and had essentially unlimited range.

Also please don't sell all turbo cars short re longevity. My 2005 STi at 117K miles was running just as strong as it did when it was new. Turbos are not the issue, engineering is the issue. And maintenance, and in the case of a car like an STi, an owner that does not flog the bejeezus out of it. Turbos are also routinely used in diesels that go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wdb

Elucidate me please. I thought Volts switched on their gasoline engines when needed and had essentially unlimited range.

Also please don't sell all turbo cars short re longevity. My 2005 STi at 117K miles was running just as strong as it did when it was new. Turbos are not the issue, engineering is the issue. And maintenance, and in the case of a car like an STi, an owner that does not flog the bejeezus out of it. Turbos are also routinely used in diesels that go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles.

You are correct, however my commute is 80 miles one way, so to make using a Volt in the most economical sense, I need to run it in electric mode as much as possible. So that means charging it at home and work to drive it in electric mode at least halfway for each one-way trip.

[rcl]

Originally Posted by wdb

Elucidate me please. I thought Volts switched on their gasoline engines when needed and had essentially unlimited range.

Also please don't sell all turbo cars short re longevity. My 2005 STi at 117K miles was running just as strong as it did when it was new. Turbos are not the issue, engineering is the issue. And maintenance, and in the case of a car like an STi, an owner that does not flog the bejeezus out of it. Turbos are also routinely used in diesels that go multiple hundreds of thousands of miles.

I never hear of car's like Sti's/335i's/evo's/ etc going 200k+ or 300k+ miles strong, yet plenty of na cars do all the time. Aside from semi-truck engines which run like 1 million miles with their FI'd engines, I can't think of any decently reliable turbocharged cars that has been known to last high mileage like na cars do on a regular basis. I also prefer the instant throttle response/sound/feel or na engine, which is why the porsche gt3 rs is one of my favorite cars.
/rant

[fecurtis]

It's common that the F01 can't hold a candle to other cars in it's class. And by other cars in its class I just mean an S-Class.

Wonder how the G11/G12 7 Series will be like in actual testing.

[JNoSol]

Forbes doesn't know what they're talking about. I had an F02, it's one of my favorite big cars of all time. I like the 750Li more than my current 6GC. I didn't care that I could get an S8 (faster) for the money, the 7 series has a soul like most BMWs. I'm invited to test drive the new ones... Might get another one.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Forbes doesn't know what they're talking about. I had an F02, it's one of my favorite big cars of all time. I like the 750Li more than my current 6GC. I didn't care that I could get an S8 (faster) for the money, the 7 series has a soul like most BMWs. I'm invited to test drive the new ones... Might get another one.

For some reason, I got invited to BMW NA's 7 vs S-class comparison last year.
I would not consider buying either car due to sheer size of both, but between the two, S-class handled better, did a much better job absorbing road imperfections (no-RFT's helped), and depreciates way slower than 7.
A8/S8 would also be an attractive alternative to either.

a

[M.Power]

The F01 750li is a beast. And it looks beautiful, especially with M-Sport. This article is retarded..

[oolas3]

The S class never seems to age well. Ends up looking dated quick.