[peteinpa]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

You need to take a reading at a constant speed for 10 mins at least. If you are increasing or decreasing speed it just adds confusion and loads of variables.
Once you do this, start from the highest area of vibration and work through the issues and locations.
If you are having vibration when braking the problem is brake discs..
In my case the discs were causing vibration even when not braking..

It is very difficult to find stretches of highway around that does not see a fair amount of traffic.
That said I did my best on the way to work and home to do as suggested. And I did get consistent results. They both came back with 2nd order driveshaft speed related vibration. As per the app there a few possible causes.
I don’t have the tools or mechanical inclination. However I have enough info to specify to a technician what I want them to inspect.

[Haradrim]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

The only way to talk to dealerships is to speak with data. Purchase a decent vibration app such as NVH for android and show them the results. Hard data does not lie...
I too changed tyres in the early days before I got the vib app, but if tyres are not the root cause then changing them won't help.
A BMW G30 with no defects will handle any half decent tyre with no vibration once fitted and balanced correctly.
Getting BMW to find vibrations is a waste of time, you need to find it yourself and prove it with data, and tell them exactly what to do
Find the defect and the true root cause

Unfortunately at my country nothing is help. They also accepted there is vibration on car but they said road caused or asphalt based. If you are not ok take to the courthouse.. That's why i am on my way.

We completed some theories with the Frenchstar-57

His car is fine until he changed to pirelli from michelin.

And michelin is premium tyre for g30's and approved by the factory.

We are thinking that pilot sport zp* will solve all the little vibrations.

[JohnB45]

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695222

Found another excellent guide to solving vibration. It is from the M3 Forum but the advice would apply to any BMW..


Common causes of vibration (excluding brake judder). Go through the list and eventually it WILL be solved.

1) Wheels and tyres are out of balance
2) Wheel is bent, resulting in axle or radial runout (a few millimetres can be felt)
3) Wheel hub is not sitting flush with hub of the car
4) Wheel spigot (centre bore) is not centred on the car's hub (very common with aftermarket wheels that come with spigot rings). The wheel should fit snugly around the hub lip of the car.
5) Wheel bolts not torqued in the correct pattern or to the correct value
6) Tyre has too much runout despite being in balance i.e. tyre wobbles from side to side or up and down despite alloy wheel being perfectly round
7) Tyre sidewall has variation in stiffness - cured by road force balance
8) Wheel bearing bent or worn
9) Suspension components are faulty or out of alignment
10) Brake discs/rotors are imbalanced (especially aftermarket) or have an elliptical rotation (in the radial direction) due to faulty/worn floating mechanisms or poor manufacturing.

The chassis setup of the M3 is precise enough that there is little tolerance of any imperfection. My M3 and indeed many others have been perfectly smooth from new. Any vibration is a problem somewhere. 99% of the time, it's to do with the alloy wheel and tyre. Even if the tyres and alloy wheel balance perfectly using a dynamic balancer, there are still a number of problems a wheel and tyre can have that can cause vibration namely:

A.Tyre or wheel runout
B.Is the wheel hub sitting perfectly flush with the car's hub
C.How the spigot of the wheel sits on the car's hub lip - hubcentric
D.The irregularity of the sidewall stiffness of the tyre

I can guarantee that if the wheel and tyre is properly balanced and the above 4 points are checked, 99% of vibration problems will be solved. Also note that there are broadly speaking 3 types of vibration that one can feel through the steering wheel:

Rhythmic vibration - this is due to an imbalance on the car
Road surface vibration - texture of the road surface
Impact vibration - self explanatory

Rhythmic vibration being the one that requires fixing.

Road force balancing while better than dynamic balancing still does not deal with points A, B and C. Points A, B and C can be diagnosed at home or at a good mechanic. All you need is a good eye.

My personal experience:
I had a slight vibration at the same speeds and I jacked up the car and spun both front wheels and there was a tiny bend in the inner rim of one of the front wheels - no more than 2-3mm out of trueness. Had it fixed and all was good. Had another set of wheels custom powder coated and ended up vibrating, which turned out to be due to the spigot having a bit too much paint and not allowing itself to sit perfectly flush with the hub of the car.

[Haradrim]

Hello John,

I agree with you, i have still little vibrations with spacers on same speed and they are irregular.

I think main reason is tyres. My car has bridgestone er300 turanza's which is very hard and uncomfortable tyre with high road force. With a premium soft tyre like Michelin PS4 i think i'm gonna handle that.

Will let you know updates.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Hello John,

I agree with you, i have still little vibrations with spacers on same speed and they are irregular.

I think main reason is tyres. My car has bridgestone er300 turanza's which is very hard and uncomfortable tyre with high road force. With a premium soft tyre like Michelin PS4 i think i'm gonna handle that.

Will let you know updates.

By irregular, I assume you mean vibration comes and goes in similar conditions/speeds.

My experience, this is most likely wheels/tyres. I've known vehicles to have this due to both wheels, on a same axle, being slightly off balance. As you go around curves, the wheels have different rotational speeds, they go in and out of phase for vibrations and balance.

Example being, you drive a straight road and no vibrations, go round a bend and the next straight you feel slight vibrations. Another bend and straight again, no vibrations.

[Haradrim]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

By irregular, I assume you mean vibration comes and goes in similar conditions/speeds.

My experience, this is most likely wheels/tyres. I've known vehicles to have this due to both wheels, on a same axle, being slightly off balance. As you go around curves, the wheels have different rotational speeds, they go in and out of phase for vibrations and balance.

Example being, you drive a straight road and no vibrations, go round a bend and the next straight you feel slight vibrations. Another bend and straight again, no vibrations.

Exactly.

You totally identified my issue. Cruise control active on 140km/h, the car is vibrating for 3 seconds an stop then continue 10 sec later.

Sometimes there is no vibration car goes smooth for 10km

And as i said my tyres are really low km but very low quality and old design..

[Mike 540]

I drive a 2018 G31 540ix. Bought second hand in Germany and the car drives very smoothly in all speeds. Car runs on 20" rft tyres Michelin Pilot sport 3 tried with and without 11mm spacers - no vibrations at all. When putting on winter wheel sets (19" Pirelli sottozero) at first I had vibrations at speeds over 140 km/h but after rebalancing with road force balance which found a foulty (previous) balancing the ride is again very smooth in all speeds. I would think that the vibrations do not come from rft tyres as such (if not damaged to some degree) nor from spacers. The cause is somewhere else. I would first try rebalancing with road force, that would reveal potential problems with rims and/or tyres as such.

[Haradrim]

Originally Posted by Mike 540

I drive a 2018 G31 540ix. Bought second hand in Germany and the car drives very smoothly in all speeds. Car runs on 20" rft tyres Michelin Pilot sport 3 tried with and without 11mm spacers - no vibrations at all. When putting on winter wheel sets (19" Pirelli sottozero) at first I had vibrations at speeds over 140 km/h but after rebalancing with road force balance which found a foulty (previous) balancing the ride is again very smooth in all speeds. I would think that the vibrations do not come from rft tyres as such (if not damaged to some degree) nor from spacers. The cause is somewhere else. I would first try rebalancing with road force, that would reveal potential problems with rims and/or tyres as such.

Hello, my idea is also tyre balance road force based. But my tyres are very old designs. 2021 made but completely away from premium quality and comfort.

bridgestone er300 turanza. Very hard and loud. That's why cant reach low road force

My latest hope is Michelins.

[Mike 540]

Michelins are good, watch for those star rated - i.e. certified by BMW. When balancing the wheel I watched the guys doing all kinds of things including partially rotating the tyre on the rim to reach the best results, etc. Very interesting equipment and excellent results.

[JohnB45]

Just a couple more things I have learned:
1. Even if a dealer balances your wheels to 0, this will nott fix vibration issues if u have a bent rim.
It might fix it on a Toyota or Nissan etc., but not a BMW
2. The usual " is it felt in the seat or steering " question will not determine whether its a rear wheel or front wheel issue - BMW G30 have very stiff connected chassis and subframes, so any imbalance will be felt all over the car
3. 9 times out of 10 its the wheels. Some get wheels straightened and balanced, and it does not fix the issue so they go after other areas such as driveshaft, bearings, hubs, tca, ball joints etc and they never find the fix.
The problem is that acceptable wheel runout or roundness on other cars is not acceptable on a BMW G30 due to chassis design - make sure your wheels are absolutely perfect before moving on to something else. Remember, it's probably the wheels!
4. If you are chasing down a vibration on a BMW you need the vibration NVH APP. Point 2 is the reason why you need this technology.
Also learn how to measure wheel and tyre runout

[Haradrim]

**Update**
I have done the vibration issue. Yesterday did tests and no more!

since i got the car i can describe my vibration force for 10/10.

-Friction disks, decrease to 5/10 was still here.
-After that i have applied spacers for prevent clearance on wheel hubs. Vibrations decrease on 3/10 but still there

And the finally, replaced bridgestone er300's with Michelin Pilotsport4. And vibration is dissappear

I have catch 1.5kg road force for this tyres which is incredible.

[bimmerinho]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

**Update**
I have done the vibration issue. Yesterday did tests and no more!

since i got the car i can describe my vibration force for 10/10.

-Friction disks, decrease to 5/10 was still here.
-After that i have applied spacers for prevent clearance on wheel hubs. Vibrations decrease on 3/10 but still there

And the finally, replaced bridgestone er300's with Michelin Pilotsport4. And vibration is dissappear

I have catch 1.5kg road force for this tyres which is incredible.

Hey! Thank you very much for this info. I also have some vibration issues and BMW is not helping at all
Would you be able to clarify what do you mean by friction disks? English isn't my first language and for the life of me I cannot figure it out

[abraarukuk]

how to use nvh app? do we need odb ?

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Hello. first of all thank you for detailed information.

I have been strugling for vibrations forone year which i bought 0 km brand new car.

My summary; My car came with pirelli p7 cinturatos and had vibration

And then change to bridgestone er300 turanza, vibrations same and speed range change 130-140

After all we figured out the real issue ise the clearance between wheel hub and wheel much more than it should be. applied custom made spacers on my car vibrations really decreased but still some on curves and hills.

So my last opinion is tyres. My tyres are VERY hard and also rft. The comments for er300 is like a stone and it causes high road force i think.

I think michelin primacy will be eliminate this force coming from road. Waiting your ideas about my theory.

Best regards.

Lower your tire pressure. US tire pressures are far too high, particularly with RFTs.

Over here in Germany, half-load pressures for a 540i like mine are about 34 psi. I run mine at 30 (in line with what Goodyear recommends) and the car handles better, soaks up bumps, and I have a good wear pattern. No vibration and car is 4 years old with about 47,000 kms on the clock.

RFTs at near full-load pressures are going to destroy your ride and probably cause early component wear.