[JohnB45]

Background:
Over the last 10 Months I have battled with Vibration on my G30. Searching the net and listening to BMW led me down many rabbit holes, so I decided to pull a post together to show how I finally solved the Vibration issue on my car.

Executive Summary:
The BMW G30 is extremely sensitive and prone to vibration issues due to the chassis and its components being finely tuned and set up for run-flat tyres. Any discrepancy in the drivetrain will cause vibration, therefore it is extremely important to approach a vibration issue using an open and logical mind with a view to finding the true root cause.
All drivetrain components and how they interact with each other should be taken into account.
Tools such as a NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) app should be used to get a good baseline of vibration, and allow you to speak with data when talking to BMW or an Independent garage.
To minimise cost, a logical and methodical approach should be used.

Approach:
Vibration symptoms should be nailed down first:

Low frequency vibrations (~15 to 18 Hz) at 100 km hr and above would point towards a wheel assembly imbalance. Note that all components that rotate at the same frequency should be taken into account i.e. brake discs, and also anything that can interfere with rotation at this frequency i.e. sticking brake calipers and/or brake pads.
Note the feeling here can be felt like a pounding or thumping type of vibration, either in the seat (indicating rear wheels) or in the steering wheel (indicating front wheels)

Medium Frequency Vibrations can be felt like less thumping and more of a chattering sensation (~30 Hz at 100 km hr and above) and would indicate a motor or gearbox mounting, or an exhaust mounting, or something related or connected to the engine.

High Frequency Vibration is more of a buzzing sensation (~50 Hz at 100 km hr and above) and would point towards the Driveshaft assembly i.e. the Guibo or carrier bearing, or something connected. Note that a wheel bearing may also be a high frequency sensation, made worse when turning/

My experience:
I bought my G30 from a BMW dealership in the hope that I would not have any issues....I was wrong..
I can tell you now that BMW dealerships have no interest in realistically fixing vibration complaints, it is absolutely bottom of their priority list. They will entertain you with some quick investigations and immediately jumping to the obvious and easy stuff such as balancing wheels just to get you out of their shop. The put no effort into finding true root cause using sound engineering techniques, and will gladly tag you along replacing various parts, but you will end up tearing your hair out.

For me the first trip on the motorway uncovered the vibration. I immediately went back to BMW:
First trip they said it was the refurbished wheels and excess lumps of lacquer on the hub face. 2 front wheels replaced and 2 rears refurbished again. This did nothing for vibration.
Second trip back to BMW and they blamed imbalanced wheels. Wheels were balanced, but did not fix
Third trip back to BMW and they replaced rear brake discs. This helped, but it just pushed the vibration up into the 120 km hr range.
Fourth trip back and they realigned the wheels and suspension components
Fifth trip back to BMW and the replaced an engine mount. This reduced some harshness at idle but did nothing for vibration at motorway speed.

Note that after the third trip back to BMW, I purchased a NVH App from google play store and started taking measurements. I also got my hands on a published document detailing acceptable levels of vibration for passenger vehicles in europe. My levels were above the acceptable limits. I now had hard data and a sience based approach.

The NVP App diagnosed the Engine Mount as being the primary cause of vibration at all speeds. BMW replaced the mount, but it did not sort the motorway vibration.
I re-ran a vibration test, and the App now showed the wheels as being the primary source of vibration. I replaced the tyres with non-run-flat Falken Azenis, my thinking here was the lighter weight vs run-flat would reduce rotational mass and vibration amplitude. During balancing the tyres, the fitter noted that some wheels were showing minor buckles when rotated.
I went to another pro shop, where they straightened the wheels, rotated the tyres on the rim to get maximum concentricity, and rebalanced.
Car now drives like a dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So What Was Root Cause?
The brake discs were causing the initial vibration on the motorway, they were worn uneven, and due to the discs being vented there was a large clump of rust build-up at one point of each disc. This is why the initial wheel balancing would not work, as no matter how well balanced the wheels were the discs would still cause vibration
The Engine Mount threw some confusion into the mix, as it was causing vibrations at all speeds. Thankfully the NVH App diagnosed this - I showed BMW the data and they investigated, found a failed mount, and replaced it.
The bent / buckled wheels were causing the remaining vibration. Again the NVH App diagnosed this. I got the wheels straightened at a local pro shop, rebalanced and this finally fixed the vibration.

Other points to consider:
Best logical approach is to start at the wheel assembly and work your way inwards along the drivetrain i.e Tyre > Wheel > Hub/bearing > Mountings/track control > Diff > Driveshaft Assembly > Engine Mounts etc.
Other things to watch out for are VDC malfunction or X Drive issues

My advice is to just get rid of Run-Flat Tyres. Modern BMW wheel rims are just too soft, and if a pothole as much as looks sideways at a rim it will bend it. You will have some hope of keeping wheels straight with go-flat tyres, and you will benefit also from increased grip, quieter ride, and more comfort.

Some on the Bimmerpost forum say they solved their vibration by fitting friction discs, fitting tape to the wheel hub spigot, or fitting bespoke spacers to remove any gap between wheel rim bore and hub spigot. I am not sure of this as I tried it and it made no difference. Each G30 would have come from the factory vibration free, so something must have gone wrong along the way.

Conclusion:
BMW's are finely tuned cars that are prone to vibration. If you encounter a vibration issue follow the process above to help you find the true root cause.

Don't expect BMW to fix any vibration issues that are not obvious. Think logically and speak to them with data.

Nail down your symptoms first, and then start to look at components related to your symptoms - but beware as sometimes there may be more that one component causing vibration i.e. brake discs and bent wheels in my case at low frequency and an Engine Mount at high frequency.

BMW G30's should be a smooth, pleasurable driving experience. If you have vibration keep going until you find true root cause and it will be worth it. Hopefully the above will help you along the way.

All the best,

John.

[admranger]

Excellent write up! Thank you!

Ironically, I was just coming on here to ask about vibration under hard, but not ridiculous, acceleration. It feels like my center support bearing but I guess I will get an NVH app and see what it says!

Did you try any of the free apps or go straight to the paid one?

[peteinpa]

Great write up. Which app are you using. When I search the App Store only one comes up VR Mobile Vibration testing. Is this what you used?

[JohnB45]

Search for "NVH for Android" in the Google Play Store, this is what I used.
100 euro, but we'll worth it

[peteinpa]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

Search for "NVH for Android" in the Google Play Store, this is what I used.
100 euro, but we'll worth it

Found it. Thank you.

[gasoline]

Thanks for the detailed info.
I hate run-flat tyres as it generates too much shudder & vibration, ruining drive comfort and I am planning to put all season ones. But BMW insists on using star marked run flat tyres and does not recommend all season ones, even for Xdrive types.
Anybody using all season tyres in Xdrive cars? Is there a risk for xdrive or driveline system?

[Haradrim]

Hello. first of all thank you for detailed information.

I have been strugling for vibrations forone year which i bought 0 km brand new car.

My summary; My car came with pirelli p7 cinturatos and had vibration

And then change to bridgestone er300 turanza, vibrations same and speed range change 130-140

After all we figured out the real issue ise the clearance between wheel hub and wheel much more than it should be. applied custom made spacers on my car vibrations really decreased but still some on curves and hills.

So my last opinion is tyres. My tyres are VERY hard and also rft. The comments for er300 is like a stone and it causes high road force i think.

I think michelin primacy will be eliminate this force coming from road. Waiting your ideas about my theory.

Best regards.

[peteinpa]

Originally Posted by gasoline

Thanks for the detailed info.
I hate run-flat tyres as it generates too much shudder & vibration, ruining drive comfort and I am planning to put all season ones. But BMW insists on using star marked run flat tyres and does not recommend all season ones, even for Xdrive types.
Anybody using all season tyres in Xdrive cars? Is there a risk for xdrive or driveline system?

Many of us run non run flats. No
Xdrive issues.

[gasoline]

Originally Posted by peteinpa

Many of us run non run flats. No
Xdrive issues.

Thanks

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

I went to another pro shop, where they straightened the wheels, rotated the tyres on the rim to get maximum concentricity, and rebalanced.
Car now drives like a dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My experience over many years, most vibrations within a particular and limited speed range, are wheel related. Rim, tyre or mounting issues.

We've had this with BMW since the E39, very sensitive to fine wheel balance tolerances. Any imbalance appears to be amplified through the chassis, due to the suspension design.

Saying that, I worked in a Rover/Triumph dealer in the 1970's, We'd have a balancer that could balance wheels (as an assembly) while mounted to the vehicle. This was a standard procedure when a simple 'off-car' wheel balance couldn't eliminate vibrations.

[TEF]

I don't believe that star-marked tires (the lack thereof) really matter. As for the BMW wheels being too soft, I would suggest that the 18 inch and larger wheels used by all manufacturers are just too large. When combined with lower and lower profile tires there is just no compliance when hitting potholes. The result is often damaged tire sidewalls and bent or broken rims. These larger wheel/tire combinations also create more un sprung weight. Other than bling, they offer no advantages.

[JohnB45]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My experience over many years, most vibrations within a particular and limited speed range, are wheel related. Rim, tyre or mounting issues.

We've had this with BMW since the E39, very sensitive to fine wheel balance tolerances. Any imbalance appears to be amplified through the chassis, due to the suspension design.

Saying that, I worked in a Rover/Triumph dealer in the 1970's, We'd have a balancer that could balance wheels (as an assembly) while mounted to the vehicle. This was a standard procedure when a simple 'off-car' wheel balance couldn't eliminate vibrations.

I agree, crazy how sound technical solutions seems to have disappeared from BMW workshops....
When I was dealing with BMW on this issue, I actually saw how they were balancing the wheels, using a very basic standard balancing machine that any back street guy would have.
I asked them about roadforce and or balancing on the car as you said and they never heard of either method!

[JohnB45]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Hello. first of all thank you for detailed information.

I have been strugling for vibrations forone year which i bought 0 km brand new car.

My summary; My car came with pirelli p7 cinturatos and had vibration

And then change to bridgestone er300 turanza, vibrations same and speed range change 130-140

After all we figured out the real issue ise the clearance between wheel hub and wheel much more than it should be. applied custom made spacers on my car vibrations really decreased but still some on curves and hills.

So my last opinion is tyres. My tyres are VERY hard and also rft. The comments for er300 is like a stone and it causes high road force i think.

I think michelin primacy will be eliminate this force coming from road. Waiting your ideas about my theory.

Best regards.

Seeing as you had the issue from new, you were sold a defective car. Did BMW attempt to fix it for you, or offer a solution?
It's one thing trying to fix these things when they emerge but if the car had thus from new its a defective car

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

Seeing as you had the issue from new, you were sold a defective car. Did BMW attempt to fix it for you, or offer a solution?
It's one thing trying to fix these things when they emerge but if the car had thus from new its a defective car

The issue with wheel mounting, it is assumed the hub-centric tolerances are in spec. When 0.05mm outside the spec' can mean issues, we are into very fine tolerances to prevent first order vibrations from the wheels.

BMW have recognised this for both the G30 and the previous generation F10, amongst other models.

For me, the question is, do dealers make the appropriate checks?

[gasoline]

Originally Posted by peteinpa

Many of us run non run flats. No
Xdrive issues.

Hi,
As I read the comments on xdrive system, it is said to be very sensitive to tyre type and condition. Sometimes, especially on uphill roads, the car moves as if it first tries to jump forward and then calms down, again jumps and so on…Can it be related to tyre type, uneven pressures or stg similar?
I am afraid this low frequency wavy movement is due to a drivetrain, transmission or torque converter problem. My car is 65k miles.
Is there any xdrive user experiencing this?

[LogicalApex]

Great write up! I’ll keep this in mind if I develop persistent vibration issues.

So far, all of mine have been related to bent wheels from our poor roads. Once they’re fixed it drives as smooth as butter with no vibrations.

[JohnB45]

Thanks. Hopefully this helps BMW owners struggling to sort vibration issues

[Haradrim]

Originally Posted by JohnB45

Seeing as you had the issue from new, you were sold a defective car. Did BMW attempt to fix it for you, or offer a solution?
It's one thing trying to fix these things when they emerge but if the car had thus from new its a defective car

Hello

Yes but unfortunately as most of dealers did, my dealer also said that these vibrations are normal or they said we dont feel.

After that only way i have taking this issue to courthouse but these things are not east at TURKIYE and take very long times.

With perfect mounting and spacer solution for clearance of wheels, i still some vibrations. And i think that this is completely tyre brand related.

Mines are ER300 bridgestone which is very old and only approved for f10 5 series from BMW and no more production since 2016 for final users. Only factories getting some. Very old design.

VERY HARD tyre and causing unconfortable drive and high roadforce. g30 is very sensetive and these tyres completely negative for this car. As all bmw dealers adviced i am getting Michelin's pilotsport 4 ZP* soon.

I think with this change i will get rid of little vibrations which remains.

Best regards.

[peteinpa]

I purchased the app and started playing around with. Based on results I think i should sell the car . What I feel is vibration between 40-50mph, more pronounced when braking in that range.

I have done multiple samplings. AS per the app I have;
1) 1-3rd order Tire Speed Vibrations- Highest counts in the 30-34 mph range
2) 1-3 Order Driveshaft vibrations - highest count 1st order 30-34 mph
3) 1-23rd order Engine Speed Vibrations - highest count 2nd order 34-39mph and 3rd order 0-4MPH.

So what does this mean - J haven't an F'in clue.

I have a Remus exhaust which I think might be contributing to the results.
I do not have a phone holder - phone was resting on the console near the shift knob. Wondering if having it rest there is also a problem.
Going to play around with it a bit more today. I may just hold the phone in my hand while taking the samples. Will be interesting to see those results.

I have also made an appt to have the car checked at my dealer. I bet $'s to doughnuts they tell me it is warped rotors. I had the front rotors pads done not so long ago maybe a couple of months. I have not changed the rears. Will see where this all leads.

[JohnB45]

Originally Posted by peteinpa

I purchased the app and started playing around with. Based on results I think i should sell the car . What I feel is vibration between 40-50mph, more pronounced when braking in that range.

I have done multiple samplings. AS per the app I have;
1) 1-3rd order Tire Speed Vibrations- Highest counts in the 30-34 mph range
2) 1-3 Order Driveshaft vibrations - highest count 1st order 30-34 mph
3) 1-23rd order Engine Speed Vibrations - highest count 2nd order 34-39mph and 3rd order 0-4MPH.

So what does this mean - J haven't an F'in clue.

I have a Remus exhaust which I think might be contributing to the results.
I do not have a phone holder - phone was resting on the console near the shift knob. Wondering if having it rest there is also a problem.
Going to play around with it a bit more today. I may just hold the phone in my hand while taking the samples. Will be interesting to see those results.

I have also made an appt to have the car checked at my dealer. I bet $'s to doughnuts they tell me it is warped rotors. I had the front rotors pads done not so long ago maybe a couple of months. I have not changed the rears. Will see where this all leads.

You need to take a reading at a constant speed for 10 mins at least. If you are increasing or decreasing speed it just adds confusion and loads of variables.
Once you do this, start from the highest area of vibration and work through the issues and locations.
If you are having vibration when braking the problem is brake discs..
In my case the discs were causing vibration even when not braking..

[peteinpa]

Thank you John. My sense tells me warped discs also. I had the fronts changed a couple of months ago. Maybe the rears? Having them checked week after next so will see. I will try with the tool as you suggested. I am also wondering if I have an issue with my exhaust. I had a Remus axle back installed a month or 2 ago. The driver side seems to be loose, maybe the mount? Will have that checked also.

[JohnB45]

Originally Posted by Haradrim

Hello

Yes but unfortunately as most of dealers did, my dealer also said that these vibrations are normal or they said we dont feel.

After that only way i have taking this issue to courthouse but these things are not east at TURKIYE and take very long times.

With perfect mounting and spacer solution for clearance of wheels, i still some vibrations. And i think that this is completely tyre brand related.

Mines are ER300 bridgestone which is very old and only approved for f10 5 series from BMW and no more production since 2016 for final users. Only factories getting some. Very old design.

VERY HARD tyre and causing unconfortable drive and high roadforce. g30 is very sensetive and these tyres completely negative for this car. As all bmw dealers adviced i am getting Michelin's pilotsport 4 ZP* soon.

I think with this change i will get rid of little vibrations which remains.

Best regards.

The only way to talk to dealerships is to speak with data. Purchase a decent vibration app such as NVH for android and show them the results. Hard data does not lie...
I too changed tyres in the early days before I got the vib app, but if tyres are not the root cause then changing them won't help.
A BMW G30 with no defects will handle any half decent tyre with no vibration once fitted and balanced correctly.
Getting BMW to find vibrations is a waste of time, you need to find it yourself and prove it with data, and tell them exactly what to do
Find the defect and the true root cause