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      11-18-2018, 04:04 AM   #45
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So I work for RedBull Racing on Daniel Ricciardo car crew so I’m probably a little better in the know/less likely to go off media hype/albeit perhaps slightly biased (Daniels the better driver anyway, and what?)
I do however think that Max with hindsight should’ve just let him by without losing time and then overtaken after Ocon inevitably cooked his tyres in a slower car, regardless though Ocon should’ve have put himself in the situation with the leader whoever it was. It has however got everyone talking about it more than lewis wining it, so who’s the real winner from a bigger point of view....
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      11-18-2018, 08:42 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
No. He races with a Dutch license and stated that he's Dutch not Belgian becuase he "feels more Dutch". I wouldn't be so proud of him when he denies his Belgian heritage so blatantly.

From his father's mouth.

"For example, in the eyes of some Belgian media, Max is apparently Belgian. To be honest, I think that's a bit cheap. He's been racing for years but up until a few months ago, no one spoke or wrote anything about Max and now they claim he is theirs. And I completely disagree.

It's true that Max has both nationalities, because Sophie and I were married when Max was born. However, he races and always has raced with a Dutch racing license so from that perspective he is more Dutch than Belgian. And that is the way he feels about it too. If the Dutch play a game of football against Belgium, he'll support the Netherlands. And if he turns eighteen and he has to chose, he'll opt for the Dutch nationality."

Yikes
The only Dutch thing about Max is his F1 license (Dutch flag on his car) and that's all about financial speculation because the Belgian taxes are insane !

Which nationality do you have when you are born in Belgium ? And your ID ,passport and driver license is Belgian ?
At 18 , MAX *had to get* his *Belgian driver license* and *driving test* *here in Belgium* But in the Belgian newspapers he said => I don't give a 5H1T about my driver license , because I'm born for the race !

Please read post # 21 => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1554472

Use Google-translate for this => https://www.demorgen.be/sport/max-ve...belg-bb07b664/
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      11-18-2018, 08:56 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
well, looks like ///M Power won't be having Esteban over for tea & biscuits any time soon

Sometimes my friend....A picture shows more than 1000 words ! (Ocon thinks the whole situation is/was funny)
Judge for yourself ... And I would punch Ocon on his teeth !
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      11-18-2018, 09:53 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
Ocon is a somebody though. He wasn't handed a top F1 car by dad, this is true but when the cars were equal he beat Max up and down the track in F3. The guy finished 8th last year in a sub par car with a team that cant pay their bills. You will see this kid in a top car in the next few years and you'll see him beat MV. Not everyone is born with a silver spoon, some have to get their ass in a kart and grind to the top, others just have to sit in one of the best cars backed by one of the richest teams....
Unfortunately I think Ocon is going to get a short straw in F1. He has talent but no financial backing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woots View Post
So I work for RedBull Racing on Daniel Ricciardo car crew so I’m probably a little better in the know/less likely to go off media hype/albeit perhaps slightly biased (Daniels the better driver anyway, and what?)
I do however think that Max with hindsight should’ve just let him by without losing time and then overtaken after Ocon inevitably cooked his tyres in a slower car, regardless though Ocon should’ve have put himself in the situation with the leader whoever it was. It has however got everyone talking about it more than lewis wining it, so who’s the real winner from a bigger point of view....
Daniel is certainly more easily likeable! I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do at Renault. And you're right -- the mishap spiced up what would have otherwise been a pretty ho-hum race.
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      11-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
some have to get their ass in a kart and grind to the top,
Lol you dont know Verstappen did years of karting?!?
Verstappen and Ocon know eachother from karting
In '10 or '11 they finished 1st and 2nd in the same karting league (wsk euro) where Verstappen easily beat Ocon.

So you're missing some history facts there......
Every F1 driver starts with karting, not the point. I said the grind starts with karting... ending with most others having to grind in F3 through F1 until they are handed a top 6 car. MVs connections and advantages allowed him a fast track through F1 that Ocon was not afforded.... you knew exactly what I meant. If you are denying the kid had a silver spoon through his entire career afforded by his entire family being in racing and his father's f1 connection then I don't know what to say.
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      11-18-2018, 10:32 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
Unfortunately I think Ocon is going to get a short straw in F1. He has talent but no financial backing.
Yea most drivers have to deal with this their entire careers, money is the main driver for these guys. Even in karting, especially in karting actually. Ocon can drive just as well as MV, he showed this in F3. Max is just such an asshole, I cringe during all of his most race crash interviews. How has Daniel not punched this kid out already? After the double move in Baku and just blatantly carrying too much speed in to the turn in Hungary and pushing him off track. Kid is a dick and like Ricciardo says, a sore loser.

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      11-18-2018, 10:43 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
The only Dutch thing about Max is his F1 license (Dutch flag on his car) and that's all about financial speculation because the Belgian taxes are insane !

Which nationality do you have when you are born in Belgium ? And your ID ,passport and driver license is Belgian ?
Highest bracket in Belgium is 50% Netherlands is 52% according to Google. The kid grew up on the boarder of the two countries in a predominantly dutch town with a dutch father that he spent all his time karting and hanging with. They root for Holland in football as the father says, that should show you where his heart is. I don't really care all that much but you are blinded to the fact the kid is a prick because he's affiliated with Belgium. I dont understand how anyone can get behind such an arrogant ahole, but to each their own.
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      11-18-2018, 11:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woots View Post
So I work for RedBull Racing on Daniel Ricciardo car crew so I'm probably a little better in the know/less likely to go off media hype/albeit perhaps slightly biased (Daniels the better driver anyway, and what?)
I do however think that Max with hindsight should've just let him by without losing time and then overtaken after Ocon inevitably cooked his tyres in a slower car, regardless though Ocon should've have put himself in the situation with the leader whoever it was. It has however got everyone talking about it more than lewis wining it, so who's the real winner from a bigger point of view....
Woots, yer just the man I wanted to talk to: this is where Poiseuille Jr. and I sat in 2017 and watched Daniel eat Kimi's lunch.
As luck would have it we were on the lower catwalk returning with 'refreshments' when that pass happened and we could easily see way up the straight. It was easy to have a premonition of what was about to happen, and we did, but we and everybody else in that grandstand was thinking "no way" or "he's not really going to....." even as Daniel was exiting the chicken leaving Kimi checking his wallet. I've been watching this stuff since race tires were treaded and that pass ranks as one of the damnedest things I've seen on a race track.
I envy you working with a driver as elegant Daniel.

(Edit: "chicken" is how A. Prost always pronounced "chicane"......I think deliberately)
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      11-18-2018, 11:21 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
The (idiot) was faster and had beaten Verstappen to the corner/preferred racing line. Said (idiot) also has a right to race and try and unlap himself etc.

Also as to my previous posts Max’s pride/testosterone wouldn’t allow himself to be passed on worn tires and was clearly slower. He crashed himself out of a possible win instead of just being smart and staying out of trouble with somebody that meant nothing to the race. Like I said, when he learns to let go of that crap he’ll be really a formidable force in F1.

Inexplicably Vettel decided to make decisions like he was new to F1 (similar to MVs long string of rash/poor decisions) and it possibly cost him another title. It certainly would of been a lot closer had SV stayed out of trouble he didn’t have to get into.

Plus Karma is a bitch as they say for MV.......lol
Karma and all the other religions are fairytales ...
But what the idiot did to Max is/was no fairytale !
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      11-18-2018, 11:21 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poiseuille View Post
so after all these replays, and several days to think it over, I find I can't decide. the conclusion "racing incident" seems inevitable. these are two uber-aggressive drivers, if they weren't they wouldn't be where they are. remember what Senna said about a driver who sees an opening and doesn't go for it?
anyway, I think this can be reduced to two points:
1. Ocon was not going to win that race
2. Max was going to win that race
so if you're Ocon you're thinking "I'm going for it, Max will never throw the race away for no gain". He might have unlapped himself.
if you're Max, you SHOULD have thought (imho) "I've raced this guy for 10 years, of course he'll go for that opening. I'll let him go then draft him for the next eight laps. He's faster on the straight than I am anyway and he has better tires". And Max would have won that race. Which is, after all, his job.
None of this, of course, takes into account the several milliseconds provided to make this decision not to mention our old friend The Red Mist.

so at the end of the day, this is a racing incident. assigning fault is pointless.
shit happens.

just my opinion.

Edit: inoculating myself now before ///M Power sees this post==> I'm Dutch.
Nice ! But MAX is actually *Belgian* my friend
well, at least we can all agree on one thing: this guy is definitely Belgian.
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      11-18-2018, 11:34 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
Highest bracket in Belgium is 50% Netherlands is 52% according to Google. The kid grew up on the boarder of the two countries in a predominantly dutch town with a dutch father that he spent all his time karting and hanging with. They root for Holland in football as the father says, that should show you where his heart is. I don't really care all that much but you are blinded to the fact the kid is a prick because he's affiliated with Belgium. I dont understand how anyone can get behind such an arrogant ahole, but to each their own.
Max in born September 30 , 1997 in *Hasselt* (Belgium)
Hasselt is nowhere close to the Dutch border . I live 23km from Hasselt and I'm closer to Holland .
I drive everyday to Hasselt because my company is located in Hasselt ..
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      11-18-2018, 12:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
Every F1 driver starts with karting, not the point. I said the grind starts with karting... ending with most others having to grind in F3 through F1 until they are handed a top 6 car. MVs connections and advantages allowed him a fast track through F1 that Ocon was not afforded.... you knew exactly what I meant. If you are denying the kid had a silver spoon through his entire career afforded by his entire family being in racing and his father's f1 connection then I don't know what to say.
Even with your silver spoon Max showed in karting he was the best , he ran with the worldtop from day 1 !
MAX at *age 4* Yes he was only 4 ! Drove his first karting race in Genk and Max won the race !
What Max showed in karting in Genk was beyond believe , a born winner !

The picture shows your silver spoon ...
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      11-18-2018, 12:39 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Karma and all the other religions are fairytales ...
But what the idiot did to Max is/was no fairytale !
Agreed and nor is Max’s long string of poor decisions leading to incidents like this.
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      11-18-2018, 01:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Agreed and nor is Max’s long string of poor decisions leading to incidents like this.
Max's long string of poor decisions leading him to the *Guinness Book of Records* !!!


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      11-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Ocon chose a point to unlap Verstappen where Verstappen had to deviate from the ideal driving line. Also he still wasnt past Verstappen when they collided (Verstappens front wheel was in front of Ocon's one).
Imho thats not allowed.
If he wanted to pass Verstappen he should have done it on another spot. When they drove up to the straight there was maybe 6-10 car lenghts in between so Ocon only just passed Verstappen at the end. If Ocon wanted to pass Verstappen without hindering him, he should have taken care of that distance at the beginning and be 2-3 car lengths behind Verstappen when they drove onto the straight.
So pretty poor judgement from Ocon if you ask me.
This is the biggest problem for me. Max was told that Ocon was on fresh Super Soft tyres. max was on much older tyres. He knew he wasn't racing Ocon, but STILL felt the need to block Ocon on the pit straight.

Had he not done that, Ocon would have easily cruised past, unlapped himself, and opened up a gap. If Verstappen managed to catch up to him again, blue flags would have been shown, and Verstappen could lap him again.

Sadly, Verstappen used his heart instead his head, to made a dscision, and a badly one at that.

He must just remember one thing there will be a lot of other young and upcoming new drivers - Ocon, Leclerc, George Russell, etc, who could / will end up in competitive cars. They will want to show everyone that they are a match for him, and will not shy away from confrontation.
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      11-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoral View Post
Regardless of how you feel, I found the following the best video the whole incident before and after, as seen by Ocon starting with his pit stop and both radio communication of Ocon and Verstappen:

https://streamable.com/fkpqj

As Ocon exits pits, he is shown blue flags with Hamilton behind. Ocon says on radio, blue flags are gone, he starts closing on Verstappen. He is told he can pass Verstappen if he wants.

Verstappen on radio says "I have this Force India behind me pushing."
"Understood," is the response from the RBR pit wall, "he’s out there on fresh supers."

Then look at the closing speed of Ocon on Verstappen. No F1 driver on the grid is going to slam on the brakes with that kind of closing speed just because he is the leader. He went well past him (or at least even) so Max knew he would be on the inside of the next corner. Did he think Ocon was going to disappear or drive off track?

In hindsight, when Force India told Ocon he can pass Verstappen if he wants, it should have been stressed to make it clean, he is the leader.

And I think RBR should have have amended their statement "Understood, he's out there on fresh supers -- let him go, Hamilton still x seconds behind, you're not racing Ocon"
The similar situation happens all the time in race. If the race leader yield to slower car every time, he will not lead any more. At that moment, at position of Max, he has to pick a decision. His decision was made based on the experience and history of this race that 15th position car never fight with leader. Ocon definitely know Max will fight and keep better line, his decision was whether to fight back, and you can definitely see the acceleration into Max's inside line. If look at the corner before, Max already protects his line which told the car behind that he needed his line.

To make it simple, Max already showed the signal that he wanted his line and he knew who was behind. Ocon knew the situation. Max would not expect Ocon to fight that hard, neither would anyone else in the race. That being said Ocon made a decision that was unpredictable which caused the accident.

Maybe the right statement for Ocon should be "You can pass Verstappen with caution and no fight".
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      11-18-2018, 03:01 PM   #61
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Hamilton said after the race to MAX => *Ocon had nothing to lose*

Hamilton's comment was clearly BS ! Check this out....
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      11-18-2018, 03:21 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1-fan View Post
This is the biggest problem for me. Max was told that Ocon was on fresh Super Soft tyres. max was on much older tyres. He knew he wasn't racing Ocon, but STILL felt the need to block Ocon on the pit straight.
He didnt block Ocon. He kept driving the ideal driving line.
Ocon forced him aside in the corner where the crash happened. Ocon wasnt even past him when they crashed. Even if this was a fight for a place this wouldnt be allowed imho.
Ocon got punished for his move so there is no question who made the illegal move.

Only in hindsight can one say that if he let Ocon pass and offered up some precious seconds from his lead that would be the right move but at that point in the race he still had to complete almost 30 rounds and the lead he had over Hamilton was only 10-15 sec or so. Loosing 1 or 2 sec then is a big deal. You dont know if there will be more of these situations.
Verstappen rightfully said about hamiltons remarks that thats easy coming from someone who's driving in 2nd place and gets the victory thrown in his lap.
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      11-18-2018, 04:15 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Even with your silver spoon Max showed in karting he was the best , he ran with the worldtop from day 1 !
MAX at *age 4* Yes he was only 4 ! Drove his first karting race in Genk and Max won the race !
What Max showed in karting in Genk was beyond believe , a born winner !

The picture shows your silver spoon ...
I'm sorry i don't know how to reply to you anymore. You are a fanboy, not gonna change your mind with facts,
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      11-18-2018, 04:20 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Only in hindsight can one say that if he let Ocon pass and offered up some precious seconds from his lead that would be the right move but at that point in the race he still had to complete almost 30 rounds and the lead he had over Hamilton was only 10-15 sec or so. Loosing 1 or 2 sec then is a big deal. You dont know if there will be more of these situations.
But this is part of racing. You have to make the smartest decision, which MV did not. If he had a clean driving record, then people would give him the benefit of the doubt but... he has shown in the past that he is careless and reckless in corners. All race leaders deal with this, making the best decision is what someone like LH does.
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      11-18-2018, 04:30 PM   #65
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I'm sorry i don't know how to reply to you anymore. You are a fanboy, not gonna change your mind with facts,
#diehardsupporter !
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      11-18-2018, 06:25 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatenEye View Post
If he had a clean driving record then people would give him the benefit of the doubt but he has shown in the past that he is careless and reckless in corners.
Verstappens driving record is not relevant here.
Ocon got punished for his move which shows that Verstappen was not at fault but Ocon was.
Ocon had no right to push him off the track the way he did.
You might think differently, but the people who have a say in this decided it was Ocons fault.
The only thing Verstappen did wrong was his behaviour right after the race, but I can imagine he was pumped with adrenaline after being illegally pushed off the track by a lesser driver.
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