Is there an EDR or "black box" in our M3's?

[masmole]

I know we have lots of gadgets in our cars, most with an iDrive user interface at the center of it all, and I am fully aware that basic system checks are recorded whether by flags or internal alerts by the system for the benefit of the diagnosis during service visits, and even prior to visits (like brake sensor wear, fluid levels, and fault codes and such) to alert the dealer via telematics of a problem with the vehicle that the owner may be overlooking. That's fine and all. But I'm not talking about that.

What I'm talking about is a full-on EDR (electronic data recorder) that actually records how we drive our cars. A device that records yaw rate, speed, rpms, how many time the redline has been hit, brake temps, all within a timeline and in such a way that the dealer can visualize how the car was driven and know whether or not you were driving Miss Daisy or driving like Kimi Raikonnen with a gorilla suit on. Do we have such a device? This has been an heated issue of contention with the Nissan GT-R crowd being that it is a seriously high performing machine that most of its owners will exploit, yet on their next service visit, their respective dealers will know whether or not they've been bad behind the wheel and can easily place fault on the owner if certain things in the car break in a certain way.

Check this article out: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...8/newsletter01

I think it's crap. And I'm confident that BMW doesn't do this with its current cars (at least not to the extent the Nissan's EDR is capable of) since I've tracked my M5 many times and my dealer has never once questioned how I use my performance car, not have they refused repair on any items that broke during such use.

if you buy a performance car like an M3 or GT-R, you damn well better be able to drive however you want to drive it without any fear of getting a scolding by a dealer who was electronically eavesdropping via a "black box" no less.

[watrob]

I don't know to what extent the edr is in the BMW but I do know that if you have a crash they can check what speed you were doing.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by watrob

I don't know to what extent the edr is in the BMW but I do know that if you have a crash they can check what speed you were doing.

As stated in some articles, the Germans have been more resistant to full-on data recording. I think events just before an accident are kept in memory. Possibly the amount of time spent at redline, as I know that was possible on the E46.

[sfbimmer13]

does anybody know how long data will be stored? There has to be some sort of limit - storage space related.

[MDCTFTW]

It's probably a USB stick hidden somewhere. Haha.

[Ramphaus]

there's gotta be some code to disable this...

[Kobaiyashi]

a salesmen told me that if you ride your clutch, they'll know about it via the car's computer. Have no idea if that's true or not....

[flyinbrian]

Originally Posted by Kobaiyashi

a salesmen told me that if you ride your clutch, they'll know about it via the car's computer. Have no idea if that's true or not....

Must be true then.

[chris719]

I would be shocked if these could be turned off at all. They are probably designed in at a level where it becomes nearly impossible for a 3rd party to disable, like inside the software of essential systems. Problem is, if you got access to the binary stored in the EEPROMs or flash you would have to tamper with it without breaking it, and without causing stuff like checksums or CRCs to become invalid.

The best place to log this data is probably at the microcontroller that actually acquires the data or closes a loop for any particular group of sensors. It would be trivial for the engineers doing the development to add logging functions inside their modules. To expose the data later is also very easy. There is a limited amount of data that you can store, but as flash becomes cheaper and higher density the log durations will grow. If the flash is not embedded inside the MCU it might be possible to destroy it, but that would be pretty evident.

[ersin]

My understanding is that in the event of a crash the last few seconds of data is stored. US car companies started this so they could gather data on how well their airbags worked. But cops can use this to incriminate folks in an accident. I am also pretty sure that if the car has this capability then the dealer has a legal obligation to tell you so. I'm sure BMW records some of this info, but to what extent I do not know.

[SS32]

My buddy got busted for topping out his mom's Z4 a few years ago. When she took it in for service they asked her where she had had the car up to 145. So it definitely records more than just moments before a crash.

[synclastica_86]

Any lawyers in here? I want to talk about legal issues here. I mean, can they do this? Is this invaiding into out privacy? Recording how and where we drive surely sounds big brotherish to me. What's next, gathering data about who we hook-up at the club last night? This is not china... we have rights here.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Any lawyers in here? I want to talk about legal issues here. I mean, can they do this? Is this invaiding into out privacy? Recording how and where we drive surely sounds big brotherish to me. What's next, gathering data about who we hook-up at the club last night? This is not china... we have rights here.

Mate, if you cross the lane doing 100mph and collect an oncoming car, the black box is going to be the least of your worries.

If the black box can prove I was not speeding and the accident is then not my fault I am all for it. And if it is my fault I would own upto it anyway, you can't have it one way.

It's only a problem for people who break the law, this privacy thing only upsets people & companies that wish to hide something.

[JMD0977]

Originally Posted by cowmoo32

My buddy got busted for topping out his mom's Z4 a few years ago. When she took it in for service they asked her where she had had the car up to 145. So it definitely records more than just moments before a crash.

Uhhh...so they'll know I hit 155-160mph every other day???
Shit....

[watrob]

Originally Posted by JMD0977

Uhhh...so they'll know I hit 155-160mph every other day???
Shit....

So now you know that when you change the ECU and pull 8800 rev and the motor goes bang the dealer is going to charge you for a new motor.

I know a e46 M3 owner a few years ago blew a motor and he had to pay for it because to changes the rev limit & speed limit, ouch.

Unles you can wipe or reset the info in the black box before you take it to the dealer, I would zap the black box or poor water over it.

[rzm3]

a while ago CNN reported a man being convicted purely based on data from the box after he had hit and killed another driver. according to the box, he was going 60 or something in a 30mph zone. he, of course, denies it.

[MVEED3]

Originally Posted by cowmoo32

My buddy got busted for topping out his mom's Z4 a few years ago. When she took it in for service they asked her where she had had the car up to 145. So it definitely records more than just moments before a crash.

HAHAHAHA. Your friend fell for his mom's bait. She just tested him to see if he did go that fast. Oooops! This data is not accessed at a random service.


Allen

[knifegun]

They definitely record RPM. That it is why it is important that you follow the break in procedure regardless of whether you believe in it or not. Because if something does go wrong with your engine and you went past the recommended 5500 rpm limit in the first 1200 miles, BMW of NA can deny the warranty based and place the cost on you. This includes not driving the car off the lot after your 1200 mile service and redlining it all the way home.

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by knifegun

They definitely record RPM.

they knew the RPM of my friend's E46 when he blew his motor (part of the ealry 2002 recall)...he was concerned that they were not going to warrant it...they did

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by watrob

Unles you can wipe or reset the info in the black box before you take it to the dealer, I would zap the black box or poor water over it.

I know that comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek but...

I would not be surprised if that voids your warranty too. Even if it doesn't explicity say so anywhere, good luck getting BMW to settle out of court, and good luck making your case in court...

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by ideliver

they knew the RPM of my friend's E46 when he blew his motor (part of the ealry 2002 recall)...he was concerned that they were not going to warrant it...they did

Yes. It is up to the BMW of NA rep that checks the car out. The dealer can also help pursuade the rep. That is why it is important to purchase your car from a good dealership and have a good relationship with them. A good dealership is paramount when you spend this kind of cash IMHO.

[SS32]

Originally Posted by MVEED3

HAHAHAHA. Your friend fell for his mom's bait. She just tested him to see if he did go that fast. Oooops! This data is not accessed at a random service.


Allen

Not how it happened at all.