[eliphil]

Originally Posted by 2022M550i

I checked out a G60 when I was getting my car serviced. The sales people were looking at the expressions on my face...they just smiled shaking their heads. They know. Their livelihoods depend on selling that cocka.

Some say we'll get used to it...it's new. Change is good. Yeah, tell that to muscle car enthusiasts as the 70's progressed. Case and point. What a difference 4 years can make.

Attachment 3419830

Attachment 3419831

How appropriate evolution isn’t always positive

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

It's funny how back in the day, texting and driving was a hazard. Now you have iPads in cars

Underrated post.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by eliphil

How appropriate evolution isn’t always positive

Right. Just take a look at humanity

[NGT2]

They’ll either sell the new ones like hotcakes and pronounce it a success or they won’t sell and they’ll announce the death of demand for executive sedans. They’ll never admit it isn’t a very engaging car.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by NGT2

They’ll either sell the new ones like hotcakes and pronounce it a success or they won’t sell and they’ll announce the death of demand for executive sedans. They’ll never admit it isn’t a very engaging car.

I am confident the new 5 is not selling well in the US, at least here in California which is one of the hottest BMW markets. Honestly that doesn’t make me happy.

I would love to consider a new 5, I prefer sedans, but BMW has turned off a lot of us who have been loyal customers with an overpriced, lesser car that does not spark excitement. I have zero interest in the i5 and spending my time in the G60 forum justifying my poor range numbers and how I am saving the world from pollution.

I saw this today and at least the Genesis G80 Magma Special has some pizzaz, even though they won’t sell it in the US. The Magma X Gran Berlinetta Concept is exciting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN2cBhxxjDw

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VkNoSMR9F-s

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by jcal65

I am confident the new 5 is not selling well in the US, at least here in California which is one of the hottest BMW markets. Honestly that doesn’t make me happy.

I would love to consider a new 5, I prefer sedans, but BMW has turned off a lot of us who have been loyal customers with an overpriced, lesser car that does not spark excitement. I have zero interest in the i5 and spending my time in the G60 forum justifying my poor range numbers and how I am saving the world from pollution.

I saw this today and at least the Genesis G80 Magma Special has some pizzaz, even though they won’t sell it in the US. The Magma X Gran Berlinetta Concept is exciting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN2cBhxxjDw

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VkNoSMR9F-s

As much as I can understand your point about the G60 and a particular segment of BMW's customers, I suspect it will generally sell fine in the US, where cars are typically set up to be much less engaging than on the Continent.

US roads are much wider, the speed limits slower (I can't believe how slow it feels when I go "home"), and many people are (generally) not interested in the finer points of driving engagment.

Heck, even on BMW forums there seem to be quite a few people more interested in the quality of their upholstery and stereo than driving dynamics, engagement, feedback, and the related components.

I would argue that the G60 is exactly what most people want in the States, and that if you gave it better looks, it would be quite well liked.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Neusser

As much as I can understand your point about the G60 and a particular segment of BMW's customers, I suspect it will generally sell fine in the US, where cars are typically set up to be much less engaging than on the Continent.

US roads are much wider, the speed limits slower (I can't believe how slow it feels when I go "home"), and many people are (generally) not interested in the finer points of driving engagment.

Heck, even on BMW forums there seem to be quite a few people more interested in the quality of their upholstery and stereo than driving dynamics, engagement, feedback, and the related components.

I would argue that the G60 is exactly what most people want in the States, and that if you gave it better looks, it would be quite well liked.

I hear what you’re saying but what frustrated me about the 3 and 4 with the lack of seat/trim/finish/stereo upgrades is that in 2024 you can have the driving and the amenities. I tested an Audi S5 Sportback and it was just a nicer car than the 3 or 4. Not as well performing but it has Nappa leather, leather dash, nice stereo, comfortable seats, and hardly any plastic. Door cards were a nice alcantara like material.

Looking around at other cars has sharpened my eye on my G30 also. I wish I’d found one optioned with leather dash and alcantara headliner, but it’s a really well done interior. Subtle, not flashy, but well done. Nice seats, nice leather, including on the doorcard. Even the base sensatech dash has stitching and a nice appearance (though it does clash some with the smooth Nappa leather). It’s more subtle than some others but it’s hard to argue any others are better quality.

So it’s possible to make a car that performs well, looks as sits in a sporty fashion, and also appeals to the American luxury market. Mercedes, BMW, Audi have all been succeeding at that for years. Now all of a sudden, because of electrification, it’s like that mission has just been abandoned.

[CMK]

I am willing to give the NK (sedan) a chance and really see what BMW does with it. I bought my M550i with the intention of it serving as my last fully ICE car, and to last for several years while electric cars as a concept "bake" some more. As it stands, BEVs just don't offer what I (and most) are looking for in a car.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by Neusser

As much as I can understand your point about the G60 and a particular segment of BMW's customers, I suspect it will generally sell fine in the US, where cars are typically set up to be much less engaging than on the Continent.

Well, that would be tragic because it will encourage BMW to continue down this line

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by adhrp

Well, that would be tragic because it will encourage BMW to continue down this line

Prepare thyself for tragedy, my friend. Sucks.

[Chappers 71]

Hmm…newer isn’t always better

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by CMK

I am willing to give the NK (sedan) a chance and really see what BMW does with it. I bought my M550i with the intention of it serving as my last fully ICE car, and to last for several years while electric cars as a concept "bake" some more. As it stands, BEVs just don't offer what I (and most) are looking for in a car.

Saw an ad for a local Ford dealer a week or two ago. They were advertising a low-price lease for the "Mustang" EV. They were proud to announce they had 83 2023's ready to deliver... EIGHTY-THREE!! Ford has reportedly lost 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS on their EV line!

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Saw an ad for a local Ford dealer a week or two ago. They were advertising a low-price lease for the "Mustang" EV. They were proud to announce they had 83 2023's ready to deliver... EIGHTY-THREE!! Ford has reportedly lost 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS on their EV line!

The government is pushing it. So they will subsidize however they have to.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Saw an ad for a local Ford dealer a week or two ago. They were advertising a low-price lease for the "Mustang" EV. They were proud to announce they had 83 2023's ready to deliver... EIGHTY-THREE!! Ford has reportedly lost 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS on their EV line!

The world's largest Mercedes dealer in Newport Beach is offering incentives to move overpriced EV's as well. 128 EQS's and 107 EQE's available. Just a little over a year ago, guys in the Mercedes forum were paying upwards of $40k over MSRP to get an EQS. Many are listed for around $60k on the used lot now. My local Ford dealer has 60 Mach-E's they are having trouble unloading.

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by NGT2

Prepare thyself for tragedy, my friend. Sucks.

The real tragedy will be if Porsche also fucks up their designs in another 8-10 years (which is when I anticipate being in the market again).

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by Neusser

As much as I can understand your point about the G60 and a particular segment of BMW's customers, I suspect it will generally sell fine in the US, where cars are typically set up to be much less engaging than on the Continent.

US roads are much wider, the speed limits slower (I can't believe how slow it feels when I go "home"), and many people are (generally) not interested in the finer points of driving engagment.

Heck, even on BMW forums there seem to be quite a few people more interested in the quality of their upholstery and stereo than driving dynamics, engagement, feedback, and the related components.

I would argue that the G60 is exactly what most people want in the States, and that if you gave it better looks, it would be quite well liked.

I guess that is kind of my point too, BMW and its customers have shifted away from traditional roots. One of the hot topics currently in the G60 forum is discussing their favorite ambient lighting colors and expressive modes. Times change and some say this is progress while some of us don’t.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by jcal65

I guess that is kind of my point too, BMW and its customers have shifted away from traditional roots. One of the hot topics currently in the G60 forum is discussing their favorite ambient lighting colors and expressive modes. Times change and some say this is progress while some of us don’t.

I think BMW got new customers more than BMW customers shifted. I’m sure it’s also driven by new generations of decision makers and the drive for profit and growth.

There are two basic attitudes:

“I have a product in mind that I believe there is a market for, and I will make that product the best I can and attract that market”

“There is a market and they want X so I shall make X”

Of course you have to blend the two, but today it’s much more about the latter than the former.

[AP]

Originally Posted by jcal65

I guess that is kind of my point too, BMW and its customers have shifted away from traditional roots. One of the hot topics currently in the G60 forum is discussing their favorite ambient lighting colors and expressive modes. Times change and some say this is progress while some of us don’t.

Yeh it’s a completely different set of priorities for this car it would seem
Example have you ever wanted a car that can play games and take selfies…..
The ultimate driving machine? Mmmm I don’t think so

[tjbuggy2b]

Well, to me, the dynamic seems to be that the 5 series has shifted more to the luxury daily driver that still feels sporty and still has a semblance of satisfaction to drive. The 2, 3, and 4 series seems to be where all the "real" performance has shifted. ...and I'm ok with that. The size of all series has increased and, tbh, the G30 is a bit of a pig. So, realistically, the smaller chassis cars are more appropriate for enthusiasts and occasional track days.

That being said, I haven't driven the G60. ...or an M3/4, for that matter. So, maybe my opinion doesn't count. lol.

To be fair, though, the entire performance car market has shifted to big horsepower over handling. In terms of making a "drivers car", there's no real need for 617 HP in the F90 M5 Comp. 400 HP and a superb suspension will satisfy 99.999% of sporty drivers and, if there's anything we've learned recently about HP upgrades, it's pretty easy to get another 100-200 HP out of these cars if you really it. Hell, I'd argue that nearly none of us would put the 330ish HP of our 540i's to proper use on a race track.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by AP

Yeh it’s a completely different set of priorities for this car it would seem
Example have you ever wanted a car that can play games and take selfies…..
The ultimate driving machine? Mmmm I don’t think so

I don’t hate the new G60, I don’t love it either. I just see this as another example of becoming more of an automated, non-tactile appliance loaded with gimmicks to entice the masses to make up for lost soul, while appeasing the government idiots who seem to know better than we do how to live our lives. The prices have reached a level that pushes away any interest for me on a vehicle that does not “wow” me or seem special.

I am not opposed to change for the better. I am opposed to the government mandating my buying decisions. Obviously, it’s not just BMW going along with forced changes; it is everywhere in everything.

Many think this is great progress and get sucked into the hype, I don’t. Just peruse the G60 forum, especially the i5 owners, who justify poor range, lack of physical controls, synthetic seats, overcomplicated basic functions like changing temperature or adjusting the seat, and lots of plastic inside and out. Some brag they leased the i5 because they will just chuck it to the next loser when the lease runs out because better EV technology is coming, and this thing will be a worthless “dog” with a giant battery before heading for the hazardous waste dump. This is progress.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by jcal65

I guess that is kind of my point too, BMW and its customers have shifted away from traditional roots. One of the hot topics currently in the G60 forum is discussing their favorite ambient lighting colors and expressive modes. Times change and some say this is progress while some of us don’t.

I agree to a point. I really don't think much of BMW's US market was ever made up of enthusiasts. BMW just chose to define itself as a performance-oriented brand (and did indeed deliver).

Someone mentioned the G60 forums being full of guys going on about tech and taking a disposable-product attitude toward the G60. I really don't think this is new, but I do agree that it is new for the brand itself to shift so far in this direction.

[Warp Ten]

Originally Posted by jcal65

I guess that is kind of my point too, BMW and its customers have shifted away from traditional roots. One of the hot topics currently in the G60 forum is discussing their favorite ambient lighting colors and expressive modes. Times change and some say this is progress while some of us don’t.

Exactly. Everywhere I look, someone keeps moving my cheese. --Bob