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      10-14-2021, 12:11 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
I am not sure this is ever going to be possible with BT5 and Wifi that are similar in terms of bandwidth. It's going to take a new BT standard to be able to stream lossless wirelessly, but one can hope. The other issue is that 90% of the public thinks BT streaming sounds great, so the demand may not be there for lossless wireless support.

Now, if Apple CarPlay could support a USB device as part of the interface, that would be sweet, but that ain't gonna happen.
WiFi has a lot more bandwidth available than BT and has more than enough bandwidth to support lossless audio.

But the unknown to me is whether CarPlay uses 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz WiFi and how much bandwidth does it use driving the display and other functions (how much headroom is left for audio).

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      10-14-2021, 12:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
WiFi has a lot more bandwidth available than BT and has more than enough bandwidth to support lossless audio.

But the unknown to me is whether CarPlay uses 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz WiFi and how much bandwidth does it use driving the display and other functions (how much headroom is left for audio).

Attachment 2719668
Interesting, thanks for this, I am hopeful for someday. Question, in a car with wired CarPlay, do you know if lossless is achievable? You would think so, it's coming off the phone and through USB.
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      10-14-2021, 12:34 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
I am not sure this is ever going to be possible with BT5 and Wifi that are similar in terms of bandwidth. It's going to take a new BT standard to be able to stream lossless wirelessly, but one can hope. The other issue is that 90% of the public thinks BT streaming sounds great, so the demand may not be there for lossless wireless support.

Now, if Apple CarPlay could support a USB device as part of the interface, that would be sweet, but that ain't gonna happen.
WiFi has a lot more bandwidth available than BT and has more than enough bandwidth to support lossless audio.

But the unknown to me is whether CarPlay uses 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz WiFi and how much bandwidth does it use driving the display and other functions (how much headroom is left for audio).

Attachment 2719668
Wireless Carplay uses 5Ghz wifi as does Android Auto.

Lossless audio is coming to Bluetooth later this year via Aptx Lossless. This is a Qualcomm patented product so who know what it will take for Apple to jump on board or develop their own version.
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      10-14-2021, 12:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
Interesting, thanks for this, I am hopeful for someday. Question, in a car with wired CarPlay, do you know if lossless is achievable? You would think so, it's coming off the phone and through USB.
Yeah for wired CarPlay implementations lossless is fully supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Wireless Carplay uses 5Ghz wifi as does Android Auto.

Lossless audio is coming to Bluetooth later this year via Aptx Lossless. This is a Qualcomm patented product so who know what it will take for Apple to jump on board or develop their own version.
That’s what I thought, but wasn’t 100% sure. So the bandwidth is there for lossless support (assuming too much isn’t already eaten up driving the CarPlay UI and other sensor data). As I doubt audio is coming via BlueTooth in this case. My understanding was that CarPlay only leverages BlueTooth for the initial handshake and jumps to wireless once that’s done.

I also believe you can plug in via USB and set iDrive to USB, but control it via CarPlay as well. Meaning you can use both simultaneously, but my memory is a bit foggy here so I’d have to confirm it next time I’m in the car.
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      10-14-2021, 01:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
Interesting, thanks for this, I am hopeful for someday. Question, in a car with wired CarPlay, do you know if lossless is achievable? You would think so, it's coming off the phone and through USB.
Yeah for wired CarPlay implementations lossless is fully supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Wireless Carplay uses 5Ghz wifi as does Android Auto.

Lossless audio is coming to Bluetooth later this year via Aptx Lossless. This is a Qualcomm patented product so who know what it will take for Apple to jump on board or develop their own version.
That’s what I thought, but wasn’t 100% sure. So the bandwidth is there for lossless support (assuming too much isn’t already eaten up driving the CarPlay UI and other sensor data). As I doubt audio is coming via BlueTooth in this case. My understanding was that CarPlay only leverages BlueTooth for the initial handshake and jumps to wireless once that’s done.

I also believe you can plug in via USB and set iDrive to USB, but control it via CarPlay as well. Meaning you can use both simultaneously, but my memory is a bit foggy here so I’d have to confirm it next time I’m in the car.
On the last part, you actually have to disable or uncheck CarPlay in iDrive to get the USB to recognize an iPhone. So, no, you can't use CarPlay with a USB connect and you can't even use CarPlay at all if you want to use USB to read your phone. Non starter for me, I need to use Maps a lot.
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      10-14-2021, 01:22 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
On the last part, you actually have to disable or uncheck CarPlay in iDrive to get the USB to recognize an iPhone. So, no, you can't use CarPlay with a USB connect and you can't even use CarPlay at all if you want to use USB to read your phone. Non starter for me, I need to use Maps a lot.
Thanks for clarifying. I must have been manually toggling between the two when I tested lossless.

I don’t use CarPlay much so I always forget what limitations are imposed with it. I’m odd and I prefer BMW Maps.
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      10-14-2021, 02:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I must have been manually toggling between the two when I tested lossless.

I don’t use CarPlay much so I always forget what limitations are imposed with it. I’m odd and I prefer BMW Maps.
One of these days I am going to have to try the Onboard Navigation. It's just so easy typing a few bits of an address or business name in your phone and hitting go and then it's on your CarPlay screen. The other integration is Calendar which pretty much supports all Calendars - Exchange, Outlook, Gmail, etc. Get a pop on the phone - "It's time to leave for Meeting or Reservations" and boom, Maps is going.

Apple has a stranglehold on things with their ecosystem.
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      10-14-2021, 02:38 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
One of these days I am going to have to try the Onboard Navigation. It's just so easy typing a few bits of an address or business name in your phone and hitting go and then it's on your CarPlay screen. The other integration is Calendar which pretty much supports all Calendars - Exchange, Outlook, Gmail, etc. Get a pop on the phone - "It's time to leave for Meeting or Reservations" and boom, Maps is going.

Apple has a stranglehold on things with their ecosystem.
BMW is pretty good too, but we’re still waiting to see if they bring back some features from the old ConnectedDrive app.

The onboard maps is pretty solid and searching for designations is pretty accurate via voice or text input and works with a few characters typed in. On the phone I can send to MyBMW using the share sheet and it is ready once I get into the car.

What I do miss (and you still get) is the calendar integration. In the old ConnectedDrive app as soon as I got into the car ahead of a calendar appointment with an address on the event the car would prompt me to go to that destination. Until this comes back Apple Maps in CarPlay has a leg up.

I try out CarPlay a lot, but it hasn’t pulled me over just yet (I can’t wait for the new detailed map data in NYC to come to Philly in a month or two. That might pull me over.). Thankfully we get the option of both and can flip between them with ease. You can even try out BMW Maps without disabling CarPlay!

I also really really like how well BMW Maps reports hazards and the like. Such as this one where I was coming to a wall of traffic that was around a curve in the highway. Looked super clear and was moving over 60MPH until you come around the corner. This is a common source of crashes here in Philly since we have so many curves in our highways and you often get clear traffic and come around a bend to a wall of cars…

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      10-14-2021, 03:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33 View Post
One of these days I am going to have to try the Onboard Navigation. It's just so easy typing a few bits of an address or business name in your phone and hitting go and then it's on your CarPlay screen. The other integration is Calendar which pretty much supports all Calendars - Exchange, Outlook, Gmail, etc. Get a pop on the phone - "It's time to leave for Meeting or Reservations" and boom, Maps is going.

Apple has a stranglehold on things with their ecosystem.
BMW is pretty good too, but we're still waiting to see if they bring back some features from the old ConnectedDrive app.

The onboard maps is pretty solid and searching for designations is pretty accurate via voice or text input and works with a few characters typed in. On the phone I can send to MyBMW using the share sheet and it is ready once I get into the car.

What I do miss (and you still get) is the calendar integration. In the old ConnectedDrive app as soon as I got into the car ahead of a calendar appointment with an address on the event the car would prompt me to go to that destination. Until this comes back Apple Maps in CarPlay has a leg up.

I try out CarPlay a lot, but it hasn't pulled me over just yet (I can't wait for the new detailed map data in NYC to come to Philly in a month or two. That might pull me over.). Thankfully we get the option of both and can flip between them with ease. You can even try out BMW Maps without disabling CarPlay!

I also really really like how well BMW Maps reports hazards and the like. Such as this one where I was coming to a wall of traffic that was around a curve in the highway. Looked super clear and was moving over 60MPH until you come around the corner. This is a common source of crashes here in Philly since we have so many curves in our highways and you often get clear traffic and come around a bend to a wall of cars…

Attachment 2719774

Attachment 2719775

Attachment 2719776
Thanks for this. BMW nav still reports hazards while using Apple Maps. Pretty cool
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      10-17-2021, 12:28 PM   #54
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Fixed!

So I did the upgrade on my iPhone X to 15.0.2 but still had the same issues with CarPlay constantly disconnecting or not connecting at all.
I removed that phone from the infotainment and set up my wife's iPhone 12 Pro. Works flawlessly! Looks like I need a new phone.
Thanks again for all that responded. You guys know way more than the dealers.
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      10-17-2021, 12:37 PM   #55
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I have an Xs and 15 is working fine on the phone. Pretty fast and other than a screen that does not open smoothly it’s solid.

As far a CarPlay goes Waze was using Apple Maps. Restated the phone and infotainment system and it self corrected.

I was not seeing police and getting warnings not could I leave them.
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      10-17-2021, 02:54 PM   #56
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Just stared using Apple Maps as I like the turn info on the HUD. Couple of times after running for about 30 min the turn voice info starting getting all choppy and slow that I couldn't hear the info. Disappointing as for areas I'm not familiar with I will use Apple Maps because of Navi in the HUD. I hope this problem fixes itself.
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      10-17-2021, 05:21 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton Melon View Post
So I did the upgrade on my iPhone X to 15.0.2 but still had the same issues with CarPlay constantly disconnecting or not connecting at all.
I removed that phone from the infotainment and set up my wife's iPhone 12 Pro. Works flawlessly! Looks like I need a new phone.
Thanks again for all that responded. You guys know way more than the dealers.
Yeah I had a feeling it was your phone which is why I suggested troubleshooting with another phone for starters.

Good excuse to get the 13 Pro Max.
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      10-19-2021, 12:41 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
That's why I'm always cautious on recommending a .0 release and definitely not a beta unless I know the person is tech savvy. I'm a Software Engineer so running the bleeding edge isn't a problem for me in the slightest. I can work around bugs if I need to or revert to an older version if I need to since I have backups and all that jazz. But a regular user is less likely to be able to do so.

iOS 15 has been pretty solid for me as well. I've encountered a few bugs, but I wouldn't call them showstoppers for my workflow. I am aware of online complaints of impacts to other people's workflows though...

Ideally we'll get 15.1 next week and macOS 12 as well.
15.1 is out
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      10-19-2021, 01:26 PM   #59
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15.1 is out
The Release Candidate is out, but we’ll see the OTA next week according to Apple for everyone to jump on.

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      10-20-2021, 07:13 AM   #60
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How do you like Tidal? Can you really notice the higher bit rate when using it via Apple CarPlay?
Have both Tidal and Deezer lossless CarPlay enabled apps. Although being throttled by wireless, it clearly sounds better than other sources and both allow for playing saved downloaded content, saving bandwidth charges. Both apps can be quirky and times, but preferable to spotify, etc. especially with the B&W.
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      10-20-2021, 07:21 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ksoze View Post
Have both Tidal and Deezer lossless CarPlay enabled apps. Although being throttled by wireless, it clearly sounds better than other sources and both allow for playing saved downloaded content, saving bandwidth charges. Both apps can be quirky and times, but preferable to spotify, etc. especially with the B&W.
Thanks for the input. I am several days in with Tidal now and am loving it. Definitely some quirks and bugs, but I like the web interface for adding music. In terms of sound quality, I still think Apple Music sounds better, but I find Apple Music cumbersome and non-creative.

Tidal works great with my Apple Watch on cellular (no phone nearby). Pandora and Spotify sucked on my watch.
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Last edited by Joe-BMW33; 10-20-2021 at 07:37 AM..
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      10-20-2021, 07:34 AM   #62
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yep, also noticed this and the map updates becoming slower. It all came down to the wireless charging (almost) overheating the phone.
Took the phone off of the charger, was unexpected hot, held it in front of the air outlets to cool it down, and the whole CarPlay interface started to become smooth again.
Ran into it a couple of times over the last couple of months (wireless charging is just too convenient ;-) ).
This never happened when charging wired (phone also doesn't get hot) while on hours long trips.
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      10-27-2021, 12:27 PM   #63
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I hear ios15 has a lot of issues along with iPhone 13. I'm going to stick with the iPhone 11 for a bit longer lol
I have a 13 Pro Max (and a 12 Pro Max before it). I'm in the Apple Developer program and have been running 15 since beta 1, and I have yet to have any issues with either phone. What you're hearing is a vocal minority (and it's a small minority, at that).

If you want a 13, don't fear getting one because of what you're hearing.

As an aside, they are not going to lemon law a car for CarPlay issues. Sorry.
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      10-27-2021, 01:37 PM   #64
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yep, also noticed this and the map updates becoming slower. It all came down to the wireless charging (almost) overheating the phone.
Took the phone off of the charger, was unexpected hot, held it in front of the air outlets to cool it down, and the whole CarPlay interface started to become smooth again.
Ran into it a couple of times over the last couple of months (wireless charging is just too convenient ;-) ).
This never happened when charging wired (phone also doesn't get hot) while on hours long trips.
This is sort of the nature of the beast.

Wireless charging generates heat and GPS + WiFi + Cellular also generates heat. So you’re left without any real recourse other than to plug in on longer trips.

The only way BMW could improve this would be to change the wireless charging tray to a setup that had active cooling embedded into it so it could cool the charging bay from below to move that heat away from the device.

For longer road trips I just plug into the center console and dump the phone in there.
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      10-28-2021, 05:53 AM   #65
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I have a 13 Pro Max (and a 12 Pro Max before it). I'm in the Apple Developer program and have been running 15 since beta 1, and I have yet to have any issues with either phone. What you're hearing is a vocal minority (and it's a small minority, at that).

If you want a 13, don't fear getting one because of what you're hearing.

As an aside, they are not going to lemon law a car for CarPlay issues. Sorry.
Same. 15.2 and 8.2 beta's are working perfectly on my 13 Pro Max and Apple Watch, respectively. FYI, the OP determined it was his phone and not the car. So much for the BMW geniuses, this was the first thing I recommended, try a different phone, Wha La..
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