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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Tuning Modifications b48 (530i) tunes?

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      06-28-2018, 07:52 AM   #23
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Any chance for a dyno?
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      05-09-2023, 04:35 PM   #24
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When I got my hands on a secondhand 530e, I loved it...except for one thing. When the HV battery died I was stuck driving a 184HP 4-cylinder. I've heard so much about Bootmod3 that I decided to bite the bullet and try it for my car.

My 2018 530e is currently on a Bootmod3 Stage 1 Map. I coded the extra HP values to come in on the sport display with BimmerCode, but even though those dials go to about 320HP, it's easily maxing that out.

Im estimating it's making anywhere between 330 and 350HP.

I thought that I would want to go to stage 2 quickly afterward, but honestly, the added power and especially the torque is amazing. Above 120MPH, I would want theoretically want more umph, but 1. it's kinda illegal to be doing that speed and 2. I do most of my driving in the city.

Here's a recent run I've done with my Dragy. I know it isn't fast by real performance car standards, but honestly its more than enough for me.

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      05-16-2023, 01:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo G30 View Post

My 2018 530e is currently on a Bootmod3 Stage 1 Map. I coded the extra HP values to come in on the sport display with BimmerCode, but even though those dials go to about 320HP, it's easily maxing that out.
Attachment 3177235
Hi,

How did you code that with bimmercode?

Thanks!
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      06-22-2023, 04:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantotlearn View Post
Hi,

How did you code that with bimmercode?

Thanks!
Hey, sorry for the delayed response.

So after you connect to your car using BimmerCode successfully, you will be met with this screen

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You then Click on "Headunit", which brings you here

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Scroll down to the Bottom until you find the "Sport Displays" box seen here

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And then configure the settings in each accordingly

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I believe that its the Sport Displays Color changing from Orange to Red that somehow unlocks the additional HP numbers to be displayed.....

But that's how I got that working
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      07-02-2023, 11:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo G30 View Post
When I got my hands on a secondhand 530e, I loved it...except for one thing. When the HV battery died I was stuck driving a 184HP 4-cylinder. I've heard so much about Bootmod3 that I decided to bite the bullet and try it for my car.

My 2018 530e is currently on a Bootmod3 Stage 1 Map. I coded the extra HP values to come in on the sport display with BimmerCode, but even though those dials go to about 320HP, it's easily maxing that out.

Im estimating it's making anywhere between 330 and 350HP.

I thought that I would want to go to stage 2 quickly afterward, but honestly, the added power and especially the torque is amazing. Above 120MPH, I would want theoretically want more umph, but 1. it's kinda illegal to be doing that speed and 2. I do most of my driving in the city.

Here's a recent run I've done with my Dragy. I know it isn't fast by real performance car standards, but honestly its more than enough for me.

Attachment 3177235
You're definitely not making 320-350hp mate
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      07-19-2023, 03:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1 View Post
You're definitely not making 320-350hp mate
I know you have a lot of experience in this area, but are you sure it can't be making around 320 at least?

That estimate I provided was based on BMW's official numbers on the car (which I believe are underrated) as well as Bootmod3's official tune percent increase numbers.


From Bootmod3's website:

20i models:
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 42% HP / 46% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 46% HP / 48% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 53 % HP / 50% TQ
Stage 2 91 octane: up to 50% HP / 48% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 54% HP / 50% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 60% HP / 55% TQ

30i models:
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 14% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 16% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 20% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 91 octane: up to 16% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 18% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 22% HP / 30% TQ


What was going through my mind was that stock...the b46 (basically a 20i engine) makes 184hp...so on a stage 1 tune, the b46 alone should be making approximately 184(1.46) = 268HP (I run the car on 93 all the time).
From there, the electric motor is supposed to make 111hp and 184lb-ft of torque, and from my experience flooring it.....the car only will apply all 111hp if its in a specific gear locked in for a considerable amount of time...otherwise it will only supply around 64hp (Calculated by taking BMW's net HP amount for the car and subtracting it from the stock b46 number(248 - 184 = 64)).

So I added 268 + 64 to get 332 at the minimum (or maximum if my claims about the electric motor are false)

And then I added 268+111 to get a....quite unreasonable 379HP as a maximum.

I calculated the torque the same way, and I came up with like 214(1.48) = 316+ (310lb-ft stock net torque - 214lb-ft stock engine net torque = 96) = 412lb-ft of torque as a min net torque, and then once again that maximum torque value of 316+184 = 500...(that seems impossible though)

I originally accepted the fact that my car was making around 350HP and 420lb-ft of torque though since my car managed to hit 0-60 in 4.78 seconds, which is around the same time as a stock 540i which has more power, but carries a lot less weight (3847lbs vs 4550lbs) (I managed to do a better-timed run compared to the previous run I posted above).

I also believed around 350 might not be impossible when I saw another 530e on a stage 2 tune making 399HP and almost 450lb-ft of torque

http://www.facebook.com/mgflasher/po...9804602623732/

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And there are lots of other owners that have done either stage 1 or stage 2 tunes that are all pulling above 320HP easily. I'm pretty sure you know this...but the 530e compared to the 330e has a electric motor with a larger output, so that might be the extra 20-30HP that we are missing.

Again, you have more experience with this stuff, so please advise. (I'm only 19 and willing to learn)

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Last edited by Slo G30; 07-19-2023 at 04:35 AM..
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      07-19-2023, 06:05 AM   #29
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Ok there's a lot to unpack here. Firstly I want to say I thought you were talking about purely ICE output, if you're referring to ICE + Hybrid Drive output, then sure you're probably easily be making 320hp at the crank easily (though probably not 370). If it's ICE only then it's doubtful if you have no additional modifications (the stock catalytic converter and OPF if you have it are quite restrictive).

You won't be able to tell without a dyno if what you care about is the actual BHP/WHP. This is ultimately a stupid game to play as which dyno, conditions, how it accounts of drivetrain losses to back out the crank horsepower. HP/Dyno charts between individuals are never comparable, they should be viewed as tools to help you tune/setup YOUR car in YOUR specific application, not as something that's comparable between individuals thousands of miles away from one another under different conditions. Dyno charts ... even from SAME dyno manufacturer ... are not SAT scores .... it's more like comparing your grades in english class (comparing within your class with the same teacher is "ok" but comparing between schools or districts is questionable).

If what you actually care about is how fast it is in the real world, dragy or actual dragstrip numbers from the same day/place are comparable and if you want to look at it from a more engine centric perspective what really matters is the entire shape of the power curve with a focus on the part of the curve you'll use ...i.e if shifting at 7000rpm redline drops you to 5000 rpm in the next gear, and you're an absolute driving god, really only the 5000-7000rpm "matter" .... assuming the power curve didn't fall off the side of a cliff .... which CAN happen

Ultimately what you "feel" are G-forces.

None of the stuff above are surprises to you but I think it's just important to reiterate the importance of the real world info/measurements over "random math and figures provided on the internet".... Even if you get on a dyno and it shows you're putting down *calculated* 380 brake horsepower .... does it matter if the guy next to you who only puts down 300 BHP is 0.2s faster in the 1/4 mile ?

Now for the thinking/logic which you've kinda missed on (to be fair, you're in the same boat as 95% of people on the forums/internet who do this, but you have the right attitude)

Firstly, take the BM3/MHD numbers with a grain of salt. In the real world things don't work like they do in a simulation or a model. Your car can respond tremendously well to a tune and your friend's car which is otherwise identical might not. It's important to know that the figures that BM3 provides are at best an average expectation and at worst extremely cherry picked figures. Also, is the % increase quoted the % increase at a given RPM associated with peak power in run 1 or run 2 ? is it the percentage increase of peak power ? is it the maximum percentage increase of power at ANY part of the curve ?

My 520i which has the B48B20B motor (mechanically identical to the 30i) struggles to make more than 300bhp on a random all wheel dyno ... I have 98RON fuel and I experience pretty severe timing retardation on full throttle, even a full can of Torco octane booster still results in intermittent timing retardation. Should I be upset at BM3 for this ? Maybe when stock my motor wasn't putting out the 184hp claimed. Ultimately what do I care more about ? The number on a graph ... or maximizing what I can do with my platform (for performance/reliability) as it exists sitting in my garage ? If you chase after numbers on a screen, two things will happen... 1) you WILL manage to achieve that number because these things are easily manipulated and 2) you'll lose sight of having fun with the thing because you will probably end up making dumb decisions which prioritize the number on the screen as opposed to something more real like reliability, turbo lag, etc.

Secondly, you also need to understand that electric motors also have a power curve just like the ICE motor. Yes electric motors tend to have a very flat power curve (relatively speaking) but it isn't a constant output. It would be VERY "handwavy" to simply just add the max power output of the electric motor to your peak power on the ICE and say combined power = A+B. The real world just doesn't work this way. To be fair to you, you WERE conservative in your estimate by taking 60 something (~50% peak electric power) + estimated ICE BHP but there's the underlying assumption that the electric motor is actually helping when the engine is operating in it's max load, max throttle/boost, high rpm state (which isn't neccesarily a reasonable assumption for lite-hybrids)

Thirdly, just forget about "adding torques". While it's actually "ok" to do in this instance because the electric motor is placed before the gearing in the transmission (taking the place of the torque converter), in most scenarios of hybrid drive the motors are situated after gearing which makes the concept of "adding torques" completely retarded. On top of all this, torque as a "performance paramater" also means basically nothing, all you care about is the shape of the power curve, torque at the engine is multipled by gearing. Saying an engine make 300ft-lbs of torque at the engine is quite useless because what matters is WHERE you're making the torque, 300ft-lbs of torque at 1000 rpm is extremely impressive (.... because that's the equivalent of 1500hp) whereas 300ft-lbs of torque at 5000rpm is a "meh" 290hp.

Fourth, I'm nitpicking here as you're actually doing well by comparing with the 540i conceptually but you're also making a LOT of hand wavy assumptions.

*weight: no one knows the weight of literally any car, there's massive variance between individual examples and manufacturer quoted weights often times are inconsistent even with themselves, ultimately you don't know the weight of your car unless you put it on some scales, how much does my G30 520i weigh ? i've seen numbers as low as 1500 kg and some as high as 1800 kg depending on the source... I have literally zero idea.

*power/weight: you're relying on a figure of questionable accuracy (weight) to predict/extrapolate an unknown quantity (power) based on your realized acceleration figures compared to some numbers you found online presumably (absolutely inapproriate to be doing this) AND you're using the worst acceleration metric (0-60mph) as it's literally the MOST manipulated number both in terms of how it's calculated (with or without rollout) as well as it's succeptibility to conditions (prep'd surface ? launch control ? brake boosting ? etc.)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo G30 View Post
I know you have a lot of experience in this area, but are you sure it can't be making around 320 at least?

That estimate I provided was based on BMW's official numbers on the car (which I believe are underrated) as well as Bootmod3's official tune percent increase numbers.


From Bootmod3's website:

20i models:
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 42% HP / 46% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 46% HP / 48% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 53 % HP / 50% TQ
Stage 2 91 octane: up to 50% HP / 48% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 54% HP / 50% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 60% HP / 55% TQ

30i models:
Stage 1 91 octane: up to 14% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 93 octane: up to 16% HP / 26% TQ
Stage 1 E30 octane: up to 20% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 91 octane: up to 16% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 93 octane: up to 18% HP / 28% TQ
Stage 2 E30 octane: up to 22% HP / 30% TQ


What was going through my mind was that stock...the b46 (basically a 20i engine) makes 184hp...so on a stage 1 tune, the b46 alone should be making approximately 184(1.46) = 268HP (I run the car on 93 all the time).
From there, the electric motor is supposed to make 111hp and 184lb-ft of torque, and from my experience flooring it.....the car only will apply all 111hp if its in a specific gear locked in for a considerable amount of time...otherwise it will only supply around 64hp (Calculated by taking BMW's net HP amount for the car and subtracting it from the stock b46 number(248 - 184 = 64)).

So I added 268 + 64 to get 332 at the minimum (or maximum if my claims about the electric motor are false)

And then I added 268+111 to get a....quite unreasonable 379HP as a maximum.

I calculated the torque the same way, and I came up with like 214(1.48) = 316+ (310lb-ft stock net torque - 214lb-ft stock engine net torque = 96) = 412lb-ft of torque as a min net torque, and then once again that maximum torque value of 316+184 = 500...(that seems impossible though)

I originally accepted the fact that my car was making around 350HP and 420lb-ft of torque though since my car managed to hit 0-60 in 4.78 seconds, which is around the same time as a stock 540i which has more power, but carries a lot less weight (3847lbs vs 4550lbs) (I managed to do a better-timed run compared to the previous run I posted above).

I also believed around 350 might not be impossible when I saw another 530e on a stage 2 tune making 399HP and almost 450lb-ft of torque

http://www.facebook.com/mgflasher/po...9804602623732/

Attachment 3232272

And there are lots of other owners that have done either stage 1 or stage 2 tunes that are all pulling above 320HP easily. I'm pretty sure you know this...but the 530e compared to the 330e has a electric motor with a larger output, so that might be the extra 20-30HP that we are missing.

Again, you have more experience with this stuff, so please advise. (I'm only 19 and willing to learn)

Attachment 3232269
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      07-19-2023, 11:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1 View Post
Ok there's a lot to unpack here. Firstly I want to say I thought you were talking about purely ICE output, if you're referring to ICE + Hybrid Drive output, then sure you're probably easily be making 320hp at the crank easily (though probably not 370). If it's ICE only then it's doubtful if you have no additional modifications (the stock catalytic converter and OPF if you have it are quite restrictive).

You won't be able to tell without a dyno if what you care about is the actual BHP/WHP. This is ultimately a stupid game to play as which dyno, conditions, how it accounts of drivetrain losses to back out the crank horsepower. HP/Dyno charts between individuals are never comparable, they should be viewed as tools to help you tune/setup YOUR car in YOUR specific application, not as something that's comparable between individuals thousands of miles away from one another under different conditions. Dyno charts ... even from SAME dyno manufacturer ... are not SAT scores .... it's more like comparing your grades in english class (comparing within your class with the same teacher is "ok" but comparing between schools or districts is questionable).

If what you actually care about is how fast it is in the real world, dragy or actual dragstrip numbers from the same day/place are comparable and if you want to look at it from a more engine centric perspective what really matters is the entire shape of the power curve with a focus on the part of the curve you'll use ...i.e if shifting at 7000rpm redline drops you to 5000 rpm in the next gear, and you're an absolute driving god, really only the 5000-7000rpm "matter" .... assuming the power curve didn't fall off the side of a cliff .... which CAN happen

Ultimately what you "feel" are G-forces.

None of the stuff above are surprises to you but I think it's just important to reiterate the importance of the real world info/measurements over "random math and figures provided on the internet".... Even if you get on a dyno and it shows you're putting down *calculated* 380 brake horsepower .... does it matter if the guy next to you who only puts down 300 BHP is 0.2s faster in the 1/4 mile ?

Now for the thinking/logic which you've kinda missed on (to be fair, you're in the same boat as 95% of people on the forums/internet who do this, but you have the right attitude)

Firstly, take the BM3/MHD numbers with a grain of salt. In the real world things don't work like they do in a simulation or a model. Your car can respond tremendously well to a tune and your friend's car which is otherwise identical might not. It's important to know that the figures that BM3 provides are at best an average expectation and at worst extremely cherry picked figures. Also, is the % increase quoted the % increase at a given RPM associated with peak power in run 1 or run 2 ? is it the percentage increase of peak power ? is it the maximum percentage increase of power at ANY part of the curve ?

My 520i which has the B48B20B motor (mechanically identical to the 30i) struggles to make more than 300bhp on a random all wheel dyno ... I have 98RON fuel and I experience pretty severe timing retardation on full throttle, even a full can of Torco octane booster still results in intermittent timing retardation. Should I be upset at BM3 for this ? Maybe when stock my motor wasn't putting out the 184hp claimed. Ultimately what do I care more about ? The number on a graph ... or maximizing what I can do with my platform (for performance/reliability) as it exists sitting in my garage ? If you chase after numbers on a screen, two things will happen... 1) you WILL manage to achieve that number because these things are easily manipulated and 2) you'll lose sight of having fun with the thing because you will probably end up making dumb decisions which prioritize the number on the screen as opposed to something more real like reliability, turbo lag, etc.

Secondly, you also need to understand that electric motors also have a power curve just like the ICE motor. Yes electric motors tend to have a very flat power curve (relatively speaking) but it isn't a constant output. It would be VERY "handwavy" to simply just add the max power output of the electric motor to your peak power on the ICE and say combined power = A+B. The real world just doesn't work this way. To be fair to you, you WERE conservative in your estimate by taking 60 something (~50% peak electric power) + estimated ICE BHP but there's the underlying assumption that the electric motor is actually helping when the engine is operating in it's max load, max throttle/boost, high rpm state (which isn't neccesarily a reasonable assumption for lite-hybrids)

Thirdly, just forget about "adding torques". While it's actually "ok" to do in this instance because the electric motor is placed before the gearing in the transmission (taking the place of the torque converter), in most scenarios of hybrid drive the motors are situated after gearing which makes the concept of "adding torques" completely retarded. On top of all this, torque as a "performance paramater" also means basically nothing, all you care about is the shape of the power curve, torque at the engine is multipled by gearing. Saying an engine make 300ft-lbs of torque at the engine is quite useless because what matters is WHERE you're making the torque, 300ft-lbs of torque at 1000 rpm is extremely impressive (.... because that's the equivalent of 1500hp) whereas 300ft-lbs of torque at 5000rpm is a "meh" 290hp.

Fourth, I'm nitpicking here as you're actually doing well by comparing with the 540i conceptually but you're also making a LOT of hand wavy assumptions.

*weight: no one knows the weight of literally any car, there's massive variance between individual examples and manufacturer quoted weights often times are inconsistent even with themselves, ultimately you don't know the weight of your car unless you put it on some scales, how much does my G30 520i weigh ? i've seen numbers as low as 1500 kg and some as high as 1800 kg depending on the source... I have literally zero idea.

*power/weight: you're relying on a figure of questionable accuracy (weight) to predict/extrapolate an unknown quantity (power) based on your realized acceleration figures compared to some numbers you found online presumably (absolutely inapproriate to be doing this) AND you're using the worst acceleration metric (0-60mph) as it's literally the MOST manipulated number both in terms of how it's calculated (with or without rollout) as well as it's succeptibility to conditions (prep'd surface ? launch control ? brake boosting ? etc.)
Whoa......ok first off thank you so much for unpacking all of that for me. I truly appreciate you helping me understand how all of this works. I'm going to keep this somewhere safe for future reference

I legitimately did not know that dynos, tuning software power gain numbers, 0-60 times, weight-based metrics, and general information on the internet could be unreliable. I also had no idea you shouldn't really be adding torques. . Thanks for clearing that up as well.


I should mention that I do have upgraded coil packs from Dinan (idk what they do but they look cooler), a FTP charge and intake pipe, and a "hot" air intake from Burger Motorsports. I don't have a upgraded downpipe yet (though working towards getting an AA one possibly within the next year).

And yes, I do want to chase the numbers, but I also don't want to chase the numbers. I'm just looking for my car to have plenty of power in normal driving, but I can also hoon around if need be and actually use 100% of its power without too much to worry about, such as losing complete control. My car pulls hard enough as is, and I don't really need it making more than what it is making currently...although an extra 20-30hp wouldnt hurt.. I'm happy with it

I feel like I'm doing you a disservice by not going over every single point you covered in your reply to mine, but I can assure you I read over everything, and I now have a much better understanding of what to do and what not to do when it comes to the large and undeniably vast world of tuning.

I definitely know who to come to the next time I have questions

Thanks agaaaain
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      07-19-2023, 07:42 PM   #31
Knifeedge2k1
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Dynos aren't like atomic clocks. They're not really standardised and Each manufacturer is different and each day (condition) is different which means even an idealised known power output would read different (not to mention the engine itself would respond differently to air temperature, humidity, etc.

Comparing singular point numbers between different Dynos is never appropriate (and even if it was, comparing one number on the entire power curve gives very little information).what Dynos should be used for is comparing with yourself after you've made changes and to look at the entire curve and... This is the one which no one does because it is expensive... To do things which have absolutely nothing to do with peak power like measuring turbo lag (Dynos can do things like hold a constant rpm, so you can be at a particular rpm at low throttle, mash it and measure how quickly the torque/power output reaches it's maximum figure, on an NA car this is effectively how quickly the throttle plate goes from closed to open, on a turbo car it is dependent on how fast the turbo will spool up) which requires multiple runs

Enter wonder how manufacturers of certain performance parts all can claim how a random intake or filter or whatever makes +5% horsepower and it's all "dyno tested"?

Well cars are fickle things, the exact same car on the same day 3 minutes apart might have a couple percentage points in variance. Throw in some fiddling with external cooling fans, running the dyno /car with the garage doors open/closed, etc and you can easily make a sticker look like it makes 5hp.



+++


0-60 is a shit metric even without the rollout and track prep, tire grip considerations. Firstly, how much do you want to beat on your own car? That launch (if you're doing launch control/brake boosting) is easily the most stress that engine/driveline is ever going to experience. Car magazines don't give a shit about the car and manufacturers will let them do anything (run on prepped tracks, unlimited launch control, stickiest tires, destroy the clutchesetc) because a 0.1s better time means more cars sold.

So comparing with car magazines / YouTubers / dragy 0-60 numbers from idiots in the Internet who don't care about their cars is just silly.

That doesn't mean comparing acceleration figures aren't useful. But you should aim to use a figure which is least affected by those things mentioned above. That's why the 100-200kph metric is coming more into popularity, it's less stressful, by 100kph most cars are not grip limited, and a bunch of other reasons.

+++

Unfortunately none of your current mods make any power.

Intake mods on a b48/46 CAN'T make power because the intake isn't the bottle neck. We share filter boxes and to a large extent the post turbo plumbing with the b58 engine so unless you're actually making north of 400hp ICE power alone, the intake isn't really restricting much of anything.

The charge pipe is outright unnecessary unless you're planning on using it for methanol injection

Coil packs are responsible for turning your low voltage from battery/alternator into the high voltage necessary for the spark plug to make a spark. Generally the more boost/compression ratio you run, the higher voltage you'd want. A misfire occurs when the spark doesn't occur "as planned". A "better" coil can't make any more power than a crappier coil unless you're having ignition related issues which the "better" coil is resolving.

+++


I have a b48 WhatsApp group which is a mix of guys with jb4/bm3/mhd so you can join if you want, just send me a pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo G30 View Post
Whoa......ok first off thank you so much for unpacking all of that for me. I truly appreciate you helping me understand how all of this works. I'm going to keep this somewhere safe for future reference

I legitimately did not know that dynos, tuning software power gain numbers, 0-60 times, weight-based metrics, and general information on the internet could be unreliable. I also had no idea you shouldn't really be adding torques. . Thanks for clearing that up as well.


I should mention that I do have upgraded coil packs from Dinan (idk what they do but they look cooler), a FTP charge and intake pipe, and a "hot" air intake from Burger Motorsports. I don't have a upgraded downpipe yet (though working towards getting an AA one possibly within the next year).

And yes, I do want to chase the numbers, but I also don't want to chase the numbers. I'm just looking for my car to have plenty of power in normal driving, but I can also hoon around if need be and actually use 100% of its power without too much to worry about, such as losing complete control. My car pulls hard enough as is, and I don't really need it making more than what it is making currently...although an extra 20-30hp wouldnt hurt.. I'm happy with it

I feel like I'm doing you a disservice by not going over every single point you covered in your reply to mine, but I can assure you I read over everything, and I now have a much better understanding of what to do and what not to do when it comes to the large and undeniably vast world of tuning.

I definitely know who to come to the next time I have questions

Thanks agaaaain
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      07-19-2023, 11:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1 View Post
Dynos aren't like atomic clocks. They're not really standardised and Each manufacturer is different and each day (condition) is different which means even an idealised known power output would read different (not to mention the engine itself would respond differently to air temperature, humidity, etc.

Comparing singular point numbers between different Dynos is never appropriate (and even if it was, comparing one number on the entire power curve gives very little information).what Dynos should be used for is comparing with yourself after you've made changes and to look at the entire curve and... This is the one which no one does because it is expensive... To do things which have absolutely nothing to do with peak power like measuring turbo lag (Dynos can do things like hold a constant rpm, so you can be at a particular rpm at low throttle, mash it and measure how quickly the torque/power output reaches it's maximum figure, on an NA car this is effectively how quickly the throttle plate goes from closed to open, on a turbo car it is dependent on how fast the turbo will spool up) which requires multiple runs

Enter wonder how manufacturers of certain performance parts all can claim how a random intake or filter or whatever makes +5% horsepower and it's all "dyno tested"?

Well cars are fickle things, the exact same car on the same day 3 minutes apart might have a couple percentage points in variance. Throw in some fiddling with external cooling fans, running the dyno /car with the garage doors open/closed, etc and you can easily make a sticker look like it makes 5hp.



+++


0-60 is a shit metric even without the rollout and track prep, tire grip considerations. Firstly, how much do you want to beat on your own car? That launch (if you're doing launch control/brake boosting) is easily the most stress that engine/driveline is ever going to experience. Car magazines don't give a shit about the car and manufacturers will let them do anything (run on prepped tracks, unlimited launch control, stickiest tires, destroy the clutchesetc) because a 0.1s better time means more cars sold.

So comparing with car magazines / YouTubers / dragy 0-60 numbers from idiots in the Internet who don't care about their cars is just silly.

That doesn't mean comparing acceleration figures aren't useful. But you should aim to use a figure which is least affected by those things mentioned above. That's why the 100-200kph metric is coming more into popularity, it's less stressful, by 100kph most cars are not grip limited, and a bunch of other reasons.

+++

Unfortunately none of your current mods make any power.

Intake mods on a b48/46 CAN'T make power because the intake isn't the bottle neck. We share filter boxes and to a large extent the post turbo plumbing with the b58 engine so unless you're actually making north of 400hp ICE power alone, the intake isn't really restricting much of anything.

The charge pipe is outright unnecessary unless you're planning on using it for methanol injection

Coil packs are responsible for turning your low voltage from battery/alternator into the high voltage necessary for the spark plug to make a spark. Generally the more boost/compression ratio you run, the higher voltage you'd want. A misfire occurs when the spark doesn't occur "as planned". A "better" coil can't make any more power than a crappier coil unless you're having ignition related issues which the "better" coil is resolving.

+++


I have a b48 WhatsApp group which is a mix of guys with jb4/bm3/mhd so you can join if you want, just send me a pm

Thanks for that clarification on dynos and the unrealiableness of 0-60s...that definitely cleared things up on my end.


And ok...so my intake isn't doing anything and neither is my charge pipe...cool......I'll admit it does sound better because I can hear the air whooshing through the intake into the turbo and I can hear the turbo flutter when I let off the gas (although correct me if I'm wrong...turbo flutter will lead to premature wear and tear on the turbo and if you were making a lot of PSI from a bigger turbo, you would want a BOV to help relieve that pressure.(not sure how necessary a BOV is on my current setup)).

I'm going to admit....I only bought the charge pipe and intake pipe because FTP Motorsports claimed an increase of 15HP.........and I was like...Hmm ok, it might do something. My butt dyno felt something but that might've just me being excited over how much extra noise my car was making (My dad said it sounds like a vacuum cleaner, but I love how it sounds)

I'll definitely send you a PM as soon as I get a chance to...thanks for the invite
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      07-19-2023, 11:52 PM   #33
Knifeedge2k1
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Gone are the days of where am intake mod will yield any significant power

One needs to understand that intake restrictions impact economy and power equally (unlike exhaust restrictions which are often are a tradeoff between power and emissions). That is, there are legitimate tradeoffs in the exhaust side where more restriction is accepted by manufacturers because it delivered some positive aspect somewhere else. This is simply untrue on the intake side, there is nothing to be gained from restriction on the intake aside from cost but we're at the stage in history where factory intakes are MORE not less complex than aftermarket intakes.

No manufacturer in this day and age is leaving power/fuel economy on the table by designing a suboptimal intake.

Manufacturers will tell you all type of shit to part you from your money

Charge pipes were a "thing" that you needed to do on the Nxx series engines because the stock part was built poorly and cracked. It was never because the aftermarket part "made more power"

The B series engines don't have blow off valves or diverter valves.

The B series engines handle the over boost on sudden throttle closure by opening the electronic wastegate (letting the turbine/compressor assembly freewheel). If you believe BMW, the combination of the fact shifts are a lot faster with modern zf8spd transmissions and the fact that everything is electronically controlled (throttle, valvetronic, spark & fuel injection) means the use of a blowoff/diverter valve unnecessary. Now personally I think that's kind of a horseshit as none of those points changes the physical fact that there is a slog of compressed air that has momentum that needs to go "somewhere". This is evidenced by how the highest specific output versions of the b48/b46 HAVE diverter valves (on the M235i and I think the mini)

Problem is you can't really just install one, the ecu is expecting a certain amount of air in the intake and just venting that to atmosphere or even higher up in the intake track might lead to weird issues. Without a custom tune, just adding a bypass/diverter might give you more issues than if you had just left it alone.

Butt dynos aren't worth shit, I don't know how sensitive your ass is but unless you're telling me you can tell the difference between having the extra weight of a 5ft2 girl in the car or not, or feel the difference between a 5. 0s and 5.2s 0-60.... you can't feel 15hp. This is literally within the margin of error of runs being done back to back.

Unfortunately running stg 1 or 2 ots tunes with a stock turbo simply means you're going to have to accept the higher wear on your turbo. This isn't really a big deal because you literally can buy stock turbos for cheap given how prevalent the platform is (or upgrade and get a proper custom tune when the stock turbo kicks the bucket)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo G30 View Post
Thanks for that clarification on dynos and the unrealiableness of 0-60s...that definitely cleared things up on my end.


And ok...so my intake isn't doing anything and neither is my charge pipe...cool......I'll admit it does sound better because I can hear the air whooshing through the intake into the turbo and I can hear the turbo flutter when I let off the gas (although correct me if I'm wrong...turbo flutter will lead to premature wear and tear on the turbo and if you were making a lot of PSI from a bigger turbo, you would want a BOV to help relieve that pressure.(not sure how necessary a BOV is on my current setup)).

I'm going to admit....I only bought the charge pipe and intake pipe because FTP Motorsports claimed an increase of 15HP.........and I was like...Hmm ok, it might do something. My butt dyno felt something but that might've just me being excited over how much extra noise my car was making (My dad said it sounds like a vacuum cleaner, but I love how it sounds)

I'll definitely send you a PM as soon as I get a chance to...thanks for the invite
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