[Joe-BMW33]

https://www.motor1.com/news/597376/b...FO8RD7Fcc1xJpU

[Mach550]

wtf, I guess this is my forever car now...think they learned to f@#$ off with this when people complained about $200 or whatever it was for carplay.

[H_T]

I refuse to purchase any subscription based service when the previous solution worked fine.

For example, when Adobe Standard moved to the service model and didn't have options for Perpetual (for us at the time), I switched all new computers to Foxit Editor. Works better for half the price without all the crazy GUI changes Adobe had.

The Foxit Reader is free if you don't need the extra features, and I switched our users to that too.

[Joe-BMW33]

Conceptually, this really sucks. I wonder how far they will go? Obviously this is about technology. Will HUD be a subscription? Driver Assistance+, Rear Sunshade? Ambient Lighting? Gesture Control? Wireless Charging? Soft Close Doors. Etc.

There is something intriguing though about them building all cars with every piece of functionality embedded in it and giving the owner the ability to turn it on or off, so minimizing option envy.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Conceptually, this really sucks. I wonder how far they will go? Obviously this is about technology. Will HUD be a subscription? Driver Assistance+, Rear Sunshade? Ambient Lighting? Gesture Control? Wireless Charging? Soft Close Doors. Etc.

There is something intriguing though about them building all cars with every piece of functionality embedded in it and giving the owner the ability to turn it on or off, so minimizing option envy.

It just shows the reality of options a bit more candidly than it did before.

The cost to BMW for building and adding the options is MUCH lower than the cost the BMW sells them for. Very close to $0.

Instead they use option complexity as a way to allow price discrimination to maximize profits. We all knew this already. But it is a bit more disheartening when you’re going to be faced with it more nakedly.

You’ll skip the “subscription” but have buttons in your car that you hit that say “pay up” to make you feel really cheap in a luxury car. I’m surprised they’re even trying it since the CarPlay subscription made them a bit of a laughing stock in the automotive space.

And that’s not even counting the technical issues of the car being unable to sync with a server and get proof it the features are paid for and etc.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

It just shows the reality of options a bit more candidly than it did before.

The cost to BMW for building and adding the options is MUCH lower than the cost the BMW sells them for. Very close to $0.

Instead they use option complexity as a way to allow price discrimination to maximize profits. We all knew this already. But it is a bit more disheartening when you’re going to be faced with it more nakedly.

You’ll skip the “subscription” but have buttons in your car that you hit that say “pay up” to make you feel really cheap in a luxury car. I’m surprised they’re even trying it since the CarPlay subscription made them a bit of a laughing stock in the automotive space.

And that’s not even counting the technical issues of the car being unable to sync with a server and get proof it the features are paid for and etc.

I was viewing it differently. This streamlines their production process and probably improves consistency throughout. Instead of building each car with specific add ons, there's potential for them all to be built the same, or close. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like DHP.

Also, makes for a more efficient buying process, both new and used. Instead of waiting around for the options you want or searching a 200+ mile radius, you're more likely to find the car you want closer to you and faster.

I can see the negatives to this, but there are some positives. Especially for those that lease or buy new every couple years. The subscription for a couple years could be more cost efficient than buying the option up front.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I was viewing it differently. This streamlines their production process and probably improves consistency throughout. Instead of building each car with specific add ons, there's potential for them all to be built the same, or close. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like DHP.

Also, makes for a more efficient buying process, both new and used. Instead of waiting around for the options you want or searching a 200+ mile radius, you're more likely to find the car you want closer to you and faster.

I can see the negatives to this, but there are some positives. Especially for those that lease or buy new every couple years. The subscription for a couple years could be more cost efficient than buying the option up front.

Well said, this was kind of what I was trying to say in the last line I wrote.

I do agree with you LogicalApex, having all those buttons there that do nothing unless you pay, is going to make me pay. I view this different than Apple CarPlay where BMW thought they were different because it was the first wireless CarPlay solution. If the whole car is switched off you either boycott BMW or pay up.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Well said, this was kind of what I was trying to say in the last line I wrote.

I do agree with you LogicalApex, having all those buttons there that do nothing unless you pay, is going to make me pay. I view this different than Apple CarPlay where BMW thought they were different because it was the first wireless CarPlay solution. If the whole car is switched off you either boycott BMW or pay up.

They definitely know that, too. Honestly, it's not bad sales strategy. With all the computer systems running all these cars and over the air updates now possible, this was really only a matter of time.

[Sam_M550i]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Well said, this was kind of what I was trying to say in the last line I wrote.

I do agree with you LogicalApex, having all those button there that do nothing unless you pay, is going to make me pay. I view this different than Apple CarPlay where BMW thought they were different because it was the first wireless CarPlay solution. If the whole car is switched off you either boycott BMW or pay up.

Someone will come along, hack the software and be able to enable all the options. That stuff is typically all bits that just need to be set to 1 and bam. That is how I used to code automation systems for manufacturers 15 years ago so se concept. The software is the same with certain features turned off unless you pay. Time to work on an app...

[BMW012]

For the example of the heated seats, if you pay for the option up front, you will not be charged a monthly fee.

The strategy is for keeping the vehicle attractive for the current and the next owner and so on. Let's say you live in a hot state so you order the vehicle without heated seats and you save a few bucks, but the next person who owns it wants heated seats, the car is already pre-wired and the next owner has the option buy the option right out or pay in subscription etc.

Also, allows for testing prior to purchasing the option.

All in all, pros and cons.. just like anything else in life with choices!

[SteveinArizona]

Not yet in the USA:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07...n-for-us-cars/

But BMW has been putting its toes in this ocean for some time so I expect that it will eventually happen.

[2022M550i]

I'm tired of all these companies with their monthly subscription chronic revenue stream bullshit. I guess I'm old and cantankerous.

Do you not have a heated seat when they no longer offer the technology that connects your car to BMW's servers to validate? We see this issue with cars that connected via 3G network.

To what LogicalApex stated - "And that’s not even counting the technical issues of the car being unable to sync with a server and get proof it the features are paid for and etc." Spot on.

I think this is a clear indication that there's a pie in the sky, I can make a living being an influencer on youtube, rainbows and unicorns generation now entering senior management.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by 2022M550i

I'm tired of all these companies with their monthly subscription chronic revenue stream bullshit. I guess I'm old and cantankerous.

Do you not have a heated seat when they no longer offer the technology that connects your car to BMW's servers to validate? We see this issue with cars that connected via 3G network.

To what LogicalApex stated - "And that’s not even counting the technical issues of the car being unable to sync with a server and get proof it the features are paid for and etc." Spot on.

I think this is a clear indication that there's a pie in the sky, I can make a living being an influencer on youtube, rainbows and unicorns generation now entering senior management.

I think you're overthinking it a bit, no offense. You can still pay for option up front, in this scenario. Also, to your hypothetical with the car eventually not having further updates/support, the hardware is still there. The seat heating element is built in. In such a case, there would still be a way to enable the feature.

[2022M550i]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I think you're overthinking it a bit, no offense. You can still pay for option up front, in this scenario. Also, to your hypothetical with the car eventually not having further updates/support, the hardware is still there. The seat heating element is built in. In such a case, there would still be a way to enable the feature.

Its an asinine concept and a long term disadvantage for the consumer, my opinion. This process is clearly being set up for BMW's benefit. For now they say you can pay for it up front…that can change in a heartbeat once that infrastructure is set up and it probably will.

Theres a reason why all these tech companies push for a monthly subscription to use their software, its a constant revenue stream.

Bmw is going to make every car fully loaded now? This is another gimmick to sucker people that cant afford all the bells and whistles up front into a monthly payment. Revenue generator.

From a technology standpoint, it will still require a handshake with the BMW servers whether you pay up front or not.

Im just tired of the monthly payment BS. if you cant afford it, don't buy it.

[G30 B58]

So, remember all the options we couldn't get because of the recent supply chain issues? Now imagine trying to build EVERY car with EVERY option.

What could possibly go wrong?

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by NGT2

I was viewing it differently. This streamlines their production process and probably improves consistency throughout. Instead of building each car with specific add ons, there's potential for them all to be built the same, or close. Obviously this doesn't apply to things like DHP.

Also, makes for a more efficient buying process, both new and used. Instead of waiting around for the options you want or searching a 200+ mile radius, you're more likely to find the car you want closer to you and faster.

I can see the negatives to this, but there are some positives. Especially for those that lease or buy new every couple years. The subscription for a couple years could be more cost efficient than buying the option up front.

I see lots of negatives and not really many positives for the consumer and the brand honestly.

For those of us who order cars we’ll lose that option or have it severely reduced to enable this model. It takes a way a big part of the “special” factor of the brand. Getting a card just as you invested time picking out. Not a large portion of the customer base, but I’d wager a more loyal segment.

You then have the anger of customers when these things hit a wall. Like when BMW customers lost access to CarPlay because the server went down…

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...re-152673.html

The pain once you end up out of warranty could be brutal too. As BMW will charge for any repairs when the system fails to work. In a current car you could ignore a failure of the vehicle cell connection if you prefer since you can just use CarPlay or whatever to do RTTI. This path would likely require you to get that fixed at dealership rates (as I’m sure the system will require BMW server involvement like most things in iDrive 7+ cars).

If BMW is going to have cost savings from a simplified manufacturing process then they should realize those benefits and pass them on into the product. Not try and shake customers down into perpetuity. It isn’t a good look.

Originally Posted by NGT2

I think you're overthinking it a bit, no offense. You can still pay for option up front, in this scenario. Also, to your hypothetical with the car eventually not having further updates/support, the hardware is still there. The seat heating element is built in. In such a case, there would still be a way to enable the feature.

BMW will offer a way to enable the feature when they turn the servers off?

BMW lied to us iDrive 7 “lite” owners by marketing RSU support as an iDrive 7 feature. 6+ months after selling “lite” cars they told us to kick rocks. If we want updates we are told to go to the dealer and pay $300 each time.

BMW won’t unlock anything once they turn the servers off. They’ll tell the owners they’ll give them a few hundred dollars off a new BMW

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LogicalApex

I see lots of negatives and not really many positives for the consumer and the brand honestly.

For those of us who order cars we’ll lose that option or have it severely reduced to enable this model. It takes a way a big part of the “special” factor of the brand. Getting a card just as you invested time picking out. Not a large portion of the customer base, but I’d wager a more loyal segment.

You then have the anger of customers when these things hit a wall. Like when BMW customers lost access to CarPlay because the server went down…

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...re-152673.html

The pain once you end up out of warranty could be brutal too. As BMW will charge for any repairs when the system fails to work. In a current car you could ignore a failure of the vehicle cell connection if you prefer since you can just use CarPlay or whatever to do RTTI. This path would likely require you to get that fixed at dealership rates (as I’m sure the system will require BMW server involvement like most things in iDrive 7+ cars).

If BMW is going to have cost savings from a simplified manufacturing process then they should realize those benefits and pass them on into the product. Not try and shake customers down into perpetuity. It isn’t a good look.

BMW will offer a way to enable the feature when they turn the servers off?

BMW lied to us iDrive 7 “lite” owners by marketing RSU support as an iDrive 7 feature. 6+ months after selling “lite” cars they told us to kick rocks. If we want updates we are told to go to the dealer and pay $300 each time.

BMW won’t unlock anything once they turn the servers off. They’ll tell the owners they’ll give them a few hundred dollars off a new BMW

I get your mad. That's cool. I'm mad about the sprint to all electric.

I'm sure it will work out fine. Also, comparing BMW to software companies isn't exactly the same. Without subscriptions, some of these tech companies would have no revenue model. Their alternative would be to just design crap software that is obsolete in a year, so you have to buy it again. What's the difference? BMW has hard assets to produce and sell. You'll always need to buy another car, or just want to. Yes, it creates streams of revenue. But I promise it won't be the disaster you're imagining.

[Dephead2004]

Best to have the engine on a monthly subscription. Then when a pandemic strikes we don't need it, save £s. When the server goes down, it stops on the motorway. When it's hacked I get an M5 for free.

[ezaircon4jc]

So... Does the subscription go with the car or the current owner? That's next; charge subsequent owners the subscriptions as "new" owners.

[Joe-BMW33]

I'm not really intimate with the Tesla model, but isn't paid for functionality turned on through software part of their plan? I have a few friends who purchased an increase in horsepower (or whatever you call it on EVs) or the self driving thing. Granted it's not a subscription, but a one time fee. I'd have to imagine Tesla is pretty tied to server uptime as well as many other new cars.

[2022M550i]

I do think this will cheapen the brand....everyone will have the same car. Nothing unique here...Buying another BMW will be a hard no if this is the way they are going.

This obviously is a move to increase revenue for BMW on multiple fronts. From a production standpoint, it's simple. Every car gets built the same way. That's huge cost containment taking variability out of the production equation. The options aren't worth shit anyways, so why not fully load all of them taking the gamble people will eventually opt in multiple options they normally wouldn't initially buy.

I can see this getting ugly...your standard audio system is 100w, but for $15 bucks a month you can unlock another 500w, for $19.95 a month you can unlock the full potential of 1200w. Who's not going to spring for the 1200w if you're forced into that situation?

From a technology standpoint, everything eventually gets sunsetted. That's the nature of the industry. 3G is gone by the end of the year...everything that connects via 3G is shit out of luck. If your car is loaded with extinct options, future worth and desirability is zero...again, forcing people to buy the latest and greatest.

Eh....TV used be free. Radio used to be free. When you bought software, it used to be one payment and done. I'm just tired of the chronic payment. I like to own and not rent. No, I don't want cheese on f'n everything...leave me alone...if I wanted it, I would have asked for it up front. Everywhere you turn, someone is in your pocket. Stop the upsell!

Okay...I'm done with my morning rant...time to get busy. Try to enjoy your day guys!

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by 2022M550i

I do think this will cheapen the brand....everyone will have the same car. Nothing unique here...Buying another BMW will be a hard no if this is the way they are going.

This obviously is a move to increase revenue for BMW on multiple fronts. From a production standpoint, it's simple. Every car gets built the same way. That's huge cost containment taking variability out of the production equation. The options aren't worth shit anyways, so why not fully load all of them taking the gamble people will eventually opt in multiple options they normally wouldn't initially buy.

I can see this getting ugly...your standard audio system is 100w, but for $15 bucks a month you can unlock another 500w, for $19.95 a month you can unlock the full potential of 1200w. Who's not going to spring for the 1200w if you're forced into that situation?

From a technology standpoint, everything eventually gets sunsetted. That's the nature of the industry. 3G is gone by the end of the year...everything that connects via 3G is shit out of luck. If your car is loaded with extinct options, future worth and desirability is zero...again, forcing people to buy the latest and greatest.

Eh....TV used be free. Radio used to be free. When you bought software, it used to be one payment and done. I'm just tired of the chronic payment. I like to own and not rent. No, I don't want cheese on f'n everything...leave me alone...if I wanted it, I would have asked for it up front. Everywhere you turn, someone is in your pocket. Stop the upsell!

Okay...I'm done with my morning rant...time to get busy. Try to enjoy your day guys!

How do you really feel? I didn't quite get it.