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BMW 5-Series (G30) Forum 2017+ BMW 5 Series (G30) General Discussions Frankfurt IAA: Tri-Turbo Alpina D5S: The fastest diesel in the world

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      09-14-2017, 01:40 PM   #45
shameson
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This again leaves me with envy of the non-NA market.

I love my F31 (and the D3 wagon) but I think a green D5 wagon would be the perfect DD. Gorgeous color.
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      09-14-2017, 06:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
HP is not measured by an instrument, is man made. A car’s performance is tested by measuring its torque by using a dynamometer. The measure of an engine’s performance is torque. Horsepower is an additional number that’s attained by multiplying the torque by the RPMs.
I know what you mean, you choose HP because your HP represent the total torque that gets delivered to the wheel (raw power plus RPM). Gearing magnifies torque and makes the difference.
So,
If the design objective is performance instead of low fuel consumption, the diesel engine can perform adequately.
BMW M550d xDrive 3.0 liter turbo diesel 6-cyl engine 0-60 mph in 4.7 sec.
BMW 535i xDrive 3.0 liter turbo 6-cyl gas 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds.

See Audi winning LeMans with diesel please.

Gearing does magnify torque, and thus you will always have an advantage with a design that can have broad torque and still rev higher.

Diesel engines are turbocharged designs with relatively long stroke because they cannot really be revved very high. If you build a petrol engine with the same long stroke and turbocharging, you'll have something very similar, but it will probably be able to rev higher and thus generate more HP and the same torque.

Instead of thinking of diesel engines as torque monsters, you should think of them as horsepower or rotationally deficient. 382HP out of something that has that much peak crank torque is not something to be proud of.

Diesels are good for towing, fuel economy, and range. Not for outright performance at anything above very low RPM.
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      09-14-2017, 09:08 PM   #47
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WAGON....GREEN...TORQUE... I'm jealous of rich Europeans right about now.
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      09-14-2017, 09:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
Speed is the engine's spin rate (RPM)
Torque is how much twisting force the engine generates at its shaft for a particular speed of rotation (Torque = Force x Perpendicular distance -> Nm)
Higher torque means better acceleration. The more available torque at lower speed, the better. If you want an engine to spin faster, you have to give it more torque. HP is a product of the torque.

Since you are mentioning a passenger car (not even a sports car - no trunk, no radio, no excessive weight, etc.) I believe that this car is stunning. A passenger car has 4-5 seats, a trunk, etc.
A gas vehicle needs to stay all the time at high Revolution to achieve a certain torque, while the diesel has the torque available instantly and effortless. At around 5000 RPM, torque and HP are equal. At any RPM below 5000, the value of torque is greater than the value of HP; Above 5000 RPM, the value of HP is higher.

Gas car stays sharp and nimble as long as you are on top of the game. It requires permanent attention and peak time with proper gear choice. -> more gas, less fuel economy.
Diesel has a linear torque curve, it's power line is pretty much stable and available anytime you need it -> better fuel economy.

You get more energy from 1 liter of diesel and diesel gets a hell of a lot better mileage than gas cars.
Just add more weight and the gas car will loose the game, while diesel will run pretty much the same. If you need acceleration, the torque is the one that will give it to you.

Sorry, Power DOES NOT reflect the capability for acceleration much better.
Power is related to the top (higher) speed while the torque is related to the Acceleration. The more Torque your engine generates, the more quickly your car accelerates.

we can't ignore the advantages of a diesel. If you drive a lot, diesel should be the first choice. Is relaxed, powerful and extremely efficient engine, that will also have a better longevity than gas engines.

PS
M3 and G30 are two different animals.
Well put...I've had a couple of diesel 3's and 3 gas 3's...The diesel feels stronger when you're not trying to bend space and time...the gas does if you're at 7-10 on a 10 scale. I have no regrets for the time I spent with my N47 F31. It was a blast on the Tail of the Dragon.
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      09-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #49
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Gorgeous interior appointments
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      09-15-2017, 10:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
HP is not measured by an instrument, is man made. A car’s performance is tested by measuring its torque by using a dynamometer. The measure of an engine’s performance is torque. Horsepower is an additional number that’s attained by multiplying the torque by the RPMs.
I know what you mean, you choose HP because your HP represent the total torque that gets delivered to the wheel (raw power plus RPM). Gearing magnifies torque and makes the difference.
So,
If the design objective is performance instead of low fuel consumption, the diesel engine can perform adequately.
BMW M550d xDrive 3.0 liter turbo diesel 6-cyl engine 0-60 mph in 4.7 sec.
BMW 535i xDrive 3.0 liter turbo 6-cyl gas 0-60 mph in 5.7 seconds.

See Audi winning LeMans with diesel please.

Gearing does magnify torque, and thus you will always have an advantage with a design that can have broad torque and still rev higher.

Diesel engines are turbocharged designs with relatively long stroke because they cannot really be revved very high. If you build a petrol engine with the same long stroke and turbocharging, you'll have something very similar, but it will probably be able to rev higher and thus generate more HP and the same torque.

Instead of thinking of diesel engines as torque monsters, you should think of them as horsepower or rotationally deficient. 382HP out of something that has that much peak crank torque is not something to be proud of.

Diesels are good for towing, fuel economy, and range. Not for outright performance at anything above very low RPM.
LOL - What?!?!

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Poop shit, shit and poop. I'm mildly angry now.
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      09-17-2017, 12:07 AM   #51
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4.4 is probably their ideal conditions figure. Sport mode, good tyres, less weight and, decent road.

Where as the 435d can do 3.9 with a remap under those same conditions. So it is a reality to have 4-4.6 seconds without ideal conditions.

Conclusion. Map the 'fastest diesel' or buy the 35d and map it.

Controversial comment over.
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