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      07-01-2014, 09:50 AM   #1
Mikli
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FYI BMW M4 H&R Springs have been released

Just saw on their website. Available.

The price is so good. I'll give it a try before the JRZ is available. I'll post some photos after install next week or so.

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Suspension Stage Notes Approx. Front Lowering Approx. Rear Lowering Part Number Sug. Retail

Sport Spring incl. Adaptive M Suspension 1.2 1.3 28877-2 $389.00 Kit

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      07-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #2
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So they are the same as the 435i Super Sport Spring
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      07-01-2014, 11:42 AM   #3
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Correct- H&R lists the same part number for the 435i and the M4. Their argument is that the more softly sprung 435i sees a large increase in spring rate, and so H&R lists this as a "super sport" application for the 435i, but only a "sport" for the M4.

In my view this is far from ideal, but I do have immediate access to the H&R 435i/M4 springs if any clients are interested in purchasing some as a temporary solution.
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      07-01-2014, 11:52 AM   #4
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FYI, i have this exact model number on my F80 and the rear is too low in my opinion.
talked to KW today and they are 6-8 weeks out. so for a temp fix, id suggest the F30 sport, not super sports.

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      07-01-2014, 12:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classic6 View Post
FYI, i have this exact model number on my F80 and the rear is too low in my opinion.
talked to KW today and they are 6-8 weeks out. so for a temp fix, id suggest the F30 sport, not super sports.

This was my concern as well... of course it depends on what ride height you're looking for- some folks might like the extra low height, some folks might want the car taller.

In any case, these springs were not designed around the F80/F82 damper or OE spring rate. They are inexpensive, however, so I suspect many will install them to get by for now.
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      07-01-2014, 12:08 PM   #6
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I plan on installing them for now till better options come available but before I do I would like to see a few more M4's on the set up which should be happening rather soon
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      07-01-2014, 12:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
I plan on installing them for now till better options come available but before I do I would like to see a few more M4's on the set up which should be happening rather soon
+1

I don't want to sacrifice ride quality especially on an M for the sake of looking "slammed"
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      07-01-2014, 12:24 PM   #8
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^^exactly but at the same time my SUV look is killing me everyday I look at my car lol.
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      07-01-2014, 12:56 PM   #9
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Why lower your car? It took months for BMW to get it right with ring testing. Your just going to through off all the geometry.
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      07-01-2014, 01:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classic6
FYI, i have this exact model number on my F80 and the rear is too low in my opinion.
talked to KW today and they are 6-8 weeks out. so for a temp fix, id suggest the F30 sport, not super sports.

I would rather wait for the KW.
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      07-01-2014, 03:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accce View Post
Why lower your car? It took months for BMW to get it right with ring testing. Your just going to through off all the geometry.
They have to allow for chains to be added to the tires. If you don't need that BS, lower the car a little. What geometry? You've mentioned this before with no source of information.
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      07-01-2014, 03:14 PM   #12
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I'm not sure that the suspension will work right with this springs. It is just for better looking, not for the better performance.
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      07-01-2014, 04:29 PM   #13
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      07-01-2014, 05:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4/3rds View Post
They have to allow for chains to be added to the tires. If you don't need that BS, lower the car a little. What geometry? You've mentioned this before with no source of information.
Here is 1 article. The angle of the tire (camber is effected)

http://trackdaytuners.com/tuner-cent...ng-your-vw-gti
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      07-01-2014, 05:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accce View Post
Here is 1 article. The angle of the tire (camber is effected)

http://trackdaytuners.com/tuner-cent...ng-your-vw-gti
You do realize that additional camber is good on a camber challenged platform such as a strut front, right?
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      07-01-2014, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
You do realize that additional camber is good on a camber challenged platform such as a strut front, right?
Once you start altering ride height, all the suspension components 'rest' in a different position. From the section on caster and camber in the tyre bible, you'll see that toe, caster and camber all change dynamically as the car rolls in corners or the suspension moves up and down in relation to the road. For example, lowering a car can result in the lower suspension control arms being angled upwards, when they used to be angled downwards. This changes the angle of the hub carrier relative to the road, creating positive camber. On double-wishbone type suspension, the combination of both control arms being angled upwards increases the camber gain even more with suspension movement, so that when cornering, the car rolls much more easily, going into far more positive camber, and creating a worse-handling car than with the original suspension setup. With McPherson suspension, the upper arm is basically infinite-length and perpendicular to the strut so the angle doesn't change that much when lowered.
The problem is that these geometry changes are hard to compensate for with alignment work. Typically to get it as close as possible to factory spec when static, you need adjustable control arms, ball joints etc. To get it back to spec under dynamic conditions, now you're talking about different wheel hub carriers (with lowering spindles) or different ball joints with longer studs in the lower control arms, and/or ball joints with longer housings if mounted in the hub carrier. Lowered suspension also exaggerates (or created) bump-steer - a situation where compressing the suspension can result in the unwanted steering input. To compensate for this, you need to consider new steering arms with relocated positions for the ball joints and tie rods. Sometimes this can be compensated for by winding the tie rods in more tightly to shorten them, but not always. So yes, if you lower your car, you must consider all the factors from realignment (for McPherson systems, to full replacement components on multi-link or dual wishbone types.
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      07-01-2014, 07:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accce View Post
Once you start altering ride height, all the suspension components 'rest' in a different position. From the section on caster and camber in the tyre bible, you'll see that toe, caster and camber all change dynamically as the car rolls in corners or the suspension moves up and down in relation to the road. For example, lowering a car can result in the lower suspension control arms being angled upwards, when they used to be angled downwards. This changes the angle of the hub carrier relative to the road, creating positive camber. On double-wishbone type suspension, the combination of both control arms being angled upwards increases the camber gain even more with suspension movement, so that when cornering, the car rolls much more easily, going into far more positive camber, and creating a worse-handling car than with the original suspension setup. With McPherson suspension, the upper arm is basically infinite-length and perpendicular to the strut so the angle doesn't change that much when lowered.
The problem is that these geometry changes are hard to compensate for with alignment work. Typically to get it as close as possible to factory spec when static, you need adjustable control arms, ball joints etc. To get it back to spec under dynamic conditions, now you're talking about different wheel hub carriers (with lowering spindles) or different ball joints with longer studs in the lower control arms, and/or ball joints with longer housings if mounted in the hub carrier. Lowered suspension also exaggerates (or created) bump-steer - a situation where compressing the suspension can result in the unwanted steering input. To compensate for this, you need to consider new steering arms with relocated positions for the ball joints and tie rods. Sometimes this can be compensated for by winding the tie rods in more tightly to shorten them, but not always. So yes, if you lower your car, you must consider all the factors from realignment (for McPherson systems, to full replacement components on multi-link or dual wishbone types.
Well done. Now can you show me the "math" on how each inch of lowering will effect the performance? Based on the information you have given us the greater the change to the original geometry the poorer the handling. Will 1/2" of lowering REALLY cause enough change in the geometry to be noticeable? Keep in mind that the people lowering the car are doing it for a more desirable appearance not for any Track advantage.
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      07-01-2014, 07:33 PM   #18
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Meh, I think I will leave suspension alone for now.
I may consider swapping it out with competition spring whenever it comes out.
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      07-01-2014, 10:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accce View Post
Why lower your car? It took months for BMW to get it right with ring testing. Your just going to through off all the geometry.
Because we like our street cars to look a certain way. The "geometry" is fine for a boulevard machine. The daily commute isn't a time attack.
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      07-01-2014, 10:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classic6 View Post
FYI, i have this exact model number on my F80 and the rear is too low in my opinion.
talked to KW today and they are 6-8 weeks out. so for a temp fix, id suggest the F30 sport, not super sports.

I think it looks good. how is the ride? Any difference from stock?
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      07-01-2014, 11:38 PM   #21
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Ride it stiff but it still is adjustable with my active suspension.
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      07-02-2014, 07:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Because we like our street cars to look a certain way. The "geometry" is fine for a boulevard machine. The daily commute isn't a time attack.
EXACTLY!!! Not everyone that buys an M is tracking it or racing it all the damn time. If thats the case, then how come most people/shops that do track their cars change out the suspension??? Is KW clubsports, Ohlins, bad for the car?? I'm guessing thats "terrible" for the car also. Some people really annoy me on these forums.

Sedan_Clan, you get it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikli View Post
I think it looks good. how is the ride? Any difference from stock?
thanks. I have regular sports coming in tomorrow so that i can raise it a tad. Personally i dont like the look right now. I have the regular suspension, not active. the ride is a tad rough, but it handles just fine.
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