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      08-05-2014, 10:59 AM   #1
AMPowerJ
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Why are 'We' Obsessed with M3/M4 Ride Height?

I have been thinking about this lately ... I am trying to make a commitment to myself not to go crazy modding my new M3. I've gone deep in the wallet in the past on crazy suspension setups, etc. Some has been for track needs but if I am being honest, the vast majority of the time was to get rid of that unwanted wheel gap. Many of us love to bash BMW about how high we 'perceive' the M3/M4 to ride and often our first mod is to throw some springs on the car to lower the ride height. Why the obsession?

I started thinking about what if I bought another car ... would I feel the need to do the same thing? Do BMWs really have more wheel gap than other sports cars? Take a look at a few of these samples ...

First the stock M3 courtesy of EAS ...



Now some others ...













Based on my observations, all of these cars have about the same wheel gap if not more. Some of these cars are hundreds of thousands of dollars more than the M3. If we were lucky enough to be able to drive these would we rush out and put a set of $500 springs on them? I think not ...

So back to our (my) obsession with ride height. Do you think it is just a common thing in the BMW community to lower our cars? Is it happening with the Ferrari and Lambo crowd too and I just don't know it?

I'm hoping that I can resist the urge to modify the suspension this time and not mess with what BMW has engineered. I'm not making any promises because my eyes automatically focus on the wheel gap, but maybe I can retrain them.
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      08-05-2014, 11:11 AM   #2
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I think this group just has a strong proclivity toward modding. and I think people here too often mod their cars based on how they look in pictures vs. how they drive.
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      08-05-2014, 11:27 AM   #3
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All of the different car crowds modify their car for different personal reasons. Most of the ride heights you picture are for cars built to be driven in ANY world environment. BMW has to make a ride height that works in every country/city.

If BMW had performance 100% in mind this would not be something we would need to address at all.
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      08-05-2014, 11:30 AM   #4
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I think you're right that the M3/M4 have comparable wheel gap to sports cars. Also, no offense, but I think you're in the minority with your wheel gap obsession. I'm sure there are plenty of people that do suspension mods for that reason, but I'd guess there are many more that do not, even among just the forum population. I personally find that wheel gap is more noticeable in pictures, so my advice would be enjoy the look of your M3 in person and don't look at the pictures so much.
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      08-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #5
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IMO cars lowered tastefully do look a little better. Would I like my car a little lower, yes. Would I be willing to spend a few thousands of dollars to lower it and give up some ride comfort and risk scraping the car going over speed bumps and driveway? Probably not.

Interestingly, when I sold my E46 M3, the buyer was specifically looking for an unmodified car. Mine's suspension was never modded. When the buyer came to test drive the car, he loved how the car drove and decided to buy in after 2 minutes of test driving it. He had just recently sold an LSB E46 M3 that he just owned for a few months. He said that LSB M3 was lowered and had stiffer suspension. With less suspension travel and stiffer springs, shocks normally would have be absorbed by the suspension is now absorbed by the car's frame. Even though it was later reverted back to OEM suspension, the car's frame had already taken enough beating and no longer tracked correctly.

Something to consider if you are going to keep the car for a while.
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      08-05-2014, 11:43 AM   #6
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Alot of the "drop the car" crowd are from a particular scene where stance is more important than performance. The usual stance mantra is: The car should be level, wheels should be as far out as possible with the tires just barely clearing the fender lip, and wheel gap should be eliminated.

But for a daily driver, or even a track car that is not built for paper smooth tracks, wheel gap represents suspension travel which represents superior ability to maintain contact patch (in theory). And, conversely, a lowered suspension with no wheel gap - on a car not specifically designed like that - represents a suspension that probably has too little wheel travel to be able to keep a good contact patch in a bumpy turn.
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      08-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #7
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Wow what did that lambo owner do order the off road package?!?!! Haha J/K I'm with you 100% OP, "we" are too obsessed.
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      08-05-2014, 11:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean@PSI View Post
All of the different car crowds modify their car for different personal reasons. Most of the ride heights you picture are for cars built to be driven in ANY world environment. BMW has to make a ride height that works in every country/city.

If BMW had performance 100% in mind this would not be something we would need to address at all.
I don't disagree that BMW sets the car up for a blend of performance and usability

However, most people only add springs to lower the car which absolutely do not improve performance. In fact, they degrade it
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      08-05-2014, 11:49 AM   #9
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those other sports cars you've identified look like sports cars no matter what the wheel gap. way more aggressive styling than BMWs (excepting the I8).
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      08-05-2014, 12:05 PM   #10
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People do it for preference on looks. I tastefully lowered car (i.e. not too low because that just looks stupid) does look more pleasing to me. Having said that, I won't go out of my way to replace suspension components to get a "slightly" improved look. When the competition package comes out, the subtle drop will be perfect IMO.

Lowering can also result in potentially better performance if done correctly but the vast majority of those who do it are only interested in looks... they don't get performance benefit and can actually degrade performance for the sake of looks. However, done right with a lower center of gravity and a properly tuned suspension and you can likely get improved performance.
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Last edited by gthal; 08-05-2014 at 12:35 PM..
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      08-05-2014, 12:23 PM   #11
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My $0.02, those little German engineers are way smarter than the guy busting out suspension pieces for (insert favorite after market brand). So I'll just leave it well enough alone.
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      08-05-2014, 12:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I don't disagree that BMW sets the car up for a blend of performance and usability

However, most people only add springs to lower the car which absolutely do not improve performance. In fact, they degrade it
I am referring to any suspension mod, including coil overs as that is mostly what people install for improved performance (when available).

We will certainly see many people installing coil overs when they are available for the F8x, which will improve both performance and aesthetics.
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      08-05-2014, 12:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyMack View Post
My $0.02, those little German engineers are way smarter than the guy busting out suspension pieces for (insert favorite after market brand). So I'll just leave it well enough alone.
^^^ This.
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      08-05-2014, 12:53 PM   #14
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If im not mistaken, the Lambo, Ferrari, Mclaren, and Bugatti all have a lift button for clearing bumps/ramps in parking lots.
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      08-05-2014, 12:55 PM   #15
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As said by Sir Loin, if it is done tastefully I think it can look nice. That being said, I am not a fan of the drop.

Like the OP, I wonder why people have these obsessions. I personally cannot understand/identify with the "blacked out" crowd that exists on the forum. I don't know why people get the cars and black out the grills IMMEDIATELY, as if the car is not complete without black grills. Now this is subjective so I am totally wrong for questioning anyone, because they are just as right as the designer BMW paid 6 figures to put the chrome ones on. I just feel like it's this constant formula that most people (and maybe it's just my age group- early/mid 20's) follow and it's; take delivery, don't respect the break in rules, drive it right to Mod shop, lower it, black out the M badges, black out grills, black out windows, install obnoxiously loud and tasteless exhaust system, then drive off like a douche. Which is great, but when I asked a friend of mine this question (someone who follows this "black out formula") he said it's because him and other people he knows want to make the cars their own. But at this point, it's become so cliche that it almost does the opposite.

I don't know, I guess I just don't like when guys do the whole "macho testosterone" thing with their car. I have seen an old Sicilian man track an FXX EVO at a blistering pace, and since then everything has been humble in my eyes. As someone said on this forum way before me, "The car doesn't define you, you define the car" and I guess those words stuck with me.
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      08-05-2014, 01:05 PM   #16
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I would like higher the better since it will be my daily. I hope it's high enough to clear the parking blocks.

I personally don't care since I feel the car is not beautiful or a supercar I would wax every month.
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      08-05-2014, 01:41 PM   #17
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People do it to try to be unique. Mostly the younger crowd 20-39 yrs of age. I too felt that need when I was younger but now I want a car that works, looks good, can get over bumps and dips without much fuss and the cops won't bother me. It's a phase that most of us go through. Think of it this way, if the cars came out with black chrome grills and emblems there would be a frenzy to replace them with the chrome ones we have now. There are people that will always try to do the opposite look no matter what it is. One thing I will never understand are the stupid side or rear reflector delete with color matching plugs.
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      08-05-2014, 01:46 PM   #18
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It's not just looks (although that is one of the main things for me). Every single one of those cars have less body roll than the M3 because they are true sports cars. Personally, I think if you do the right mods, you can not only have a ride that is just as good as OEM (just a tad firmer) as well as a much better look.

Now if it was me, I'd wait until there are more options (and until other forum members have tested them) before I messed around with the suspension. It took me a while before I decided to go with my current setup (just Swift springs)
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      08-05-2014, 02:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serieD View Post
As said by Sir Loin, if it is done tastefully I think it can look nice. That being said, I am not a fan of the drop.

Like the OP, I wonder why people have these obsessions. I personally cannot understand/identify with the "blacked out" crowd that exists on the forum. I don't know why people get the cars and black out the grills IMMEDIATELY, as if the car is not complete without black grills. Now this is subjective so I am totally wrong for questioning anyone, because they are just as right as the designer BMW paid 6 figures to put the chrome ones on. I just feel like it's this constant formula that most people (and maybe it's just my age group- early/mid 20's) follow and it's; take delivery, don't respect the break in rules, drive it right to Mod shop, lower it, black out the M badges, black out grills, black out windows, install obnoxiously loud and tasteless exhaust system, then drive off like a douche. Which is great, but when I asked a friend of mine this question (someone who follows this "black out formula") he said it's because him and other people he knows want to make the cars their own. But at this point, it's become so cliche that it almost does the opposite.

I don't know, I guess I just don't like when guys do the whole "macho testosterone" thing with their car. I have seen an old Sicilian man track an FXX EVO at a blistering pace, and since then everything has been humble in my eyes. As someone said on this forum way before me, "The car doesn't define you, you define the car" and I guess those words stuck with me.
I guess it is because I am an old fart, but I agree with your assessment of the "black out formula". In fact for me, I don't get the current trend for black wheels (runs across all makes), because when I see a car with black wheels, I don't see "aggressive", I see a car that has had the "hub caps" stolen

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      08-05-2014, 02:26 PM   #20
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Interesting post. My train of thought since I began following the M3/4 has been to get the F80 as it looked better to me stock than the M4. Plus the M4 has considerably more wheel gap in the front. Then I start seeing all these beautiful F82's lowered w/ larger wheels and they look great too, haha.

Hopefully I can stand pat and maybe only install spacers. I've been wanting to put lowering perches on my 335 but have held strong. Even though it balances it out perfectly in my opinion.
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      08-05-2014, 02:57 PM   #21
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I disagree that the folks on this forum are, generally, "obsessed" with lowering. some are and will lower, but I think most are not and won't.

For me, I think it is very situational. There are times it can improve the aesthetics (my 328 with the stock 16" tires has large gap) but I have not seen anything like that kind of gap on the F8x (in photos or in person). Maybe once I have it for a spell I will think so, but I doubt it. Frankly, cars that are lowered too much look as bad as cars that need a bit, if not worse. They don't suggest a race car to me, they suggest a car owned by someone that doesn't want to race it but rather someone who is going for a 'look' at the expense of actual performance). For performance, some fender gap is actually required (to deal with dips, bumps, etc, as others have noted)

Last edited by myzmak; 08-05-2014 at 05:08 PM..
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      08-05-2014, 04:54 PM   #22
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A couple of thoughts.

First is, in reference to your other cars posted, in my eyes the gap seems proportionate front and back. I know on my M3 I have 1/2" gap in the rear and 2" in the front. To me it looks extremely disproportionate and I have to disagree with one poster and say to me it looks worse in person than it does in pics.

Second is I really have to laugh at how many people on these forums get so bent over other people modding (lowering, blacking out, etc) "their" cars. I see post after post from the stock crowd clamoring on how much better it is or how "stupid" people are for doing something different with your cars. Isn't it the Toyota commercial where it says the world would be a better place if we all drove Prius's? Maybe we could all have the same color too and unable to change it. Please shoot me in the head now. Modding our cars separates what our car looks like to everyone else. There's obvious interest, thus the reason all these sponsors are here to take our money.

Lastly, I don't understand all the so called smart guys preaching about how perfect track cars these M3/4's are stock and how the German Engineer genius's built them as such. Noooooo....they built them to go as fast and handle as well as possible while still being able to go up a driveway without destroying the whole front end and making it possible to go over a speed bump. If they engineered these cars for only performance they'd look like a DTM race car. Newsflash: things can be done to these cars to actually "improve performance." You don't have to be an engineer to realize this. It's called common sense.
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