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      08-18-2014, 08:44 AM   #1
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Intercooler/Heat Exchanger Efficiency

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After driving my M4 for about two hours, in 80degF heat on Saturday, I stopped and opened the hood to check things out. The engine was hot and underhood was hot, as well (normal operating temp, of course). I put my hand on the water/heat exchanger (photo) for the turbo intercooler(s) and it was VERY cool. I'll be curious how it feels after a lap session on-track, but I'm impressed w/the indicated efficiency so far!

-Brian S.
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      08-18-2014, 01:16 PM   #2
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After beating mine around SPA for multiple laps, I pulled in and immediately popped the hood and felt the core. It was downright cool to the touch. I think our AWIC system works better on the street with actual flow over the heat exchanger than on the dyno. I don't think IATs are as much as a problem in the real world, but I'll find out soon once I start data logging it.
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      08-19-2014, 06:47 AM   #3
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Saw this yesterday and so I popped the hood as soon as I pulled into my garage.. The intercooler was legitimately cool. Like cold to the touch. Pretty unbelievable.
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      08-23-2014, 02:20 PM   #4
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I've heard that the AC system runs through the intercooler in some fashion. Would make sense as it gets cool to the touch pretty quickly after starting the car.
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      08-26-2014, 07:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81 View Post
After beating mine around SPA for multiple laps, I pulled in and immediately popped the hood and felt the core. It was downright cool to the touch. I think our AWIC system works better on the street with actual flow over the heat exchanger than on the dyno. I don't think IATs are as much as a problem in the real world, but I'll find out soon once I start data logging it.
They are a big problem in the real world.
As you will see once you start datalogging, as soon as IAT jumps after a pull, car will not make the same power as 5 minutes earlier.
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      08-26-2014, 08:16 PM   #6
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So does it stay cooler if your running the A/C? That'd be cool, no pun intended
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      08-26-2014, 08:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
They are a big problem in the real world.
As you will see once you start datalogging, as soon as IAT jumps after a pull, car will not make the same power as 5 minutes earlier.
The S55 has an air-to-liquid intercooler rather than air-to-air as on the N55/54. It is much more resistant to heat soak due to the higher thermal mass of the system.
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      08-26-2014, 08:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Howell View Post
I've heard that the AC system runs through the intercooler in some fashion. Would make sense as it gets cool to the touch pretty quickly after starting the car.
Looking at pictures from the intercooler system, there does not seem to be any piping other than the ones needed for the closed loop coolant of the system.
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      08-26-2014, 09:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The S55 has an air-to-liquid intercooler rather than air-to-air as on the N55/54. It is much more resistant to heat soak due to the higher thermal mass of the system.
Im not debating if the stock intercooler is good or not.
I am saying that if IAT gets high, car will not performn well.
Are IAT going to get high with the stock intercooler? i dont know we will have to wait for datalogs and find out.
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      08-26-2014, 10:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Im not debating if the stock intercooler is good or not.
I am saying that if IAT gets high, car will not performn well.
Are IAT going to get high with the stock intercooler? i dont know we will have to wait for datalogs and find out.
Only data logs performed on an actual circuit or track will be useful in this scenario. Yes, you can set up multiple fans in front of the dyno, but you will likely not achieve the same volumetric flow of air as if the car were moving 60mph.

If anything, I think it would be great to log 1/4 mile pulls and see how each successive run affects the IAT and temperature of the intercooler.

I'll confirm what @A418t81 has said. After 6 to 8 consecutive laps at Spa, my intercooler did not experience heat soak. The unit was cool to the touch. <-- Not scientific, but I imagine data logs will likely have similar results.
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      08-27-2014, 12:32 PM   #11
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I ran my car in 98 degrees on Sunday, full 20 minute session.

With 91 octane, it sucked. It was getting heat soaked.

I dumped in 100 octane, I couldn't have been happier.
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      08-27-2014, 12:37 PM   #12
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You guys make me laugh. Does anyone have an infrared thermometer?

My friend drove his M6 3 miles in 94 degree ambient tempts. Popped the hood and the HE was 154 degrees by infrared thermometer.

I doubt the S55 is much different.
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      08-27-2014, 11:08 PM   #13
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Water takes longer to cool down after it's been warmed up in comparison to air. That means that once the water heat soaks, it'll take longer to get it down to temp.

This is why a majority of race teams use air to air intercoolers on turbocharged setups.

BMW is incorporating the water to air intercoolers on most of their performance models in order to reduce as much transient response loss as possible due to the turbocharged system. They want you to feel like this is a naturally aspirated motor. While the existing system is ok for a stock car, it's certainly going to require upgrading at higher than stock HP and boost levels.
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      08-28-2014, 08:00 AM   #14
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My original point was just that it's a bit of novelty to see how thermally-efficient systems work. However, water-to-air intercoolers are more thermally-efficient than air-to-air (and are easier to package...esp in the case of the M5/M6) but when ambient air temps are high, not much you can do other than try to drive intake temperatures to ambient (still hot if it's 95 deg F outside). The M4 system is more carefully designed for more efficient cooling than the M5/M6 system, due to redundant intercoolers (two) and volume of the system.
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      08-28-2014, 12:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
The M4 system is more carefully designed for more efficient cooling than the M5/M6 system, due to redundant intercoolers (two) and volume of the system.
I'd like to see a full explanation of this.

Pics of the duplicate heat exchangers?

What is the volume of each system?
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      08-28-2014, 12:33 PM   #16
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I would argue that placing a heat exchanger just above the head is not the ideal location for heat management. Perhaps for packaging/shortening airflow path length, but not for cooling.
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      08-28-2014, 02:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tightie View Post
I ran my car in 98 degrees on Sunday, full 20 minute session.

With 91 octane, it sucked. It was getting heat soaked.

I dumped in 100 octane, I couldn't have been happier.
Same here, we on at almost every session at the Buttonwillow event in ~105F heat trying to see what would overheat first, while taking turns starting at water/oil temps on the Awron gauge.

Very happy. Cooling has MUCH improved on the S55 compared to S65.
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      08-28-2014, 04:12 PM   #18
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Diagram - Charge Air coolers

Great diagram on page 87 (Page 93 in the Abobe reader) of the attached BMW Tech Guide document that was posted here a month or so back. Tried to copy/paste, but I'm definitely software challenged, so couldn't make it work.
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      08-28-2014, 07:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Same here, we on at almost every session at the Buttonwillow event in ~105F heat trying to see what would overheat first, while taking turns starting at water/oil temps on the Awron gauge.

Very happy. Cooling has MUCH improved on the S55 compared to S65.
You rock!!! Great information.
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      08-29-2014, 05:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri
My original point was just that it's a bit of novelty to see how thermally-efficient systems work. However, water-to-air intercoolers are more thermally-efficient than air-to-air (and are easier to package...esp in the case of the M5/M6) but when ambient air temps are high, not much you can do other than try to drive intake temperatures to ambient (still hot if it's 95 deg F outside). The M4 system is more carefully designed for more efficient cooling than the M5/M6 system, due to redundant intercoolers (two) and volume of the system.
The M5/6 system is in a much more optimal position cooling wise and the actual intercooler cores are significantly larger . I ran 4 20 min sessions in 95 degree heat at Roebling road raceway with no temperature issues and max oil temps under 250 . No matter how good an air to water system a car has ( and this one is excellent) it certainly wasn't "cool to the touch at the end of a session when ambients are 90 lol . If they are you are the slowest driver on the planet and or you're car denies physics .
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      08-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrbri View Post
Great diagram on page 87 (Page 93 in the Abobe reader) of the attached BMW Tech Guide document that was posted here a month or so back. Tried to copy/paste, but I'm definitely software challenged, so couldn't make it work.
Fascinating.

It's not so much a redundant HE as they're plumbed in parallel.

It looks like more of an attempt to optimize utilization of frontal area airflow.

Glancing through the bumper of the M6, I think it may have essentially the same setup (with respect to the IC HE's in the nose).

System capacity is 4L.

Thanks for posting (or re-posting).

EDIT: Read the 63tu engine detail, it actually uses THREE cores to cool the fluid which cools the intake air charge. The s55 engine detail indicates system fluid capacity and system heat dissipation. The 63tu detail does not. It is likely based on what I've read that the 63tu system has the ability to dissipate more heat the the system on the s55. Perhaps more important and unclear at this point is system heat dissipation relative to power (heat) production i.e. which system has more head room.

Last edited by turbo8765; 08-30-2014 at 08:13 AM..
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      09-03-2014, 07:41 AM   #22
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S63TU

What's interesting when contrasting the S63 TU system and the S55 system is: The V-8 certainly has more cooling surface area for reducing intake charge temps that the I-6 does, but the S55 uses an auxillary coolant radiator up front to also cool the engine. The S63 engine radiator looks enormous, so maybe that is the balance.

One of the features of good engineering design is proper evaluation of the limitations and minimizing them. BMW has done some hard work here and incorporated some really advanced designs (separate cooling circuits for the turbo coolant flow, etc.).

I'll be curious to see where the oil temps climb to, on-track, for the F82. The highest I ever saw on my E90 was at Mt. Tremblant on a 95 degree F day. I was seeing around 250 and started to dial-back my revs to drop the oil temps.
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