BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-05-2014, 09:47 PM   #1
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Track Review (long one)

So I finally got my car back from ED. Just in time for the last track event of the season. It felt a little odd to drive the car directly from the dealer lot to the race track. On the drive up to the track, I averaged a very good 7.1 l/100km.

Note that since I was tight on timing, I ran the car completely stock. Stock tires, brakes and alignment.

This was a 3 day HPDE event at the Circuit Mont-Tremblant (LCMT) north of Montreal. This is fantastic track with many elevation changes and very fast corners. It used to be the site of a couple Canadian F1 Grand-Prix back in '68 and '70. The track was entirely restored to current FIA standards in the early-2000.

To give a little background about myself, I have been tracking cars for a little over 20 years. Started running A2 VW GTIs in time attack event in the early '90s eventually evolving into an E46 M3 in 2001. I then switched to an E92 M3 in 2008. I have been driving with the BMW Club Quebec chapter for 12 years and have been instructing with them for the last 5. See here for one of the last videos of my E92 at LCMT. I am far from being a professional, I am simply a very passionate amateur , so please take this review with that in perspective.

I truly loved my E92. It had that great combination of daily driver and track toy. Since I was so in love with my E92, I was a bit apprehensive of the F8X. The turbo engine was my biggest worry. Since I was happy with both my E46 and E92, I decided to take a leap of faith and give the F8X a go. After spending 3 days at the track, all I can say is WOW . What a machine . All my apprehension have been put to rest .


The chassis
It is a great improvement over the E9X. The weight reduction and increased stiffness can clearly be felt. The car pivots much more easily and responds extremely well to throttle modulation to precisely position the car. The rear axle is very well planted and is very talkative. My past M3s all had significant understeer in stock form and needed camber plates to balance the handling. The F8X is very neutral out of the box with excellent turn-in characteristics. That being said, I believe it still needs more camber up front to balance tire wear. The only negative, this car is big; but at least it does not feel too much that way.

The engine
This is the area I had the most apprehensions and I can say they all have been dispelled. The S55 paired with DCT makes for an excellent power train for the track. The power delivery is very linear through the gears, is very controllable and there is always plenty on tap. With its broad power plateau, the S55 pulls very strongly out of corners and continues to pull all the way up to 7300RPM. There is no sense of it running out of breath at all at high RPM. I exclusively used Sport+ while on the track and never did I feel any turbo lag. The engine and chassis combination responded very well to throttle steering to adjust the attitude of the car in both low speed and high speed corners. Both my E46 and E92 oil temperatures would creep up during long sessions, never to the point of overheating but they would creep up nonetheless. The S55's oil temperature stayed rock steady at 100deg C through two back to back 30 minute sessions (one hour non-stop). Further, after reading it on another thread, I popped the hood right after coming off track, and touched the intercooler. It was literally cold to the touch. My buddies who also touched it could not believe it. One of them thought I had put ice in the system. BMW has clearly done a great job with heat management on this engines. I was also a bit surprised with the fact that the F8X gobbles significantly more gas on the track than my E9X did. I guess it is to be expected; all that power needs to come from somewhere .

The steering
Very happy with the EPS. The weighing is just perfect for me in "Sport" on the track. It is very precise and gives appropriate feedback as to what the front tires are doing. It is not the most talkative and tactile but neither was my E9X steering before I dialled in more camber. Maybe the steering on the F8X will also improve a tad with more camber.

The brakes
I am very impressed with the stock iron brakes. I ran the stock pads and I was expecting them to be insufficient, but they proved to be reasonably adequate. On Friday, I ran five 30 minute sessions. No brake fade or bad pad deposit (leading to brake shudder). I have to say that I was extra careful, especially during the first sessions, and did a lot of brake management. But at the end of the day, I was hard on the brakes and it all went very well. The only major drawback is that the pads wore down pretty fast. The brakes are very easy to modulate with good initial bite and release and provide more than sufficient stopping power. I gave a ride to one of my fellow instructors, and his first comment was "f&*k man, this car can brake" . I can't wait to try them out with good track pads. A buddy of mine was running an F80 on Toyo R888 also on the stock pads. He was also very happy with the brakes' performance but he did suffer from a little of brake shudder at the end of the 3 days.

The tires
This was a repeat of my previous experience with my E92. The PSS are clearly not an adequate dry track tire. At first they were not too bad. In my first sessions I was careful with the brakes and tires. But as I got comfortable in the car, I started to push more (while making sure I was not overburdening/overheating the tires; I never got them to feel greasy), the front tires started to melt and chunk away on the outer edges. The PSS are great street tires and great wet track tires. But IMO, they are inadequate on a dry track when pushed.

The Settings and DSC
I set the M-Drive settings as follows:
Engine: Sport+
EDC: Sport+
Steering: Sport
DCT: S3
DSC: Off

For the first few laps I decided to go out with MDM activated. I must say it is way too intrusive to be able to exploit the wonderful chassis. After 3 laps of the system kicking in all the time and holding power, the brake pedal started to get mushy so I figured I had enough and turned the nannies off. The brakes came back immediately and the chassis became alive. I wonder how much better Euro MDM actually is, but the US MDM is way too restrictive. I think it is sort of odd, because it is soo restrictive, it will likely encourage people to drive with DSC off, which defeats the purpose of MDM.

On Saturday we had a very wet day, so I toned the suspension and DCT down a notch and ran with MDM for the benefit of the added safety net:
Engine: Sport+
EDC: Sport
Steering: Sport
DCT: S2
DSC: MDM

The sound
During our 4 week European Delivery trip, while I found the F8X made interesting noises, I was not enamoured with the overall sound of the engine. Since I was very pleased with the improvement the MPE made on my E92, I decided to order the MPE for my F82. I went with the Ti tips paired with the CF diffuser. The dealer installed the MPE and the other M-Perf parts before I picked up my car. I can say I am very pleased with the result. The engine now sounds much more alive and has a much more signature inline six growl. It is nice and quiet in "Efficient" mode and very loud and aggresive in Sport/Sport+. I received a lot of compliments about the car's sound at the track. The sound is also precise enough that I could easily shift by ear. The sound is also very pleasing inside the cabin both at the track and on the road. While it is not as melodious and refined as the S65, the S55 with the MPE does sound decent enough.

Conclusion
I am very happy with the car. I am very impressed on how well it performed at the track in completely stock form. It is the dual nature of the M3/4 that I have always appreciated and drew me to those cars. They are great daily drivers while being great and fun weekend track toys. With the F8X, BMW has been able to expand on both extremes. BMW has made an even better daily driver and an even better track toy out of the F8X . I am very impressed with the car and very happy with my choice . Now comes the long wait for the next track event in the spring
Attached Images
   

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-30-2018 at 08:08 PM..
Appreciate 3
guess2098515.00
MPoweRo428.00
      10-05-2014, 09:59 PM   #2
SakhirM4
Major General
SakhirM4's Avatar
United_States
10783
Rep
8,852
Posts

Drives: '15 SO M4/'20 Z4 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW Z4 M40i  [10.00]
2015 BMW M4  [8.76]
Great write-up. Thanks!!
__________________
Tejas Chapter, BMW CCA, mem #23915, President 27 years, www.tejaschapter.org
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2014, 10:42 PM   #3
FTS
Enjoying driving
FTS's Avatar
United_States
388
Rep
1,169
Posts

Drives: 645
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Thank you for the feedback CanAutM3, nice! I am glad you had a lot of fun, and I am sure you were tired after three days to tossing the car around

But give us more details on how the car supports or objects to various techniques; trailing the brakes, how and when you were able to apply the brakes/throttle, was it more point-n-shoot from corner to corner or earlier entry was better, how different was it between slow vs. high-speed corners, etc.? We need more juice, people need the juice

TIA.
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2014, 10:52 PM   #4
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Thank you for the feedback CanAutM3, nice! I am glad you had a lot of fun, and I am sure you were tired after three days to tossing the car around

But give us more details on how the car supports or objects to various techniques; trailing the brakes, how and when you were able to apply the brakes/throttle, was it more point-n-shoot from corner to corner or earlier entry was better, how different was it between slow vs. high-speed corners, etc.? We need more juice, people need the juice

TIA.
I do trail brake in almost every corner. The car's behaviour is very good. I'd say better than the E9X, probably due to the lighter and stiffer chassis. As I stated the brakes are very easy to modulate. You are hard on the brakes, then slowly release as you turn-in. In some corners I trail brake all the way to the apex and the car took it very well. The throttle response is also quick enough to allow you to easily catch the rotation.

As with all previous M3s, the car benefits from momentum. Sure, one can use the power to point and shoot, but one is much faster by keeping momentum AND leveraging the the power .

As I stated, the car pivots nicely (much better than the E9X IMO), so my technique is to keep the weight on the front axle until I get the car pointing where I want it to, catch it with the throttle and then power away.

The car is nice and neutral in all contexts, high and low speed corners and can be easily positioned with the throttle.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-05-2014 at 10:59 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2014, 10:53 PM   #5
Epoustouflant
Banned
Canada
1164
Rep
451
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Great post! I'll PM you next spring for some lessons with the BMW club if you don't mind!
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2014, 10:56 PM   #6
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epoustouflant View Post
Great post!
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epoustouflant View Post
I'll PM you next spring for some lessons with the BMW club if you don't mind!
No problem, would be my pleasure

Last edited by CanAutM3; 10-05-2014 at 11:03 PM..
Appreciate 0
      10-05-2014, 11:41 PM   #7
FTS
Enjoying driving
FTS's Avatar
United_States
388
Rep
1,169
Posts

Drives: 645
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)



Thank you for the explanations.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 12:22 AM   #8
M4isKing
Banned
4
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: no torque
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: at the track

iTrader: (0)

hows the transition from grip to loss of grip. i have to say its so easy in the e9x. although this weekend i failed a wide angle drift from lack of grunt low in the rpms

was it as easy to get the tail back in line or was it more abrupt?
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 06:37 AM   #9
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Added a section on settings and DSC to the OP
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 06:58 AM   #10
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Great write-up and very consistent views to my own. I can't wait for next Spring!!
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 07:24 AM   #11
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
812
Rep
7,888
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Hopefully I will get my car in time to go to Mosport on Thursday where I am instructing.I have only read positive track reviews so it only makes me more impatient the get my car!
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 08:46 AM   #12
M4isKing
Banned
4
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: no torque
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: at the track

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal
Great write-up and very consistent views to my own. I can't wait for next Spring!!
damn that sucks!!! such a long wait. in socal we have one season only. summer. lol. its October and it was 100F this weekend. sigh.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 09:10 AM   #13
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
812
Rep
7,888
Posts

Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

In rereading your review the only thing I question is how you can use more fuel than a E92 M3I was lucky to get 60 minutes of hard track time out of mine.But then to think about when I tracked by wife's old Mark V GTI it used a ton of fuel also.I guess that is the price of more horsepower & torque with a turbo engine.

Last edited by Gearhead999s; 10-06-2014 at 09:39 AM..
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 09:34 AM   #14
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
In rereading your review the only thing I question is how you can use more fuel than a E92 M3I was lucky to get 60 minutes of hard track time out of mine.But then to think about when I tracked by wife's old Mark V GTI it used a ton of fuel also.I guess that is the price of more & torque with a turbo engine.
I was also surprised by how much gas it gobbled. We were running 30 minute sessions on Friday and one tank was not enough for two sessions. I took about 35~40 liters per session. The S55 does make 425hp all the time when you are on it, which is considerably more than the S65 that made 414hp only at 8300rpm. At least that is how I explain it...
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 10:56 AM   #15
M4isKing
Banned
4
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: no torque
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: at the track

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
In rereading your review the only thing I question is how you can use more fuel than a E92 M3I was lucky to get 60 minutes of hard track time out of mine.But then to think about when I tracked by wife's old Mark V GTI it used a ton of fuel also.I guess that is the price of more & torque with a turbo engine.
I was also surprised by how much gas it gobbled. We were running 30 minute sessions on Friday and one tank was not enough for two sessions. I took about 35~40 liters per session. The S55 does make 425hp all the time when you are on it, which is considerably more than the S65 that made 414hp only at 8300rpm. At least that is how I explain it...
high hp turbos...more air, more fuel!!

how was sport+ throttle. you mentioned it got rid of lag but then was it too twitchy and just had to modulate much more?

what throttle map did you use for your e92?
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 11:25 AM   #16
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Nice write up and really interesting about how the intercooler was cool to the touch!
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 11:28 AM   #17
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
10711
Rep
27,529
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

I always enjoy reading track guy write ups. well written and thank you for putting it together! Glad your enjoying your car!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST!
Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101
vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties!
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 11:37 AM   #18
M4TW
///M Uber Alles
M4TW's Avatar
Canada
329
Rep
1,601
Posts

Drives: '15 MW M4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GSA

iTrader: (1)

Will your disappointment with the tires lead you to replace them? Will you keep the stock wheels and go with a different tire? If so what size and which tire? Or will you get a completely different set for the track? I guess you will have all winter to answer this question but I am curious as to your preliminary thoughts/strategy.

In my noob foray at the track I found the tires to be great in the wet and good in the dry. They were downright dangerous at the drag strip, however, for reasons that escape me.
__________________
die Welt ist meine Auster
2015 M4, MW, Black Full Merino, DCT, CCB, Adaptive M Suspension, Premium, Executive. Technology, ConnectedDrive, CF Trim, Convenience Telephony, European Delivery
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 12:07 PM   #19
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
Will your disappointment with the tires lead you to replace them? Will you keep the stock wheels and go with a different tire? If so what size and which tire? Or will you get a completely different set for the track? I guess you will have all winter to answer this question but I am curious as to your preliminary thoughts/strategy.

In my noob foray at the track I found the tires to be great in the wet and good in the dry. They were downright dangerous at the drag strip, however, for reasons that escape me.
It was not a disappointment per se with the PSS, because it is what I expected.

I thought of bringing my track wheels and tires, but I was worried that I would cook the brakes with R-comps. I guess I should have brought the wheels because I ended up cooking the tires instead.

On my E92, I used a dedicated set of Enkei NT03 18"x10" wheels shod with 275/35 Nitto NT01s. They were fantastic. I need to try them out on the M4 if they fit. According to my math the offsets should be good, I just need to confirm they clear the brakes. If it works out, that will be my track setup.

As far as the PSS go, I will stick with them because they are such a great street tire and wet track tire. I will just need to buy a new set of fronts in the spring
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 12:23 PM   #20
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M4isKing View Post
high hp turbos...more air, more fuel!!

how was sport+ throttle. you mentioned it got rid of lag but then was it too twitchy and just had to modulate much more?

what throttle map did you use for your e92?
I like a sharp throttle pedal. I learned to drive on a track with a modified GTI on a pair of twin Webber carbs with 289 cams. Talk about sharp throttle response. That is the way I like it. You just need to calibrate your right foot to be smooth. On my E92 I used the Sport setting as it the one that felt the most natural to me. Normal seemed artificially dampened while Sport+ seemed artificially too short.

Sport+ on the F8X is just perfect IMO as it does more than just throttle map.

As an instructor, I often observe that a bad position of the right foot to be the culprit of jerky throttle inputs by students. The throttle pedal on BMWs is hinged at the bottom, which is a great feature. The heel of the right foot should rest against the hinge and the whole foot should be used to depress the pedal. This way you can use you right heel to brace yourself and have good control over the pedal. The mistake is to use only the toes to press in the middle of the throttle pedal. This way a small movement of the foot translates in a big throttle change. Further, by doing so, the toes need to slip up and down on the pedal as it moves and the friction can cause jerkiness.
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #21
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Nice write up and really interesting about how the intercooler was cool to the touch!
Not only cool, but actually cold.

It was funny when I asked folks to touch the intercooler, they were all very prudent as to not get burnt. And then see the look on their face when they actually touched it
Appreciate 0
      10-06-2014, 12:52 PM   #22
M4isKing
Banned
4
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: no torque
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: at the track

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I like a sharp throttle pedal. I learned to drive on a track with a modified GTI on a pair of twin Webber carbs with 289 cams. Talk about sharp throttle response. That is the way I like it. You just need to calibrate your right foot to be smooth. On my E92 I used the Sport setting as it the one that felt the most natural to me. Normal seemed artificially dampened while Sport+ seemed artificially too short.

Sport+ on the F8X is just perfect IMO as it does more than just throttle map.

As an instructor, I often observe that a bad position of the right foot to be the culprit of jerky throttle inputs by students. The throttle pedal on BMWs is hinged at the bottom, which is a great feature. The heel of the right foot should rest against the hinge and the whole foot should be used to depress the pedal. This way you can use you right heel to brace yourself and have good control over the pedal. The mistake is to use only the toes to press in the middle of the throttle pedal. This way a small movement of the foot translates in a big throttle change. Further, by doing so, the toes need to slip up and down on the pedal as it moves and the friction can cause jerkiness.
sometimes I use the sport setting..so this time sport+ is actually useful? (although in a manual car, I would hate that autoblipping).
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST