Is Stock M4 a good track car?

[drsrock]

Does any one regularly track their M4? What are the issues? Is it reliable under heavy track use? I, and my son will be using the car during track days, and our run groups are often back to back, so the car will have to take 1.5hrs of continuous track use. Can it handle it?
How are the brakes, and suspension compared to M3?

Any input from experienced track members would be appreciated.

[myzmak]

Lots of posts in this (search or look at the track sub forum) but I think the collected wisdom is yes, absolutely it works. Maybe get track pads to save stock brakes but absolutely it can take the pounding.

As real pros like @maynardzed or @canautm3 or @karussell

[Green///Hell]

Get your son an E46 track car!

[gthal]

My experience is that with a brake pad swap and some fluid, the car would be fine at the track for relatively heavy and extended use. It is well sorted out of the box. You might want to swap the tires because the OEM PSS won't last long and get really greasy... so whoever is in the second session won't have fun sliding all over the track. Throw a set of AD-08R on it and then you are in great shape.

However, if you are going to beat the crap out of a car for extended track use, I would probably put together a dedicated E36 M3. You can flog them forever and if it is built right will be as fast on most tracks and WAY less money to build and maintain.

For me, the F8X M cars are best suited as a daily car with 10 to 15 track days a year at most before wear/tear really take a toll on what is otherwise a fairly expensive car. Beyond that and you need something a bit more dedicated IMO but that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by drsrock

How are the brakes, and suspension compared to M3?

They are identical. The M3/M4 are essentially the same car other than number of doors.

[Powaup]

this should help you:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1041838

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by gthal

My experience is that with a brake pad swap and some fluid, the car would be fine at the track for relatively heavy and extended use. It is well sorted out of the box. You might want to swap the tires because the OEM PSS won't last long and get really greasy... so whoever is in the second session won't have fun sliding all over the track. Throw a set of AD-08R on it and then you are in great shape.

However, if you are going to beat the crap out of a car for extended track use, I would probably put together a dedicated E36 M3. You can flog them forever and if it is built right will be as fast on most tracks and WAY less money to build and maintain.

For me, the F8X M cars are best suited as a daily car with 10 to 15 track days a year at most before wear/tear really take a toll on what is otherwise a fairly expensive car. Beyond that and you need something a bit more dedicated IMO but that's just my opinion.



They are identical. The M3/M4 are essentially the same car other than number of doors.

I agree

But I would add cars like a Miata or s2000 (my choice) for a track car over an e36. Or at least they should be considered

In a way the m3 is very fast on track but I neger get rid of that pucker factor having such a fast and pricey car on teack with dsc off

[captainaudio]

In my experience if you are serious about tracking you will eventually want to get a dedicated track car. The M3/4 are good track cars for BMWCCA track days and similar events but there have been compromises made as they are basically intended to be road cars. Probably about the best car available that is a good track car and a comfortable and practical daily driver.

Obviously they are totally unsuited for racing and competition without some major mods that will make them unusable as road cars.

CA

[drsrock]

Thanks for all the input. Truly appreciate it.
I actually have a Lemons car. I get my racing jollies with that, and do not need dedicated track car. This M4 is an in-between the races DE/open track car. I do not discount the cheaper, and older dedicated M Cars, but I want a car under warranty. Just want to know if the M4 is solid enough to take heavy track abuse.

This thread is to answer one question - Does it have any known problems that only a heavy track use can expose?

[FTS]

Originally Posted by drsrock

This thread is to answer one question - Does it have any known problems that only a heavy track use can expose?

The car hasn't been out long enough that I think anyone really knows at this time. We'll know in about 2 years I think.

[8600RPM]

Come in guys, I have been out in a stock e92 as a beginner to intermediate driver and never had any problem with flawless car performance. No brake fluid or pads. I think one is using brakes inappropriately if that is,weak point on the f80 especially. Stock PSS worked great

[gthal]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Come in guys, I have been out in a stock e92 as a beginner to intermediate driver and never had any problem with flawless car performance. No brake fluid or pads. I think one is using brakes inappropriately if that is,weak point on the f80 especially. Stock PSS worked great

If you haven't had brake pad fade or greasy tires, it is because you are not pushing the car hard/fast enough yet. I think most, if not all, of the experienced track junkies around here would be swapping pads and fluid and they are most definitely using the brakes appropriately The brakes on the F8X are actually very good but street pads are just that... street pads.

When I first starting going to the track years ago, I didn't change the pads or tires and they were fine. Over time, as my speeds increased, pads started to fade, tires would get greasy and slippery after about 10min into a lapping session. I think most people who are spending a lot of time at the track will start with pads/brake fluid first and eventually go with tires too. ESPECIALLY the OP who is sharing the car and going back to back sessions with no real ability to cool the brakes.

[drsrock]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Come in guys, I have been out in a stock e92 as a beginner to intermediate driver and never had any problem with flawless car performance. No brake fluid or pads. I think one is using brakes inappropriately if that is,weak point on the f80 especially. Stock PSS worked great

You are still learning the limits of your comfort level, the car, and "the line". Advanced groups are very hard on their equipment. The cars are taken to their limits, or 95% of it. You got a heavy car. To slow it down, if you are truly "track driving" it, undersized stock brakes get overwhelmed pretty quick. Once you get faster, you too will experience brake fade pretty early in your session. It's a lot of fun getting there! Enjoy the process!

My son and I beat the crap out of track cars. Brakes are the 1st thing to go. From what I can see, M4 has better venting/cooling system than e92. Still, at the very least, I will install track pads, if not Stoptech Trophy fronts. I am trying to gauge the use level where the stock starts to sponge up. I don't believe that stock brakes can hold up to a hard 45 min session, let alone 2nd one back to back. It would be amazing if they actually do. That would save major $$$.

[CanAutM3]

I think the M3/4 is one of the best dual purpose (DD/track) cars out there .

All the car really needs, IMO, for serious tracking is good track pads and front camber plates.

See link below for my detailed track review.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1043515

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by drsrock

You are still learning the limits of your comfort level, the car, and "the line". Advanced groups are very hard on their equipment. The cars are taken to their limits, or 95% of it. You got a heavy car. To slow it down, if you are truly "track driving" it, undersized stock brakes get overwhelmed pretty quick. Once you get faster, you too will experience brake fade pretty early in your session. It's a lot of fun getting there! Enjoy the process!

My son and I beat the crap out of track cars. Brakes are the 1st thing to go. From what I can see, M4 has better venting/cooling system than e92. Still, at the very least, I will install track pads, if not Stoptech Trophy fronts. I am trying to gauge the use level where the stock starts to sponge up. I don't believe that stock brakes can hold up to a hard 45 min session, let alone 2nd one back to back. It would be amazing if they actually do. That would save major $$$.

45 minute sessions wow, who are you running with? Brakes and tires will not hold up if you two are fairly experienced and pushing the car hard. Pads, brake fluid, and tires would be suggested. Whoever is first should come off early. Check tire pressures often. Add some race gas in there.

Mechanically I'm confident it will be fine. To be fair there really aren't any street cars that are going to hold up well to 2 back to back 45 minute sessions (Porsche?) driven hard by experienced drivers.

[heckyeahbro69]

I beat my car for 2 days at Daytona without a single hiccup. 100% showroom stock. no overheating or limp mode or any thing like that. brakes were good imo but Daytona Isnt really a hard track on brakes. I like the fact that the car is fully under warranty and maintenance so if anything goes wrong, It's taken care of. for what you want to do, it's an ideal car I think.

[drsrock]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

45 minute sessions wow, who are you running with? Brakes and tires will not hold up if you two are fairly experienced and pushing the car hard. Pads, brake fluid, and tires would be suggested. Whoever is first should come off early. Check tire pressures often. Add some race gas in there.

Mechanically I'm confident it will be fine. To be fair there really aren't any street cars that are going to hold up well to 2 back to back 45 minute sessions (Porsche?) driven hard by experienced drivers.

Open track mostly with Chin, private days at NJMP, Track Time for Cars, Hooked on driving. There are usually only 3 run groups at those events, so you are on there for a prolonged time. Tons of track time.

My previous car was a Porsche 911GTS. Now I got a Ferrari which is a very expensive car to track, so it barely sees track days. M4 would be my wife's daily in addition to her Wrangler, and my track car.

[nicknaz]

OP, have you given any thought to something purpose built like a Radical or a used stock car with the short wheelbase that is setup for road racing?

I know if budget wasn't an issue I'd bypass street cars altogether and go that route, especially if you need the machine to handle 45min+ of hard lapping

[drsrock]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

OP, have you given any thought to something purpose built like a Radical or a used stock car with the short wheelbase that is setup for road racing?

I know if budget wasn't an issue I'd bypass street cars altogether and go that route, especially if you need the machine to handle 45min+ of hard lapping

I thought about it, but with Lemons races, I do not go to the track enough for a Radical or a dedicated track car. Like I said, I am looking for a worry free track experience with a street car that can handle extended sessions. I want to know what problems track junkies have hade(if any) with M4.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by drsrock

I want to know what problems track junkies have hade(if any) with M4.

I put in my M3 order based on this forum suggesting the car is fine for the usage you are asking about with different tires and brake pads and maybe more front negative camber

Hope it works out in reality for both of us!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by drsrock

Does any one regularly track their M4? What are the issues? Is it reliable under heavy track use? I, and my son will be using the car during track days, and our run groups are often back to back, so the car will have to take 1.5hrs of continuous track use. Can it handle it?
How are the brakes, and suspension compared to M3?

Any input from experienced track members would be appreciated.

The answer is definitely yes.

My brother and I have double-tracked a 150k mile 12 year old E46M with only light mods and it works wonderfully well.

You will need camber plates for front tire wear and make sure you do not get the ceramic brakes. You will also need track pads like any other car.

Ms always make excellent platforms for the track

[FTS]

What's wrong with ceramics?

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by FTS

What's wrong with ceramics?

Lots if you are serious about going to the track a lot.From what I have seen with ceramics on Porsches.They do not last long enough for the extra expense of replacing rotors & pads over the steel brakes.They do have a finite life like any wear item.