Coby Wheel
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-24-2015, 08:27 PM   #1
Fahrvergnügen
Banned
United_States
753
Rep
1,208
Posts

Drives: geo metro
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: home

iTrader: (1)

Tracking your car for starters

Hi everyone,

I am looking to join MVP Track Time for my first track day. I will be using my M4 stock and will be doing about 6 20 minute sessions.

I am obviously not going to be racing or drifting but rather just learning the car, the course and more about myself (haha). However, I don't want to be unprepared or set unrealistic expectations.

What, if anything, should I bring with me outside of the standard equipment (helmet, long sleeves, etc.)?

On average, how much tread should I expect to lose on my tires keeping in mind that I won't be slaying my car the first time?

Will I need to replace the brake pads after my session?

Will you get major rock chip damage at courses like Autobahn Country Club or Road America?

Are there any dos or don'ts I should be aware of?

Sorry if all of this sounds too novice. I really am interested in getting into tracking my car a few times a year but I want to know what I am in for and be prepared where I can.

Thanks all.
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2015, 09:33 PM   #2
FTS
Enjoying driving
FTS's Avatar
United_States
388
Rep
1,169
Posts

Drives: 645
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Good for you; awesome!

First thing, do not worry about the car and the small stuff. Just focus, concentrate on learning the track line, and listening to your instructor. Relaxing before the event and each session is really important, so don't worry about rock chips (may happen, but I doubt it), or what may go wrong mechanically with the car (I am sure it will be fine).

I'd suggest to have a torque wrench and tire pressure gauge, and maybe a quart of engine oil. I highly doubt you will have noticeable wear on your tires, unless you drive really over the limit, I'd suspect as a novice you won't. Brake pads should be fine, you should not worry about it, but if you can have your brake fluid changed to something like Motul 600, it would be a good precaution.

Make sure to talk with your instructor before each of your sessions and be honest about your desires, objectives and also issues. If you have any issue of communication, personality, etc. with your instructor, don't let that ruin your event, cordially bring it up with the chief instructor, they'll do their best to accommodate you, not everyone will automatically get along, it is completely normal.

Enjoy, have fun, relax, and have some more fun. Good luck. Let us know how went afterward
Appreciate 0
      02-24-2015, 10:26 PM   #3
Gac101177
M4-SAHD
Gac101177's Avatar
510
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jacksonville

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS
Good for you; awesome!

First thing, do not worry about the car and the small stuff. Just focus, concentrate on learning the track line, and listening to your instructor. Relaxing before the event and each session is really important, so don't worry about rock chips (may happen, but I doubt it), or what may go wrong mechanically with the car (I am sure it will be fine).

I'd suggest to have a torque wrench and tire pressure gauge, and maybe a quart of engine oil. I highly doubt you will have noticeable wear on your tires, unless you drive really over the limit, I'd suspect as a novice you won't. Brake pads should be fine, you should not worry about it, but if you can have your brake fluid changed to something like Motul 600, it would be a good precaution.

Make sure to talk with your instructor before each of your sessions and be honest about your desires, objectives and also issues. If you have any issue of communication, personality, etc. with your instructor, don't let that ruin your event, cordially bring it up with the chief instructor, they'll do their best to accommodate you, not everyone will automatically get along, it is completely normal.

Enjoy, have fun, relax, and have some more fun. Good luck. Let us know how went afterward
Congrats, I'll also be doing my first track day in April at Roebling road I'm subscribing to you tread can't wait very exited I'm also interested in hearing to the experts on the forum. Again congrats.
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 01:53 AM   #4
brian99997
Second Lieutenant
45
Rep
202
Posts

Drives: slowly
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoM4 View Post
On average, how much tread should I expect to lose on my tires keeping in mind that I won't be slaying my car the first time?

Will I need to replace the brake pads after my session?
Not enough tread to worry about but maybe 6 months worth? They will look a bit different when they feather but the street will smooth them back out in a week or so.

I would personally seek out a new set of brake pads before, I've had luck with Pagid RS29. Save the stock pads for the street where they are quiet as the pagids squeal a bit.

Have fun!
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 03:11 AM   #5
robbo mcs
First Lieutenant
Australia
142
Rep
317
Posts

Drives: F82 M4 and others
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

A few pointers on what to look out for mechanically for beginners going out the first time

Brakes : Try and either be on the the brakes or off the brakes, don't "ride" the brakes, half on. It is very important to do a good cool down lap at the end of the session. This means circulate around at 75% speed and don't use the brakes unless absolutely necessary. This gets airflow and cooling happening, and will really help preserve the brakes and prevent deposits. Also helps cool the fluids on the car. If for some reason you can't do a cool down lap, drive around the paddock or go out on the street for 5 minutes. If you stop and see smoke coming out of the front pads they are still too hot, so go and drive around a little more. Don't put the handbrake on when you come in, it can stick to the hot pads. Visually check the brake pads after each session. It is surprising how quick they can disappear!

Tires : you should be aiming for a "hot" temperature. On our car with stock tyres 35psi all around is a good starting point. This means you probably will need to start at around 30 cold for the first session. When you come in check the hot pressure, and bleed it down to 35. Do this after each session. You will probably find it keeps going up slightly after each session, as you will be driving harder and the air temps go up. Visually check the tread of the tires after each session to see how they are faring. At the end of the day you will need to put air in. The 35 "hot" tires will go down to 28 or so as you drive home and they cool down. Also during the day the tires will have picked up lots of "marbles" and debris from the track. You can see this on the tires. Driving home this will make the tires noisy, and occasionally you hear bits flying off or rattling. Don't panic, thats normal

Wheels : check the wheel nuts frequently, especially if you have changed wheels for the day.

General mechanical sympathy : let the car cool down with a good cool down lap. It is good practice to let the car run for a minute or so when you stop. Check the oil level a few times during the day (it is easy on this car!). Check the fuel level after every session as you will use a lot of fuel. Don't let the tank get too low, the computer predicted range will not be reliable.

That covers the basic mechanical things.
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 07:14 AM   #6
Mortis
Second Lieutenant
Mortis's Avatar
82
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: 2017 M4 Comp
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arlington VA

iTrader: (0)

This is all great advice, but I do worry about the stock tires (the MPSS). I'm still a beginner, with a couple of track days under my belt so when I took my M4 out for the first time ever I was intentionally taking it easy. To my surprise though the rubber on the tires (front and rear on the outward facing edges) partially melted after only a couple of short track sessions - something that never happened to me with my previous car (a 435i). I was definitely not pushing the car to its limits, and had either full DSC or MDM on all time. I have a feeling the stock tires won't last very long...
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 01:08 PM   #7
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbo mcs View Post
Don't put the handbrake on when you come in, it can stick to the hot pads.
As a tidbit, the parking brake (hand brake) on the F8X is a separate drum brake inside of the disc hub, as was the case on previous generation M3s. There is therefore little risk in using the parking brake after a session.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 01:10 PM   #8
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
This is all great advice, but I do worry about the stock tires (the MPSS). I'm still a beginner, with a couple of track days under my belt so when I took my M4 out for the first time ever I was intentionally taking it easy. To my surprise though the rubber on the tires (front and rear on the outward facing edges) partially melted after only a couple of short track sessions - something that never happened to me with my previous car (a 435i). I was definitely not pushing the car to its limits, and had either full DSC or MDM on all time. I have a feeling the stock tires won't last very long...
DSC/MDM actually increase the stress on the front tires. DSC/MDM will frequently apply the front outside brake in anticipation of an oversteer. This puts an additional load on the outside front tire.

I do agree that the PSS are not really adequate for dry track use, especially when pushed a little.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 01:12 PM   #9
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
but if you can have your brake fluid changed to something like Motul 600, it would be a good precaution.
I would not worry about the stock brake fluid. As long as it is less than one year old, you should be fine.

I have 150+ combined track days on my E46 and E92 M3s all with the stock fluid and never had an issue.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 01:19 PM   #10
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
OP, congratulation in registering to this event. You have done the best thing to allow to fully appreciate the performance potential of your car.

As FTS has posted, I would not worry about the car. Ensure you have sufficient thread on your tires and thick enough pads on the brakes (which should not be a problem, given your car is fairly new).

I would not worry too much about wear on the car. I did a 3 day event (14 30min sessions) in the fall and I am still running the same pads and tires. Further, as a beginner, you probably will not be pushing that much.

Just go out there, stay relaxed and hydrated, always listen to your instructor and above all, have fun .
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 02:41 PM   #11
stevenc
Coming Soon
United_States
254
Rep
960
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M4 Alphine White MT
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Have a map of the track handy and study it before your first session but especially after your first session. Figure out which corners gave you problems and why. Often on tight technical tracks there are multiple tight corners and you loose perception of where you are in the track and jump on the gas coming out of corner only to find you still had one more tight corner to go before the straight.

Take all loose items out of the car (Radar detectors, garage remotes ect) so they don't start flying around the car during a lap. Initially don't try and change gears too often, the car has enough torque for any gear. Focus more on learning the course and the lines even if you enter a corner in 4th when maybe you should have been in 3rd.
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 02:47 PM   #12
PriZeFighter13
Private
PriZeFighter13's Avatar
United_States
18
Rep
82
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 YMB/BLK 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gac101177 View Post
Congrats, I'll also be doing my first track day in April at Roebling road I'm subscribing to you tread can't wait very exited I'm also interested in hearing to the experts on the forum. Again congrats.
Are you doing the Seat Time Performance event or the NASA-SE event?
__________________
2015 F80 M3 YMB 6MT
2012 E92 M3 Space Grey DCT - Sold
1991 Z32 300zx 2+2 TT 5MT
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 03:09 PM   #13
Gac101177
M4-SAHD
Gac101177's Avatar
510
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jacksonville

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriZeFighter13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gac101177 View Post
Congrats, I'll also be doing my first track day in April at Roebling road I'm subscribing to you tread can't wait very exited I'm also interested in hearing to the experts on the forum. Again congrats.
Are you doing the Seat Time Performance event or the NASA-SE event?
Florida Crown Region PCA DE April 18,19
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 03:50 PM   #14
Cloud9blue
Brigadier General
Cloud9blue's Avatar
United_States
709
Rep
3,251
Posts

Drives: around the potholes
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NY/NJ/MA

iTrader: (13)

I have been to ACC a few times, both 4 wheels and 2 wheels. I think you will be ok with F8x stock steel brakes at this particular track, especially if you drive at a novice pace rather than being super aggressive. With stock PSS, you might encounter some significant shoulder wears at the front tires, due to the lack of negative cambers on any stock BMWs. Road America is a different matter. You better invest in some true race pads for that track.

What's your driving experience? If you really know what you are doing and drive 9/10 to 10/10 all day, I bet you will kill the front left tires at north course pretty quickly in a day or two. But they should last if you go easy on them.

Road chips or marks from tire debris are inevitable. But it really isn't end of the world, these are mass produced cars anyway, not like they are collectible one-offs. If you are worry about that, don't track the car Road chips are the least of your worry once you start tracking, especially when you are doing 150-160mph on Road America.
__________________
09 BMW E92 335i: Top Mount EFR 7670 / Dinan / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Mod List]
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
19 Volvo V90 T6: R-Design / Bowers & Wilkins / Polestar Optimization
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 04:07 PM   #15
Jacky Treehorn
Private First Class
135
Rep
115
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
This is all great advice, but I do worry about the stock tires (the MPSS). I'm still a beginner, with a couple of track days under my belt so when I took my M4 out for the first time ever I was intentionally taking it easy. To my surprise though the rubber on the tires (front and rear on the outward facing edges) partially melted after only a couple of short track sessions - something that never happened to me with my previous car (a 435i). I was definitely not pushing the car to its limits, and had either full DSC or MDM on all time. I have a feeling the stock tires won't last very long...
I think relative to some other cars, the tires on the M3/M4 will probably suffer more tread-wear due to the high torque and more frequent oversteer. Traction loss in the rear will drive the temperatures higher and make consistent and repeatable lap times tougher if driving is not smooth. I've heard from a few people that they use eco mode to make the throttle more linear.
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 04:44 PM   #16
mtecnic
BMW Super Enthusiast
mtecnic's Avatar
126
Rep
245
Posts

Drives: F10 535ixDrive, E39 M5
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

If you're doing Road America...

Swap out the brake fluid with something that has a higher boiling point. SRF comes to mind. You could see 120-150 on all three straights depending on how much balls you give it. Last thing you want to do on a track day you pay big dollars for is to miss/skip a session because you boiled your fluid and have to bleed it out or swap it out entirely. RA can be tough on brakes.

+1 to the torque wrench and pressure gauge.
__________________
'15 ///M3 - Daily ****** '97 ///M3 - Track Car
'04 330ci ZHP - sold **** '08 ///M3 - sold
'00 328i - sold ********* '00 323i - totalled
'94 325ix - Parted *** '92 318i vert - sold
'94 325i - Rear End Total ***** '01 330ci - traded
Appreciate 0
      02-25-2015, 05:28 PM   #17
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn View Post
I think relative to some other cars, the tires on the M3/M4 will probably suffer more tread-wear due to the high torque and more frequent oversteer. Traction loss in the rear will drive the temperatures higher and make consistent and repeatable lap times tougher if driving is not smooth. I've heard from a few people that they use eco mode to make the throttle more linear.
Usually, at the track, stock M3(4) always destroy their front tires first due to the basic understeer nature designed into the car.

If you are always having the tail out, I am pretty sure your instructor will pull you in the pits to have "a little chat"
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 02-26-2015 at 02:27 PM..
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2015, 12:50 AM   #18
nicknaz
Lieutenant General
nicknaz's Avatar
3183
Rep
10,509
Posts

Drives: C6Z
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NorCal

iTrader: (0)

Hi OP, 2 things I wish I had on my first day are a 2 gallon jug of water and sunscreen.

Have fun!
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2015, 12:02 PM   #19
Fahrvergnügen
Banned
United_States
753
Rep
1,208
Posts

Drives: geo metro
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: home

iTrader: (1)

WOW! This thread has been extremely helpful and cures a lot of my anxiety.

After reading through all the posts, and understanding that I won't be thrashing my car around my first track day, I think I have a much better sense of what to do / not to do and some essential items to bring to the track.

If anyone will be at Autobahn on June 1, I would love to meet up.

Thanks!
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2015, 04:16 PM   #20
Brosef
Brigadier General
Brosef's Avatar
United_States
872
Rep
3,446
Posts

Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoM4 View Post
Hi everyone,

I am looking to join MVP Track Time for my first track day. I will be using my M4 stock and will be doing about 6 20 minute sessions.

I am obviously not going to be racing or drifting but rather just learning the car, the course and more about myself (haha). However, I don't want to be unprepared or set unrealistic expectations.

What, if anything, should I bring with me outside of the standard equipment (helmet, long sleeves, etc.)?

On average, how much tread should I expect to lose on my tires keeping in mind that I won't be slaying my car the first time?

Will I need to replace the brake pads after my session?

Will you get major rock chip damage at courses like Autobahn Country Club or Road America?

Are there any dos or don'ts I should be aware of?

Sorry if all of this sounds too novice. I really am interested in getting into tracking my car a few times a year but I want to know what I am in for and be prepared where I can.

Thanks all.
MVP is a great group. just show up with the right attitude and don't drive beyond your limits until you get comfortable. also, make sure you stay hydrated and see if you're up for the 6th session of the day. I always found I was tired, and the only couple oh-shit moments I've ever had on track we're both on the last session. I might almost suggest just sitting that one out, although it's always a good one since a lot of people drop so the track is pretty empty.

never got any rock chips at Road America or Autobahn. RA laps the track with a giant tractor blower before the day that I think helps a lot with clearing any debris. be prepared for lots of rubber marks all over your bumper and hood though. they come off with a wash and a little elbow grease.
Appreciate 0
      02-26-2015, 04:52 PM   #21
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
be prepared for lots of rubber marks all over your bumper and hood though. they come off with a wash and a little elbow grease.
Have you ever tried Automotive Goo-Gone? Works wonders on those nasty rubber marks. Simply spray on, wait a minute or two and wipe off .
Attached Images
 
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
      02-27-2015, 09:20 AM   #22
Brosef
Brigadier General
Brosef's Avatar
United_States
872
Rep
3,446
Posts

Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Have you ever tried Automotive Goo-Gone? Works wonders on those nasty rubber marks. Simply spray on, wait a minute or two and wipe off .
have not, but I've been amazed by how well Goo Gone cleaner works. I'll have to give it a try once I get back in the saddle. thanks
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST