[abirmaher]

Hi All,

I have had my M235i now for almost 10 months and have had H and R lowering springs on it since about 1200 miles. Now at almost 15000 I'm struggling to remain content with the ride the springs provide. The springs are great for day to day, in look and comfort. But when I'm doing more aggressive driving I have found that the suspension is a bit too floaty and just not firm enough for me (I drive in sport+ 100% of the time, so the car is in its firmest suspension setting for the dampers as well).

My question is, what might be the best setup to try next? I was considering BC coil overs. They seem to be the best bang for buck, my worry is that I have heard and seen many posts about issues resulting from the replacement of the stock dampers. Any experince with this? Can I do something to mitigate these issues? Any downsides?

Another option would be Dinan springs and BMW Supplemental Ride Quality & Handling Kit from Dinan as well. From what I understand this would raise my ride height which I'm not really willing to do either... but I'm just looking for opinions.

The other option i have been considering is getting hold of some sway bars, which i have contacted a few companies for that I have seen are in development but have not heard back from any of them.

I want a ride thats firm without being uncomfortable. I want something i can throw into a corner and not feel like I'm floating as much as I am. I know I'm being a little picky here but I've already put a lot of work, time and money into my car and this is one of the main remaining problems areas so I would love some feedback, preferably from someone running one of these setups or who has driven different setups.

Thanks in advance!

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Hi All,

I have had my M235i now for almost 10 months and have had H and R lowering springs on it since about 1200 miles. Now at almost 15000 I'm struggling to remain content with the ride the springs provide. The springs are great for day to day, in look and comfort. But when I'm doing more aggressive driving I have found that the suspension is a bit too floaty and just not firm enough for me (I drive in sport+ 100% of the time, so the car is in its firmest suspension setting for the dampers as well).

My question is, what might be the best setup to try next? I was considering BC coil overs. They seem to be the best bang for buck, my worry is that I have heard and seen many posts about issues resulting from the replacement of the stock dampers. Any experince with this? Can I do something to mitigate these issues? Any downsides?

Another option would be Dinan springs and BMW Supplemental Ride Quality & Handling Kit from Dinan as well. From what I understand this would raise my ride height which I'm not really willing to do either... but I'm just looking for opinions.

The other option i have been considering is getting hold of some sway bars, which i have contacted a few companies for that I have seen are in development but have not heard back from any of them.

I want a ride thats firm without being uncomfortable. I want something i can throw into a corner and not feel like I'm floating as much as I am. I know I'm being a little picky here but I've already put a lot of work, time and money into my car and this is one of the main remaining problems areas so I would love some feedback, preferably from someone running one of these setups or who has driven different setups.

Thanks in advance!

Interesting opinion. I'm just about to get the H&Rs installed on my car -- I'm at 11k miles.

I wanted a drop and a little more composure. I've heard differing opinions on the H&R -- some say great, others say just "ok." I did get them for $230 bucks though, so either way it was a screaming deal.

I've done 10 days on the track with the stock suspension. I don't really feel the "floaty" you're talking about, but, to an extent suspension is subjective.

I think a good idea for you might be the KW DDC plug n play kit. They're adaptive coilovers that are a dirct PNP into the M235i Adaptive Suspension system. I was considering these before I realized I had bigger fish to fry before I go that route (although some day, maybe).

Check them out. Might be what you're looking for, and KW makes quality stuff.

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Interesting opinion. I'm just about to get the H&Rs installed on my car -- I'm at 11k miles.

I wanted a drop and a little more composure. I've heard differing opinions on the H&R -- some say great, others say just "ok." I did get them for $230 bucks though, so either way it was a screaming deal.

I've done 10 days on the track with the stock suspension. I don't really feel the "floaty" you're talking about, but, to an extent suspension is subjective.

I think a good idea for you might be the KW DDC plug n play kit. They're adaptive coilovers that are a dirct PNP into the M235i Adaptive Suspension system. I was considering these before I realized I had bigger fish to fry before I go that route (although some day, maybe).

Check them out. Might be what you're looking for, and KW makes quality stuff.

Thanks for the feedback! Only issue with those KW's is the price is insane. The BC coilovers seem to have good reviews and are priced just under 1k. Issue is with the errors and all that jazz. I may email BC and see what they tell me.

UPDATE: Just emailed them, will see what they say.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Thanks for the feedback! Only issue with those KW's is the price is insane. The BC coilovers seem to have good reviews and are priced just under 1k. Issue is with the errors and all that jazz. I may email BC and see what they tell me.

UPDATE: Just emailed them, will see what they say.

KW prices are insane, I agree. However, the M235i adaptive suspension isn't cheap either, so if you want something at or above OEM quality, but with a different focus (MOAR HARD), then its going to be expensive.

However, if this is one of those things digging into your brain (everybody has their thing), you might be persuaded...

[Bee Pee]

OP,

BMW tend to have oem damping overdamped with stock springs and I think this may switch to sight underdamping when matched to H&R springs. Less noticeable when new but std dampers will wear quicker with shorter/stiffer springs and so now probably the underdamping is becoming more evident.

I have H&R sport springs, quaife LSD and hartge sway bars on m135i for about last 6k miles. Its sticks the road like chewed gum on a fur coat. Ride is a tad firmer in comfort and then firmer still in sport/sport+ mode but still very useable on the street. As time has gone on, I think the adaptive dampers have adapted well to these springs especially as I feel springs have softened slighty with use.

Have you played about with tyre pressures as a combo of lowered stance and low profile tyres makes the car sensitive to tyre pressures. I'm running cold pressures 36psi F and 39psi R and not experiencing any floatiness. Whilst I know the sway bars may add some resistance in pitch, yaw as well as roll, not sure this is your best solution.

KW DDC is a great solution but comes at a cost. You might want to try some upgraded dampers ie Bilstein B8 for example first to retain your H&R springs.

BP

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

OP,

BMW tend to have oem damping overdamped with stock springs and I think this may switch to sight underdamping when matched to H&R springs. Less noticeable when new but std dampers will wear quicker with shorter/stiffer springs and so now probably the underdamping is becoming more evident.

I have H&R sport springs, quaife LSD and hartge sway bars on m135i for about last 6k miles. Its sticks the road like chewed gum on a fur coat. Ride is a tad firmer in comfort and then firmer still in sport/sport+ mode but still very useable on the street. As time has gone on, I think the adaptive dampers have adapted well to these springs especially as I feel springs have softened slighty with use.

Have you played about with tyre pressures as a combo of lowered stance and low profile tyres makes the car sensitive to tyre pressures. I'm running cold pressures 36psi F and 39psi R and not experiencing any floatiness. Whilst I know the sway bars may add some resistance in pitch, yaw as well as roll, not sure this is your best solution.

KW DDC is a great solution but comes at a cost. You might want to try some upgraded dampers ie Bilstein B8 for example first to retain your H&R springs.

BP

Thanks man. Helps me too.

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

OP,

BMW tend to have oem damping overdamped with stock springs and I think this may switch to sight underdamping when matched to H&R springs. Less noticeable when new but std dampers will wear quicker with shorter/stiffer springs and so now probably the underdamping is becoming more evident.

I have H&R sport springs, quaife LSD and hartge sway bars on m135i for about last 6k miles. Its sticks the road like chewed gum on a fur coat. Ride is a tad firmer in comfort and then firmer still in sport/sport+ mode but still very useable on the street. As time has gone on, I think the adaptive dampers have adapted well to these springs especially as I feel springs have softened slighty with use.

Have you played about with tyre pressures as a combo of lowered stance and low profile tyres makes the car sensitive to tyre pressures. I'm running cold pressures 36psi F and 39psi R and not experiencing any floatiness. Whilst I know the sway bars may add some resistance in pitch, yaw as well as roll, not sure this is your best solution.

KW DDC is a great solution but comes at a cost. You might want to try some upgraded dampers ie Bilstein B8 for example first to retain your H&R springs.

BP

Interesting option, will look into it. What sway bars are you running?

[Bee Pee]

My cars chassis has been fettled by Birds BMW here in the UK.

I used H&R springs as I wanted to retain adaptive dampers for the time being as Birds had not yet developed their B1 spring/dampers yet.

I got the B1 package # 1 as noted in the link below.
http://www.birdsauto.com/tuning/sear...mi=M135i&pg=10

They do a B2 package #1 and # 2 for M235i
http://www.birdsauto.com/tuning/sear...mi=M235i&pg=10

Heres 2 write ups about their B4 chassis package their do for 3/4 series, which includes sway bars

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-d...i-review/30963
http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...tions-sep-2014

[Nuuze]

I went from 40-42psi to 36-38psi on my 19" with H&R springs and its a lot less bouncy/floaty feeling.

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by Nuuze

I went from 40-42psi to 36-38psi on my 19" with H&R springs and its a lot less bouncy/floaty feeling.

Gonna try that for starters.

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

My cars chassis has been fettled by Birds BMW here in the UK.

I used H&R springs as I wanted to retain adaptive dampers for the time being as Birds had not yet developed their B1 spring/dampers yet.

I got the B1 package # 1 as noted in the link below.
http://www.birdsauto.com/tuning/sear...mi=M135i&pg=10" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.birdsauto...135i&pg=10</a>

They do a B2 package #1 and # 2 for M235i
http://www.birdsauto.com/tuning/sear...mi=M235i&pg=10" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.birdsauto...235i&pg=10</a>

Heres 2 write ups about their B4 chassis package their do for 3/4 series, which includes sway bars

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-d...i-review/30963" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.pistonhea...view/30963</a>
http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...tions-sep-2014" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.birdsauto...s-sep-2014</a>

So you like the kit you have with the lsd and sways? Would you recommend it for the price? I've been very interested in sways and and LSD.

Is your car Manual? Did you get that clutch upgrade mentioned in the article? I'm super interested.

[BD_F22]

Check out Bilstein b14 coilovers.. Seem very affordable and might do the trick!

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by BD_F22

Check out Bilstein b14 coilovers.. Seem very affordable and might do the trick!

Will check them out. Thanks.

[hoppy6698]

After a day on the track this weekend, I think you may want to start small with sway bars. It was amazing how much they controlled the balance of my last A4 once installed. I do wish I experienced the sways before lowering my Audi, they made that much of a difference. I'm waiting for a few to be made for the M235 before upgrading sway bars.

On the track, the car is VERY sorted though, no floating. On the way home, it did feel a bit more floaty on the highway.

So my take on this floating: the car was made for more aggressive driving but soft enough for DD. When the suspension is loaded (in corners, under braking, or heavy acceleration), the car hooked up very well - I never felt at a loss. Punching out of the last corner into a long straight, hard on the gas, she tucked down and tracked out very cleanly. Improving the sway bars will make loading up the suspension quicker in transitions. Can't wait to get some

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

After a day on the track this weekend, I think you may want to start small with sway bars. It was amazing how much they controlled the balance of my last A4 once installed. I do wish I experienced the sways before lowering my Audi, they made that much of a difference. I'm waiting for a few to be made for the M235 before upgrading sway bars.

On the track, the car is VERY sorted though, no floating. On the way home, it did feel a bit more floaty on the highway.

So my take on this floating: the car was made for more aggressive driving but soft enough for DD. When the suspension is loaded (in corners, under braking, or heavy acceleration), the car hooked up very well - I never felt at a loss. Punching out of the last corner into a long straight, hard on the gas, she tucked down and tracked out very cleanly. Improving the sway bars will make loading up the suspension quicker in transitions. Can't wait to get some

Thanks for your opinion here. I am very interested in the aforementioned Bird kit, with the LSD and sway bars. I am waiting to hear back from them.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

After a day on the track this weekend, I think you may want to start small with sway bars. It was amazing how much they controlled the balance of my last A4 once installed. I do wish I experienced the sways before lowering my Audi, they made that much of a difference. I'm waiting for a few to be made for the M235 before upgrading sway bars.

On the track, the car is VERY sorted though, no floating. On the way home, it did feel a bit more floaty on the highway.

So my take on this floating: the car was made for more aggressive driving but soft enough for DD. When the suspension is loaded (in corners, under braking, or heavy acceleration), the car hooked up very well - I never felt at a loss. Punching out of the last corner into a long straight, hard on the gas, she tucked down and tracked out very cleanly. Improving the sway bars will make loading up the suspension quicker in transitions. Can't wait to get some

100% agree. I've had 10 days on the track with the M235i and I never felt the suspension was out of place. I thought it did a damn good job of being "adaptive" actually. I think the "adaptive" thing is just weird generally and gives people a bad feeling about the car -- like it can't possibly be that it is both compliant and well-sorted, but it is.

I think a few bits and bobs here and there could help optimize it for track/street use, but generally it is a wonderful suspension to start with. If it was my money, I'd stick with springs and sway bars (which is what I intend to do). Those adaptive dampers are way too good to just pitch for some non-adaptive coilovers imo.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

So you like the kit you have with the lsd and sways?

YES

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Would you recommend it for the price?

YES - I was a repeat customer so I got a deal that worked out QLSD + sways supplied and fitted for about same price as BMW MPLSD only supply and fit.

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Is your car Manual? Did you get that clutch upgrade mentioned in the article?

NO, my car is 8sp AT.

Also, my cars going back into Birds to have M3/M4 front lower control arms fitted - widens the front track slightly and adds more camber at the front, trying to save the softer outer shoulder on my 18" Mich PSS's !!!

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I think a few bits and bobs here and there could help optimize it for track/street use, but generally it is a wonderful suspension to start with. If it was my money, I'd stick with springs and sway bars (which is what I intend to do). Those adaptive dampers are way too good to just pitch for some non-adaptive coilovers imo.

Agree 100% - I use my cars as DD, dad's taxi, business road trips and occasional track days - adaptive dampers are querky in a good way. Combo of springs, LSD, sways and soon to be fitted F8x front LCA's will take it to where I want it to be. If/when these dampers wear out/fail, then I will have to think on whats next either replace with oem or coilovers - either way it aint gonna be cheap !

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by abirmaher

Will check them out. Thanks.

Sorry I keep making reference to UK based websites, but Litchfields are well respected outfit here in the UK. They have bilstein coilovers on their M235i demo car.

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/BMW/M235i

Its been getting some good press in the motoring media this side of the water, as an alternative to KW's

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

You might want to try some upgraded dampers ie Bilstein B8 for example first to retain your H&R springs.

Post below extracted from F30post thread on H&R/B8 review - v positive about H&R and B8 setup.....
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=87

[abirmaher]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

YES

YES - I was a repeat customer so I got a deal that worked out QLSD + sways supplied and fitted for about same price as BMW MPLSD only supply and fit.

NO, my car is 8sp AT.

Also, my cars going back into Birds to have M3/M4 front lower control arms fitted - widens the front track slightly and adds more camber at the front, trying to save the softer outer shoulder on my 18" Mich PSS's !!!

Thanks for all the info! I have contacted them and am waiting for a reply. I think this is going to be what I'm going to do next. As well as some of the upgrades to the manual transmission mentioned in one of those articles you linked. Coilovers or anymore like that can wait a bit longer.

I won't be doing this for a few months through but when I get it done ill be sure to post reviews and opinions as well.

Thanks for all your help!

[th1rd3y3]

The problem I'm seeing most of the time with many of the springs for these cars is they're designed for one thing. Looks. Look at the specs of the springs, if you can't find the spring rates, chances are they're only going to improve the looks. Sure it may "feel" like it handles better but in reality, I'd be surprised if it actually did.

Cheap coilovers are a great way to make you hate your car if you're daily driving it. I've played that game and once the "fun" wears off of "oooh new parts, car feels like a racecar!" and you have to spend hours on crappy roads with it, you'll very quickly regret it.

If you can't do it right, save until you can. Bilstein/KW/etc all cost more because they're worth more. Most of my friends thought I was insane when I spent $3600 on AST coilovers for my last car. Until they rode in the car, then they understood. The car handled amazingly but also wasn't punishing to commute with.